Unbreakable Baseball Record

[RTRD]

Nope...

Joe D.'s 56 game hitting streak.

...will be done. Just takes the right amount of luck by the right guy.

Look at how many players have gotten to 40+...if any of those guys had a bit more luck (and maybe a bit of a different personality because I am sure you tighten up) the record would already be broken.

 

[RTRD]

Exactly...

.400 is possible. Remember Tony Gwynn hitting .394 one year? I think George Brett hit like .390 one year also. When it is that close, it just comes down to 2 or 3 basehits that didn't drop.

Never cared for hitting streaks as much. Thought it was overrated. It is for guys who aren't patient and don't walk a lot, thuse more chances.

Carew, Brett, Gwynn, Larry Walker and Suzuki all have hit over .370, and as you say, it is just a FEW more hits beyond that.

Someone will hit .400 again. It will not be easy, and I am not saying .400 will become the new .300. Hell...it might not be until 2011, and then not again until 2081. But someone will do it.

 

[homonger]

It's tough to say which records are untouchable--so much has to do with how the game continues to evolve.

As mentioned, the way the game is played today, there would appear to be no way any of the pitching records could be broken. And it would appear nowadays all hitting records are up for grabs.

But go back to the late 60's when pitching was dominant. You had Denny McClain winning 31 games, you had Bob Gibson with an ERA of 1.12. The 1968 AL batting champ, Carl Yastrzemski, hit only .301. At that moment in time, it would have seemed ridiculous to speculate that anyone could hit .400 or break Babe Ruth's HR record.

 

[stever]

That is so true. Another factor is the new ballparks which are so offence friendly. The new ballpark in Detroit actually moved the fences in after the first year since players were complaining that it was tough to score.

 

[Toronto Passions]

That is so true. Another factor is the new ballparks which are so offence friendly. The new ballpark in Detroit actually moved the fences in after the first year since players were complaining that it was tough to score.

And Juan González hated it!

 

[RTRD]

I understand what you are saying...

It's tough to say which records are untouchable--so much has to do with how the game continues to evolve.

As mentioned, the way the game is played today, there would appear to be no way any of the pitching records could be broken. And it would appear nowadays all hitting records are up for grabs.

But go back to the late 60's when pitching was dominant. You had Denny McClain winning 31 games, you had Bob Gibson with an ERA of 1.12. The 1968 AL batting champ, Carl Yastrzemski, hit only .301. At that moment in time, it would have seemed ridiculous to speculate that anyone could hit .400 or break Babe Ruth's HR record.

...and in principle you are right. Intellectually, I get your point.

However...

Yaz won the AMERICAN LEAGUE batting title that year with his .301. Pete Rose won the MLB title with .335. Year before? Roberto Clemente - .357. Year after? Pete Rose....348. When Denny McClain won those 31 games, Pete Rose was hitting .335....at the same time Gibson had that 1.12 ERA. The lowest MLB batting title was Tommy Davis' .326 in 1963. A long way from .400 to be sure....but he hit .346 the year before, and Clemente hit .339 the year after. If Gwynn had gotten THREE more hits in 1994, he would have had it. Brett came 5 hits short in 1980. Carew need 7 more hits in 1977. Larry Walker missed by 9 in 1999 (he hit .379 that year). One more hit per week? Shit, we are talking one more hit per MONTH!! It will happen....

There have always (well, until very recent times) been individual pitchers who were dominant. Even during the recent steroids era you had Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez all with ERAs consistently below 2.50.

But the truth is that except for hardcore baseball fans like you, me and a few other guys in this thread, people don't like 2-1 pitchers duals. I LOVE them...people don't. As a result, MLB has always been prepared to change the rules (formally or informally) to provide more offense...lower the mound, juice the ball...shrink the strike zone. Turn the other way while guys morph into 250 lbs gorillas...

Denny McClain, the last guy to win 30 games...did it ONCE. It hasn't been done since...and had not been done prior that point for 30+ years (Lefty Grove - 1931, Dizzy Dean - 1934). Now...think about that, then think about how if a guy won 30 games for FIFTEEN STRAIGHT YEARS....he'd be 50 wins short of 500...

Again, philosophically, you are right, intellectually, you are right. But let's get real here....it ain't gonna happen.

 

[homonger]

Dammit, I hate it when guys use actual facts to refute my arguments

Believe me, I don't think Cy Young's win record is going down. I actually agree with you, we are more likely to see a .400 hitter in the near future than a 30 game winner. All I'm saying, and I think you agree, is that these things have a way of going in cycles.

 

[Toronto Passions]

Ryan and his strikeout record will never go down either. I'm not taking anything away from the express either. Regardless of the 3-4 man rotation he started with, he is still the hardest throwing pitcher of all time. People will say other things though. The most popular one is, "well guys throw over 100 mph all the time." This as they complain how the record books fail to see that others have come that fast too.

One simple yet weird explanation- Sports radar gun technology advancement!

The "Ray Gun" of the era before the eary 80's - gunned Ryan and his record (VS) the "juggs gun" after that era.

The ray gun was what clocked Ryan as the record holder. That gun clocked the speed as it crossed the plate. The average fastball drops between 4-8 mph from the time it leaves the hand to crossing the plate.

The modern Juggs gun takes the speed as it leaves the hand in its flight path.

With the emergance of the net, this is yet another lost fact in regards to pitch speed. Guiness world records seems to be the only record book, or stat record that can see that for what it is. So as freaky as this may sound, by todays standards at clocking pitch speed, Ryan and his 101 mph, could have easily been 105 mph to 109 mph. ( No wonder batters would shake in their cleats.)

Ok. Enough of my baseball nerd talk. What a game tonight. The Cards have heart.

 

[Ripper Gripper]

Nolan Ryan's 7 no hitters.

 

[Toronto Passions]

And all the walks he gave up during each one.

Just kidding. I find it pretty amazing that he threw 2 of them in his 40's. Then again, he probably got stronger in his 40's. He for sure got tougher (fighting at 46!), as Mr Robin Ventura knows all to well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIFF18cRM58

Lol. That is a classic clip. Nolan was nearly twice his age at the time! And this is weird. What a HUGE coincidence!!! As I place that fighting link here, sportsnet on my TV just showed the top 5 sports fighting countdown with this same footage as number 5. Very strange if I may say so. What are the odds? This calls for 1 more Ryan footage throwing a 5th inning in 1981 as an Astro. His 12-6 curve was pretty good too when it was working.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iQtNf3SADc

 

[K Douglas]

Dammit, I hate it when guys use actual facts to refute my arguments

Believe me, I don't think Cy Young's win record is going down. I actually agree with you, we are more likely to see a .400 hitter in the near future than a 30 game winner. All I'm saying, and I think you agree, is that these things have a way of going in cycles.

I disagree. The last time we saw .400 was in 1941, I think Bob Welch from Oakland won 30 games back in the late 80's.
I do concur though no one is touching 511 career wins. That's like 25 wins a year for over 20 years. Just not happenin.

 

[frankcastle]

There are probably some unbreakable records for good pitchers who were also good hitters. Don't know any off the top of my head but again that's another unbreakable record as a result of changes in the game.

 

[maurice93]

Ryan and his strikeout record will never go down either. I'm not taking anything away from the express either. Regardless of the 3-4 man rotation he started with, he is still the hardest throwing pitcher of all time. People will say other things though. The most popular one is, "well guys throw over 100 mph all the time." This as they complain how the record books fail to see that others have come that fast too.

One simple yet weird explanation- Sports radar gun technology advancement!

The "Ray Gun" of the era before the eary 80's - gunned Ryan and his record (VS) the "juggs gun" after that era.

The ray gun was what clocked Ryan as the record holder. That gun clocked the speed as it crossed the plate. The average fastball drops between 4-8 mph from the time it leaves the hand to crossing the plate.

The modern Juggs gun takes the speed as it leaves the hand in its flight path.

With the emergance of the net, this is yet another lost fact in regards to pitch speed. Guiness world records seems to be the only record book, or stat record that can see that for what it is. So as freaky as this may sound, by todays standards at clocking pitch speed, Ryan and his 101 mph, could have easily been 105 mph to 109 mph. ( No wonder batters would shake in their cleats.)

Ok. Enough of my baseball nerd talk. What a game tonight. The Cards have heart.

At the end of the day, Nolan Ryan is still the most overrated athlete in the history of American sport.

Hall of famer barely - But borderline accomplishments. He's no more accompluished then Bert ZBlylevem He got too much praise for the way he got guys out = who the fuck cares how you get outs. He was one wild pitcher for most of his career.

Nolan Ryan was named one of the top five pitchers of all time, when MLB did there best ever a few years back. That was absolutely ridiculous... he is not one of the top 50 pitchers ever.

 

[RTRD]

No....

I disagree. The last time we saw .400 was in 1941, I think Bob Welch from Oakland won 30 games back in the late 80's.
I do concur though no one is touching 511 career wins. That's like 25 wins a year for over 20 years. Just not happenin.

...he did not.

Last 30 game winner was Denny McLain in 1968. Welch won 27 in 1990. The most since then has been 24 by Randy Johnson and John Smoltz (once each). Before Welch's 27 there was Carlton in 1972 with 27. Several 24 win seasons sprinkled in there...a couple 25 wins seasons (remember Ron Guidry's one good year?)...but the WALL is 27, and that has only been done twice since McLain's 31 in 1968.

By comparison, 10 DIFFERENT guys have hit .370 or better since Williams hit .400...and the difference between .370 and .400 (roughly 10 to 15 hits depending on the number of at bats) is a lot closer than the difference between 27 wins and 30.

Unless you disagree...which do you think is closer....3 to 9 hits out of 450 to 600 at bats (1% to 2% increase for the four guys I cited...Gwyn, Brett, Carew, Walker) or 3 wins out of 35 to 40 starts (7% to 10% increase)?

Just because the last person to do it was 1941 doesn't mean it cannot be done. The last person to win 30 games was 1934 (like I had said). And a lot more people have come close to .400 since than have come close to 30 wins.

 

[maurice93]

I disagree. The last time we saw .400 was in 1941, I think Bob Welch from Oakland won 30 games back in the late 80's.
I do concur though no one is touching 511 career wins. That's like 25 wins a year for over 20 years. Just not happenin.

Bob Welch won 27. I think Doctor K and Roger have won 24, but that is as close as anybody has come since 1980.

Denny Mclain was the last pitcher to win 30... that was in 1968... WHEN THEY HAD FOUR MAN ROTATIONS Until they get 4 man rotationms againg (which will likely never happen), nobody will win 30 out of 34 or 35 starts. Nobody.


As for hitting .400 - Gwynn hit .394 in the strike shortened season. I think it will happen - get a good hitter at Coors Field where singles are much, much more common because fielders have to play back... it will happen.

 

[scouser1]

I am sorry but every sports record before the 1950's is completely useless and a joke, thats when you had finally some sort of level playing field between blacks and whites in the sports world