UFC 61 Bitter Rivals - Ortiz vs. Shamrock

[Manji]

As for the fight between Lidell and Silva. I say make it a 3 fight event. One time with UFC rules, and the other with Pride rules. Do you know how much you could draw for events like that? I mean logically each would win in their respective leagues. Then put it to a fan poll or something to have the third and final fight in either UFC or Pride fighting rules. The fan decide, and the fighter who wins not only gets the huge payload, but bragging rights in the whole world of mixed martial arts. I don't know, just a thought. Where is Don King when you need him? LOL

I don't think Pride and UFC would go for it.....
If the first fight becomes a blow out for one of the fighters or just ends being a non-entertaining fight (for whatever reason) it would affect the hype of the other two fights....And the first and second fights become a blow out for one fighter (or becomes a non-entertaining fight); nobody will want to see a third fight.....


Not to mention these two organizations hardly work together and it took them forever just to arrange a fight between them.....


Silva has a three contract fight with UFC, so it is a good bet that Lidell will fight Silva again......I could see them fighting again on Silva's third UFC fight....



Another question is what if Silva wins the Open Weight category......Doesn't that mean he is set up to fight Fedor?

What happens to that fight?

 

[Thousand]

Well, Wandy still have to beat Cro cop and to beat the winner of the match between Josh and Nogueira in order to advance to fight Fedor. Due to the weight disadvantage, Wandy will not have a chance to fight Fedor.

 

[iluvquarks]

Highly doubt Silva will get by Crocop, never mind the grand prix. I think not enough people are giving Babalu a chance against Chuck though. Wonder what happens if Babalu pulls an upset? I'd like to see Wandy avenge his loss to Tito too, as that fight was six years ago and very close, including Tito running like a little girl to get away from him. Even with the supposed bad style match up Tito is for Wandy, he'd have to do more than beat an over the hill Shamrock to impress me. Quick note that Shamrock's combined Pride and UFC record is ... 8-8-1. Not that impressive and makes me wonder why there was so much hype for the Tito/Shamrock fight.

 

[PHNINE]

The hype generated for the Ortiz/Shamrock fight was only there because they absolutely hated each other. With Ortiz beating him to a pulp the first time, Shamrock came out gaurenteeing he would win the second match. This is all hype generating. Not to mention Dana White picking them to lead the teams for the Ultimate Fighter 3 season. All of this went into one huge shit storm of hype, that ended up making the whole UFC franchise look stupid with abrupt outcome. In my honest opinion this tarnished the UFC brand for me, and I think many others that followed this league. Let's hope they can make it up to us with some good fights in the near future.

 

[Thousand]

Quick note that Shamrock's combined Pride and UFC record is ... 8-8-1. Not that impressive and makes me wonder why there was so much hype for the Tito/Shamrock fight.

Ken Shamrock is the world most dangerous man. There is no lie to this statement. In his prime, he could pull off a submission move that you never even thought such submission move was possible. Like when he fought Bas Rutten and won the King of Pancrase, he took Bas's leg and just putting it into a leg bar. Bas submitted within seconds. Afterward, Bas mentioned in an interview that he never felt such pain in his life.

As well, Shamrock's MMA record is 26 - 11 - 2. He has fought many good fighters. Just to name a few: Royce Gracie, Dan Severn, Bas Rutten, Maurice Smith, Kimo Leopoldo, and Don Frye. He has beaten most of them as well.

However, I have to admit Ken Shamrock has passed his prime and he shouldn't be fighting anymore. The whole Tito/Shamrock fight was just pure hype.

 

[Choron]

Babaulu and chuck is going to be the hell of a fight...

 

[Manji]

Ken Shamrock is the world most dangerous man. There is no lie to this statement. In his prime, he could pull off a submission move that you never even thought such submission move was possible. Like when he fought Bas Rutten and won the King of Pancrase, he took Bas's leg and just putting it into a leg bar. Bas submitted within seconds. Afterward, Bas mentioned in an interview that he never felt such pain in his life.

As well, Shamrock's MMA record is 26 - 11 - 2. He has fought many good fighters. Just to name a few: Royce Gracie, Dan Severn, Bas Rutten, Maurice Smith, Kimo Leopoldo, and Don Frye. He has beaten most of them as well.

However, I have to admit Ken Shamrock has passed his prime and he shouldn't be fighting anymore. The whole Tito/Shamrock fight was just pure hype.

Its not just that Ken is past his prime.....He's a fighter of a different era.....As are all the above mentioned fighters.

Those guys were great for their time but MMA was still in its infancy when these guys were fighting.... (MMA - Mixed Martial Arts was not even part of the vocabulary back then ....)

For the most part, the fighters of that era excelled in one aspect of the fight game....Whether it was just Jiu-Jitsu, or just Submission Wrestling or just kickboxing.....Fighters didn't really mix fighting styles back then and eventually cross training fight techniques started as the UFC started to progress....

The current generation of fighters have learned from the mistakes of their predecessors and turned MMA into a science....Crossing training in all aspects of fighting....
For instance a Jiu-Jitsu specialist will also add wrestling to to expand his ground game as well as adding Boxing and Muay Thai to fight standing up competently (or better) .....

Shamrock is just a submission wrestler; and it was just too late for him to expand his game.....He couldn't adjust as the game changed....You can't teach an old dog new tricks.....

A young Ken probably wouldn't be able to beat Tito because Shamrock would still be a one dimensional fighter.....

 

[micheljrc]

UFC sucks now. Too many damm rules. I especeially hate the one where you can't kick or knee the guy in the head if he's on his knees.

You also can't choke unless it's a siily submission. I also find as well that too many of these guys now go for a submission when all they have to do is drop the forearm or elbow 5-6 times to MAKE the opponent tap.

UFC sucks.

I remember some of the early UFC matches when they were just starting up and the money was crap, but they had no rules, you can break a guy's arm and pound him forever, it was great... blood all over the place.. now it's more like WWF than anything else....