I have no sympathy for them. I had to quickly change insurance companies when I wasn't given a reason why my premiums would've increased by 70% (I moved but they didn't even site that as a reason).fuck greedy insurance companies
Thanks!You don't really sue for auto damages when you're talking insurance in Ontario.
The whole No-fault thing is a very poorly worded term that's thrown around. The whole system would probably be a bit more understandable to people if it was called "regardless of fault"... as in regardless of fault your own insurance company pays for it all (they then have the right to subrogate on your behalf).
Typically when you're talking about two insured drivers getting into an accident the at fault party's collision pays for their own damage while the not at fault party's damage is paid for by a part of your policy called direct compensation for property damage (DCPD).
Assuming you are not at fault in an accident and the other party does not have insurance your damages are paid for by the uninsured motorist fund. Even though you aren't at fault you are still responsible for a $300 deductible as part of accessing this. Your insurance company will then try and recoup the cost of the damages (as well as your $300 bucks, although honestly fat chance...).
Given that the courts are only really going to award you the actual cash value (ACV... not the fabled blue or black book value, but rather your vehicle held up against the market of like kind and quality vehicles and in essence what your insurance company will award you for the value of your car should it be a write off) of the vehicle it would make little to no sense to sue the other party, which is kinda one of the big reasons why they brought in No-fault to start with.
Can you sue the other guy for other stuff, or even really if you pushed for it the damages to your car...? Probably, but you're going to spend more in time and money to in all likelyhood get less.
The three hundred dollar deductible sucks, but the reality is when you're talking about insurance claims its always a good idea to expect to pay a deductible because that is your retained risk, which is why its sometimes a good idea to bit the bullet on a bit more of a monthly fee to take a lower collision deductible as there are cases where even though you aren't at fault you may still have to pay your collision deductible (non Ontario insureds, hit and runs... ect). While you can choose to have a DCPD deductible this isn't common, so after investigation to make sure your claim can be processed under it you can either proceed DCPD (no deductible) or given the length of time it takes to get police reports in refund the collision deductible and then proceed DCPD.
FYI, and should be common knowledge, but if anyone is ever in an accident writing down license plates. Even if its not the car you directly hit the Ontario rules still allow you to "use" any other vehicle even tacitly involved in the accidents insurance in order to access DCPD (ie 3 car fender bender... even if your middle car and the guy behind you hits you and you and get pushed into someone.. provided you were stopped, you can access DCPD off the guy ahead of you even if the guy who caused it all is uninsured) . Since the car being insured is what matters (not the driver as they may not be licensed, insured on that vehicle, or whatever) the plate will give you everything else that your insurance company needs. Never trust the cops when they say your insurance company can just get the police report as while this is true it can take anywhere from a week to months for it to come in, in the mean time their left with no info on the other driver and thus can't do anything for you except put it through your coverages which means you're out of pocket.
Not saying don't grab the rest of the OP info if you can get it (and witness info), just start writing down plates ASAP in case the other guy takes off.
My pleasure.Thanks!
One small correction and one clarification required.You don't really sue for auto damages when you're talking insurance in Ontario.
The whole No-fault thing is a very poorly worded term that's thrown around. The whole system would probably be a bit more understandable to people if it was called "regardless of fault"... as in regardless of fault your own insurance company pays for it all (they then have the right to subrogate on your behalf).
Typically when you're talking about two insured drivers getting into an accident the at fault party's collision pays for their own damage while the not at fault party's damage is paid for by a part of your policy called direct compensation for property damage (DCPD).
Assuming you are not at fault in an accident and the other party does not have insurance your damages are paid for by the uninsured motorist fund. Even though you aren't at fault you are still responsible for a $300 deductible as part of accessing this. Your insurance company will then try and recoup the cost of the damages (as well as your $300 bucks, although honestly fat chance...).
Given that the courts are only really going to award you the actual cash value (ACV... not the fabled blue or black book value, but rather your vehicle held up against the market of like kind and quality vehicles and in essence what your insurance company will award you for the value of your car should it be a write off) of the vehicle it would make little to no sense to sue the other party, which is kinda one of the big reasons why they brought in No-fault to start with.
Can you sue the other guy for other stuff, or even really if you pushed for it the damages to your car...? Probably, but you're going to spend more in time and money to in all likelyhood get less.
The three hundred dollar deductible sucks, but the reality is when you're talking about insurance claims its always a good idea to expect to pay a deductible because that is your retained risk, which is why its sometimes a good idea to bit the bullet on a bit more of a monthly fee to take a lower collision deductible as there are cases where even though you aren't at fault you may still have to pay your collision deductible (non Ontario insureds, hit and runs... ect). While you can choose to have a DCPD deductible this isn't common, so after investigation to make sure your claim can be processed under it you can either proceed DCPD (no deductible) or given the length of time it takes to get police reports in refund the collision deductible and then proceed DCPD.
FYI, and should be common knowledge, but if anyone is ever in an accident writing down license plates. Even if its not the car you directly hit the Ontario rules still allow you to "use" any other vehicle even tacitly involved in the accidents insurance in order to access DCPD (ie 3 car fender bender... even if your middle car and the guy behind you hits you and you and get pushed into someone.. provided you were stopped, you can access DCPD off the guy ahead of you even if the guy who caused it all is uninsured) . Since the car being insured is what matters (not the driver as they may not be licensed, insured on that vehicle, or whatever) the plate will give you everything else that your insurance company needs. Never trust the cops when they say your insurance company can just get the police report as while this is true it can take anywhere from a week to months for it to come in, in the mean time their left with no info on the other driver and thus can't do anything for you except put it through your coverages which means you're out of pocket.
Not saying don't grab the rest of the OP info if you can get it (and witness info), just start writing down plates ASAP in case the other guy takes off.
You're right!One small correction and one clarification required.
Firstly it is not the uninsured motorist fund that pays when you are in a collision with an uninsured motorist (strangely enough). The SEF 44 (IIRC), or the uninsured coverage of your own policy pays. The fund is operated by the government and is for wholly different circumstances.
You can no longer sue for damage to your auto in court. I had an associate look into this for me recently and that is the answer he came back with. He is a pretty smart young fella so I expect he is right.
But you can see how challenging the system is when even someone who has extensive experience working in it misses a few details.
FSCO recently completed a five year review and the number one complaint from all the stakeholders and consulted parties was that the system was too complex, difficult to access and that there were way too many forms and the forms were poorly designed.
I suspect between the two of us we can handle any insurance questions that get thrown out.You're right!
In some of my answeres I was trying to be general enough that I wasn't putting everyone to sleep with too many details, but also strike a balance with being accurate.
As for the uninsured motorist fund, I blame all those stupid insurance institute exams that put more emphasys on finding some silly obscure wording difference as opposed to the right answer for making me want to just lump it all together into one big just take what's useful bundles (cause I can always research the rest as I need it), lol.
Also, I was not aware that the ability to sue for auto damage was outright barred now, I just knew, as I kida detailed, that it is a fairly costly and useless endeavour. I know in Quebec your right to sue is entirely legislated away, even for injuries. Perhaps Ontario should take the second step and adopt a more Quebec style of insurance (there are several differences) as it seems to be more successful for the system as a whole and a lot cheaper for the consumer.
Anyway, thanks for clarifying, as you said this can be a complex entity, so everyone please take my answers in the helpful spirit they are intended and not as gospel as I'm a little rusty and there's too much to remember, lol.
Honestly Supernatural, you could've fooled me that you're no expert. You have answered a lot of questions better than brokers I've talked too. Thanks again.My pleasure.
I worked in the industry for several years and the thing I honestly found was that very few people actually understand what their insurance does for them or how it works, yet are forced to pay large sums of money into it ever year/month without ever feeling like they get value for it.
I'm by no means an expert, but have seen and done a lot, so like I said earlier in the thread if anyone has any questions about claims or other insurance stuff keep 'em coming and I'll try my best to answer as sometimes people wind up getting burned not because they really did anything wrong, but because they didn't know the right way to explain something to their insurance company or just accepted what ther were told (for example it is NOT a rule that all parking lot accidents are automatically 50/50 for fault).
I had to get a broker to confirm insurance on one of my mother's vehicles as a letter from the MOT did advise that confirmation was required prior to sticker renewal. It was odd. I suppose they do check (or expect confirmation from the insurance company).Getting a sticker renewal without insurance....I once mis-typed my insurance policy number at one of the self serve kiosks...still got a sticker and then went in person a few days later to correct it.
If I didn't actually have an insurance policy, then I still had a sticker, and would have just been on my way. As I corrected the mistake, not sure if I would eventually have been sent a letter or caught up with later? as I am sure there is no real cross-checking?
See my reply above.Just renewed my plate sticker at the automated kiosk. It asked for my insurance company and policy # but how much verification is done to see if I actually put in a valid answer?
I don't know the answer as I have insurance, just wondering the same as you are.
My pleasure.Honestly Supernatural, you could've fooled me that you're no expert. You have answered a lot of questions better than brokers I've talked too. Thanks again.
Yes the letter I got from MTO said to bring proof of insurance when renewing (and when I used to go into the actual office to pick up the sticker they would ask to see my policy card maybe half the time). But when you do it through the automated kiosk it only asks for the info, there is no verification process (at that time anyways).I had to get a broker to confirm insurance on one of my mother's vehicles as a letter from the MOT did advise that confirmation was required prior to sticker renewal. It was odd. I suppose they do check (or expect confirmation from the insurance company).
Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. My insurance went up this year from 69.00 to 73.00 a month. I'm complaining about the increase...lolMy pleasure.
yet are forced to pay large sums of money into it ever year/month without ever feeling like they get value for it.
It really can depend as typically its a combo of things that can push people into facility.on a semi-related topic: how high is the high risk insurance? let's say you had a good record and were paying $2K a year and then got a few convictions (each less than 6 points) and your insurance company gives you the boot and you go to Facility.
Are you looking at about $4K/year with Facility?
Some people got off pretty lucky this last year, but as much as I don't think they are supposed to do it, a lot of people got hit hard with auto renewal rate increases to help cover the large losses some insurance companies took on the property side of things.Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. My insurance went up this year from 69.00 to 73.00 a month. I'm complaining about the increase...lol
I've been with Wawaneasa for about 15 years, perfect driving record, 4x4 1/2 ton truck 5.7l hemi, commerically insured downtown toronto. Here's the strange thing, I was thinking of changing my registration and insurane to my place up north, but was told that my insurance would probably not go down??Some people got off pretty lucky this last year, but as much as I don't think they are supposed to do it, a lot of people got hit hard with auto renewal rate increases to help cover the large losses some insurance companies took on the property side of things.
Sometimes there's some weird things that can happen in terms of where you live, and what you drive having outside factors change on them. For example from what I've been told for whatever reason the town of Goodwood Ontario has insruance rates comparable to some of the highest rated regions of Toronto. I'm sure that it was some kind of statistical anomaly that drove up their rates across the board. While everyone elses rates are going up, that original anomaly might have changed for them, this leading to either slight rate reductions, or lower rate increases where everyone else saw higher ones.
Car can be the same, as for the longest time Honda Civic's were one of the worst vehicles to insure. The things are extremely safe and great cars that a lot of people drive, but because they are one of the easiest to customize cars out there they were very appealing to young males which changed all of the accident benefit ratings on that car across the board for everyone. Here we are a few years later and the next "it" car for young guys might be something entirely different, so the accident benefit ratings on Civics might start to normalize.
The other thing could be is that insurance is a business and a competitive one at that. When its a buyers market some companies froze their rates in order to try and grab up business, whereas others tried to just hold the line so that they wouldn't burn all their new customers with massive rate increases later. Once the market changed all those lower priced companies jacked up their rates, while others got to keep going business as usual or with only slight changes, so maybe you picked a good company?
Without knowing anything about you, like your age, driving history, what you drive... ect, those are three reasons that come to me off the top of my head for why you did a little better on your renewal than most.
Typically direct writing companies are cheaper for insurance as you're essentially cutting out the middle man, but in you're case the fact that you are commerically insured is the kind of fly in that ointment as I know Belair doesn't write commercial insurance, and I don't think any of the banks do either. Its also going to make quote websites pretty useless to you as they are generally used for more "every day" drivers and not commercial policies which are sometimes written differently or custom tailored to the business.I've been with Wawaneasa for about 15 years, perfect driving record, 4x4 1/2 ton truck 5.7l hemi, commerically insured downtown toronto. Here's the strange thing, I was thinking of changing my registration and insurane to my place up north, but was told that my insurance would probably not go down??
