Steeles Royal

UWO student beaten

phail

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Aug 5, 2008
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drinkin your milkshake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQnU6-YXsSo

LONDON, Ont. - A startling video of a University of Western Ontario student being pummelled by half-a-dozen police officers drew condemnation from some of the tens of thousands of people who watched it online Thursday as school officials defended what they called a necessary use of force.

The one minute and 32 second video, posted on YouTube, shows the student being held down in a campus building hallway Wednesday. Campus police and officers from the London, Ont., force are seen kneeing the student aggressively in the torso, repeatedly beating him on the back with batons and punching him hard.

At least one officer is heard yelling "Stop resisting," and then, "Give us your arm."

Many in the online community reacted to the stark images with horror and anger, and the school's student council said some students were expressing concern that such a violent takedown occurred in their halls. But the school warned that the video does not tell the whole story.

The student, identified by London police as 22-year-old Irnes Zeljkovic, was "creating safety concerns" and had barricaded himself inside a room, said Elgin Austen, the head of campus police.

The incident began on the seventh and eighth floors of the social sciences building, well before the video was shot, and "eventually, everything came down to the main floor," where efforts were made to subdue a "disoriented individual," he said.

"What the officers were doing was trying to apprehend a strong individual ... and not injure that person and keep other people around safe," said Austen, who added he didn't see "anything out of order" with the level of force.

"It was being conducted consistent with the Ontario Police College and the training that officers have there."

While the video is "disturbing" the incident needs to be kept in context, said university spokeswoman Gitta Kulczycki.

The main concern of police was protecting students and faculty, she said.

"The view of the video itself is somewhat disturbing without knowing the context of the full situation."

Zeljkovic, described as about 6 foot 2 inches and more than 200 pounds, was taken to hospital for observation, then released into custody.

The London, Ont., resident was charged with mischief under $5,000, assaulting a peace officer, resisting arrest and escaping lawful custody and was released after a court appearance Thursday.

The incident has raised concerns among students at the school, student council spokeswoman Carolyn Hawthorn said in an interview.

"Students are reacting to what they've seen on the video and most are reacting with concern," Hawthorn. "We're encouraging students to review all the facts and to seek out the full information."

No students have come forward to say they're worried about their personal safety, said Hawthorn, who added it's clear the video doesn't tell the whole story.

The video had received more than 32,000 hits on YouTube by late-Thursday afternoon. Most postings criticized police for their use of force.

One comment posted on YouTube from mitchkocz03 writes "homeboy got Rodney King'd" - a reference to the beating of Rodney King by Los Angeles police in 1991, an incident also caught on video that triggered riots in the city.

Another identified as teenager17 said, "I agree, this looks frighteningly reminiscent of the Rodney King beating, though it probably didn't go on for as long."

Another viewer wrote: "After watching it several times, there's little doubt in my mind that the police used excessive force."

"There's no way that five cops should have to use the amount of excessive force they did to 'detain' this person. To take out a billyclub and senselessly beat someone you have pinned down seems completely unnecessary!" wrote dpoe89.

Still, others in the online community said they felt police were within their rights.

"The same people who will cry here about cops using some kind of force are the same morons who will ask 'where were the cops when the guy went crazy?' Smazz104 wrote on YouTube.

"Cops did their job."

A spokeswoman for the province's Special Investigations Unit, which probes incidents involving serious injury or death to members of the public involving the police, said the unit is not investigating the incident.

Kulczycki said the school conducts an automatic review in situations like these.

"We will certainly co-operate fully with London police as that occurs," she said.
 

Mia.Colpa

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Dec 6, 2005
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I saw it on the news and I found it to be excessive use by the police. 4 campus cops, then joined by 2 more for a total of 6 big cops trying to handcuff one young guy. Cops were repeatly kneeing and punching him on the ground while others were holding him down. Even if he was resisting and fighting back, my God can't 6 cops hold him down long enough to handcuff him? There was no need to keep kneeing and punching him. Disgraceful.
 

Toke

Just less active
Oct 14, 2002
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I saw it on the news and I found it to be excessive use by the police. 4 campus cops, then joined by 2 more for a total of 6 big cops trying to handcuff one young guy. Cops were repeatly kneeing and punching him on the ground while others were holding him down. Even if he was resisting and fighting back, my God can't 6 cops hold him down long enough to handcuff him? There was no need to keep kneeing and punching him. Disgraceful.
I dunno if I'd call it police brutality. You can't see how it began, but it is obvious that the first officers on the scene could not contain the suspect. I couple of kicks and punches were thrown, but to say he was pummeled is a stretch, IMHO. They were constantly telling him/her to 'stop resisting', and you could see him/her continue to resist.

I'm not shy to give my opinion as to excessive force, but if officers aren't able to act as these 4-6 did, then the other option is for increased taser or firearm use. This dude wasn't pummeled; required force was used.
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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Gee and to think that he neither stoped resisting, nor gave the arresting officers his arms. But of course that has nothing to do with the facts :rolleyes:
 

Plan B

Race Relations Expert
Jun 7, 2008
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Thank goodness the victim wasn't black...can you imagine the outrage that would have stemmed from Joe Citizen. The media would have had a field day. And if he was black he could have sued the police and gotten a nice settlement.
 

LateComer

Better Late than Never
Nov 8, 2002
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The guy was resisting and the cops did not give him what I would call a "beating". Nothing to see here. Move along.
 

university kid

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Jun 7, 2006
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They were screaming stop resisting because they were 100% aware they were being filmed. The officer who punched the aggressive student in the head about 8-12 times definitely used too much force.

If it takes 6 officers to subdue one 22 year old then they need much better training.

what an embarassment.
 

alexmst

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Dec 27, 2004
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At least they didn't taser him and kill him as a result. If one disallows tasers (as I have advocated) then one has to have a higher tolerance for brute force by police when used to subdue suspects. That said I agree that if it took six cops to subdue one man, they need better training on suspect takedowns and hand to hand combat.
 

nolabel

Wherever u go, there u r
Jan 7, 2009
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I am sure this sucked for the student doing the resisting, and I am also sure few of us really want to see cops taking someone down. But those suggesting 4-6 cops on 1 should have somehow meant no knees or no punches are just not recognizing actual self-defence training . . .

- The knees: notice how the knee motion is more of a push, not a sharp motion that ends abruptly? The latter involves real force being applied, the former does not. The knees are being pushed into pressure points, like the back of the resisters knees, to force the guy to be flat on the ground. You just cannot see from the bodies where the point-of-impact is, but the pushing motion indicates defence not attack.

- The punching: look at the video again. Notice how the punches all take place when the student has his arm/elbow keeping him off the floor? The student is trying to keep himself free to move his arms, legs, his bodyweight. But the cops are trying to flatten him - technically - onto the ground, so that he has no leverage point. The punches are all aimed at his latissimus muscles and his shoulders, to stop him from gaining leverage. I don't see any punches connecting with the head.

Bottom line: the police want him to lay flat. He's a big strong guy, probably agitated (some alcohol, etc?), and does not want to lay flat. So they play it safe, pile on him, and force him to lay flat. The knees are pushing his knees into the ground, and the punches are weakening his right arm holding him off the ground. Classic subduing method. Classic training. You might not like how it looks, but police are trained to subdue, and subduing does not look pretty.

We lack any further context than the video, but when an internal review looks at this, I bet they conclude "subduing" techniques. Beyond that is a bit speculative, lacking any other contextual information. Maybe some more evidence will shed some more light on it, but the video itself suggests subduing techniques. Again, subduing someone does not look pretty. The real world aint hollywood.

ps: not a police officer! not in law enforcement! just a bit of military training during undergrad years to recognize subduing when I see it.
 

moresex4me

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Mar 18, 2009
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Guys, I had a cop friend tell me it is nearly impossible to hand cuff someone actively resisting unless you have quite a few guys holding him down. Guy resisted, then got subdued. There really is nothing to see here, and judging by the fact the hospital didn't even admit him, seems that this "brutal" beating wasn't so brutal.
 

moresex4me

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Mar 18, 2009
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On a separate note, I went to Western, and know that hallway well. The alcove with the orange pillars behind the action used to be a smoking section. Am I dating myself a little?
 

tboy

resident smartass
Aug 18, 2001
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one witness to the arrest, who declined to be named, told CTV News that the student had not been violent prior to the arrest. "He didn't say much. He didn't try to hit anyone. He just seemed disoriented."
Just because someone hasn't been violent in their actions doesn't mean the cops shouldn't use force to take them into custody.....to disobey a lawful order by a cop only leads to an escalation of the force necessary to place one into custody......
 

canucklehead

Active member
Oct 16, 2003
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They were screaming stop resisting because they were 100% aware they were being filmed. The officer who punched the aggressive student in the head about 8-12 times definitely used too much force.

If it takes 6 officers to subdue one 22 year old then they need much better training.

what an embarassment.
Yes but if all of them grabbed his arm and either separated his shoulder or broke his arm it would have been worse for them... seriously if u do not want to give an arm and u r prepared to suffer .... you can hold out for a god two or three minutes.... seriously he kept resisting ....
 

Mia.Colpa

Persian Lover
Dec 6, 2005
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You think 6 security/cop men can't hold down only one student without resorting to kicking or punching him, don't care where or how you kick or punch him? :rolleyes:

I'm not condoning whatever the student did, he obviously deserved to be arrested, but come on, you really believe 6 guys can't arrest one guy by piling on and smothering him and each guy holding down each one of his limbs, please who are you kidding. This is a joke.
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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The Police can't win. If they tazer the student and he dies 'they overreacted', they spray him (in the hallway - enclosed space) and he or someone else has a serious reaction - closed airway 'they overreacted', so they do it the old fashion way six good guys on one bad guy and you guessed it they are accused of overreacting. :mad:
 

daty

on former TERB in 90's
Aug 18, 2001
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we only see and hear the final moments after he had baracaded himself in a room one or two floors above and been chased to this floor encountering and endagering how many youth ..... the two London officers had time to be dispatched and respond to the security officers request for aid and still took six to subdue him ..... this jerk was on some type of drug as booze was already ruled out ..... If someones child had been hurt the lynch mobs would be out in full force ..... this guy is NOT a victim but rather someone who has expressed civil disobedience ..... I say well done to campus police and a good response from London city force
 

daty

on former TERB in 90's
Aug 18, 2001
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You think 6 security/cop men can't hold down only one student without resorting to kicking or punching him, don't care where or how you kick or punch him? :rolleyes:

I'm not condoning whatever the student did, he obviously deserved to be arrested, but come on, you really believe 6 guys can't arrest one guy by piling on and smothering him and each guy holding down each one of his limbs, please who are you kidding. This is a joke.
were the six all "men"
 

The Oracle

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Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
Back in the old days he'd just be choked out and then easily handcuffed. But thats not politically correct anymore so is not an option.
Another point when trying to subdue a bad guy sometimes there can be too many chefs in the soup so to speak. Everybody gets pulling different directions and end up working against each other.
Two of these officers should have been able to control this guy fairly effectively and the punches and knees are unnecessary if you ask me.
All you have to do is pin the guy down with their weight and the bad guy will out of breath in a few minutes. Then easier to manipulate. It's not really that hard. Just takes training and experience.
 
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