What Petraeus said made sense to you????! Wtf? Any attack on Russia by America, conventional or not, no matter the target, no matter the reason would result in an all out world war. What Petraeus said was fucking crazy and not a policy of America nor NATO. You people are out of your fucking skulls to even post something so moronic. I'll tell, what is going to happen if Russia goes all out, ABC or not. Nothing. Because the alternative is unthinkable.
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Wait, we could just stop and agree to disagree? No fighting to the death. No ROTFLMAO? On the internet. Seems kinda wrong brah.
Also you mentioned sources. I have better sources but they are very hard to find on line and alas I sold those books ages ago. I didn't pick the google fu lifestyle, the google fu lifestyle chose me.
As for Westmoreland, kinda sounds like he is saying the US doesn't lose wars, they lose interest.
There is a scene from Good Will Hunting where Ben Afleck's character says the highlight of his say is when he goes to pick Will up and he hopes he won't answer the door [because he decided to use his talents instead of doing grunt work]
I kinda am feeling that right now. I go on the thread and I hope for something, but it doesn't happen.
At least there is @DinkleMouse. Whats his face should be more like Dinklemouse and less not like Dinklemouse.
Doesn't matter if it does or doesn't, it illustrates that there are options other than responding in kind.
However if we are expected to clutch our pearls and whine in unison every time Russia does something because they have nukes, shouldn't Poutine do the same thing. A point I've made multiple times.
If Poutine plays stupid games [which I seriously doubt he will] and he starts losing assets on the high seas [and the African American sea] what is his option, launching nukes at the US, he does not have the military strength to do anything else. That is a suicide move, he launches nukes, he gets hit back. Considering the lower readiness levels of his nukes even in the best of estimates both in launching and and the detonating and the damage done from decades of corruption, have the wiring perhaps been sold off for vodka by anyone from a private to a general, the fuel sold off, the communication links to the silos etc and considering NATO is actually much bigger and more spread out, we would be seriously hurt, the Russians would be fucked up many times worse.
You said NATO wouldn't do shit if Russia uses tactical nukes, it seems your thesis is based on because Russia has loads of strategic nukes. Well I counter that if Naval assets start getting sunk beyond the 12 mile limit on international waters, if NATO assets start fucking Russian gear ON Ukraine clay, what will Russia do. Absolutely nothing, because
Because we've got the bombs, okay?
John Wayne's not dead, he's frozen
And as soon as we find a cure for cancer
We're gonna thaw out the Duke, and he's gonna be pretty pissed off
You know why?
Have you ever taken a cold shower?
Well, multiply that by fifteen million times
That's how pissed off the Duke's gonna be
I'm gonna get the Duke, and John Cassavetes
And Lee Marvin, and Sam Peckinpah, and a case of whiskey
And drive down to Ukraine and...
The difference is we can fuck with Russia without crossing the nuclear threshold, they can't fuck with us without going full potato.
And for Poutine to go full potato because of conventional attacks that are not even on Russian clay would be an insane and extreme overreaction.
"There are essentially six options. One, ignore it, two, file a protest, three, issue a statement condemning it, four, cut off aid, five, sever diplomatic relations, six, declare war. Now, if we ignore it, we tacitly acknowledge it, if we file a protest it'll be ignored, if we issue a statement it will seem weak, we can't cut off aid because we're not giving any, if we sever relations we risk losing the oil contract and if we declare war... people might just think we're overreacting." [for an African leader giving an incendiary speech.
Smashing gear outside of Russia for them using tactical nukes and breaking the international bro code is far from overreacting. Going full nuclear potato in response to losing assets outside of the country because you broke the international bro code would be even more of an overreaction.
Lol
Westmoreland: "The US lost."
You: "It doesn't sound like Westmoreland is saying the US lost."
NotADoctor but clearly also NotAHistorian.
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I’d like to thank all Canadian taxpayers for helping killing Russian scum. Even if your head is full of maga or tankie bullshit, you are still helping! Thank you all!
Strelkov predicting a coup attempt by Prigozhin this summer.
Prigozhin appears to be maneuvring in that very direction. Muzhiki, maybe the conversation is changing?!
Ukraine Sent Poor, Untrained Men Into Bakhmut Meat Grinder to Save Better Forces for Counteroffensive - News From Antiwar.com
Ukraine sent untrained recruits into the battle of Bakhmut to save its professional soldiers for an expected counteroffensive, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday. The Journal spoke with men who were part of a small group that was sent into Bakhmut, which became known as the meat grinder...
Ukraine Sent Poor, Untrained Men Into Bakhmut Meat Grinder to Save Better Forces for Counteroffensive
One man told The Wall Street Journal that he had never held a gun before he was sent into the battle
by Dave DeCamp Posted on May 25, 2023Categories NewsTags Russia, Ukraine
The Journal spoke with men who were part of a small group that was sent into Bakhmut, which became known as the meat grinder, just a few days after being mobilized.
Out of 16 men in the group of draftees, 11 were either killed or captured. The Journal described them as “mostly poor men from villages in the northeastern Kharkiv region, many of them unemployed, doing odd jobs as handymen or shift work at factories in the regional capital.”
Image: EPA/EFE
Some of the men had military training years or decades ago, but none had combat experience. A few of them threatened to refuse orders when they were told they were being sent to the frontlines on February 21, citing a lack of training, but they ultimately went.
One man, Vladyslav Yudin, told the Journal that he told a sergeant major that he had never fired or even held a gun before. “Bakhmut will teach you,” Yudin was told.
The men participated in brutal house-to-house combat in Bakhmut. Many of them are presumed dead, but their families are still holding out hope that they were captured by the Russians and are still alive.
The men’s accounts match what Ukrainians fighting on the frontlines had been telling the media while the battle was still raging. They told stories of troops being sent in with little support, training, or ammunition.
The Washington Post spoke to a Ukrainian battalion commander in March who said he was being sent fresh recruits who didn’t want to fire their guns because they were afraid of the sound.
Despite Kyiv’s Western backers advising against expending resources on Bakhmut, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tried to hold onto the city for as long as he could, but it was fully captured by the Wagner Group and Russian forces this past weekend.
Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin estimated that 50,000 Ukrainians lost their lives fighting for the city, but the number is not confirmed. Prigozhin also said that he recruited 50,000 people from prison to fight in Bakhmut and about 20% of them were killed.
Check out the pic in the response!
Asbestos fingers, amber protective glasses for soldering and no solder! And yeah, soldering a motherboard in a veterinary clinic!
Yup, Russian-grade propaganda!
Asbestos fingers, amber protective glasses for soldering and no solder! And yeah, soldering a motherboard in a veterinary clinic!
Yup, Russian-grade propaganda!
But if Russia had insufficient trained forces to both take Bakhmut and defend against a proposed Ukrainian counter-offensive, why did they persist in trying to take Bakhmut with incapable, untrained troops who suffered massive casualties due to battlefield incompetence?Ukraine Sent Poor, Untrained Men Into Bakhmut Meat Grinder to Save Better Forces for Counteroffensive - News From Antiwar.com
Ukraine sent untrained recruits into the battle of Bakhmut to save its professional soldiers for an expected counteroffensive, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday. The Journal spoke with men who were part of a small group that was sent into Bakhmut, which became known as the meat grinder...news.antiwar.com
Ukraine Sent Poor, Untrained Men Into Bakhmut Meat Grinder to Save Better Forces for Counteroffensive
One man told The Wall Street Journal that he had never held a gun before he was sent into the battle
by Dave DeCamp Posted on May 25, 2023Categories NewsTags Russia, Ukraine
The Journal spoke with men who were part of a small group that was sent into Bakhmut, which became known as the meat grinder, just a few days after being mobilized.
Out of 16 men in the group of draftees, 11 were either killed or captured. The Journal described them as “mostly poor men from villages in the northeastern Kharkiv region, many of them unemployed, doing odd jobs as handymen or shift work at factories in the regional capital.”
Image: EPA/EFE
Some of the men had military training years or decades ago, but none had combat experience. A few of them threatened to refuse orders when they were told they were being sent to the frontlines on February 21, citing a lack of training, but they ultimately went.
One man, Vladyslav Yudin, told the Journal that he told a sergeant major that he had never fired or even held a gun before. “Bakhmut will teach you,” Yudin was told.
The men participated in brutal house-to-house combat in Bakhmut. Many of them are presumed dead, but their families are still holding out hope that they were captured by the Russians and are still alive.
The men’s accounts match what Ukrainians fighting on the frontlines had been telling the media while the battle was still raging. They told stories of troops being sent in with little support, training, or ammunition.
The Washington Post spoke to a Ukrainian battalion commander in March who said he was being sent fresh recruits who didn’t want to fire their guns because they were afraid of the sound.
Despite Kyiv’s Western backers advising against expending resources on Bakhmut, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tried to hold onto the city for as long as he could, but it was fully captured by the Wagner Group and Russian forces this past weekend.
Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin estimated that 50,000 Ukrainians lost their lives fighting for the city, but the number is not confirmed. Prigozhin also said that he recruited 50,000 people from prison to fight in Bakhmut and about 20% of them were killed.
Surely the appropriate way was to delay attempting to take Bakhmut and to train all their infantry up to an appropriate standard of capability. The Russians are dum-dums.
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