Turkey on Israel: All bark and no bite

[fuji]

There is a new flotilla en route from Turkey to Gaza, due to be intercepted by IDF as usual (http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=244163).

Back in September the Turkish PM claimed that in the future Turkish naval ships would escort any flotillas to Gaza (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/09/world/europe/09briefs-Turkey.html).

Even one of our local resident anti-Israel pundits from Denmark thought so too:

The turkish PM has said that next time, the turkish navy will escort the blokade breakers. It would create quite a conundrum for Nato, if the Israeli navy engaged the turkish navy.

But it looks to me like Turkey is all bark and no bite. No promised naval escort to the flotilla. No promised filling of charges against Israel at the ICC (http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=237189). No promised application to the ICJ to rule on the legality of the blockade (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/09/201193221927677385.html).

 

[fuji]

I think what's going on here is that Erdogan shot off his mouth without consulting his people. When he did consult them his lawyers let him know that Turkey would lose at the ICC and the ICJ, his ambassadors told him that no country would support Turkey in a war against Israel, and his generals told him that Turkey would lose.

All bark and no bite.

 

[red]

you think he spoke with lawyers about this? LMAO

 

[fuji]

you think he spoke with lawyers about this? LMAO

If he went and announced that Turkey was going to initiate two separate international court actions and then never even bothered to engage any international law lawyers.... well then he REALLY is all bark and no bite.

What was he planning to do, write the promised ICC and ICJ briefs himself?

 

[Aardvark154]

I think what's going on here is that Erdogan shot off his mouth without consulting his people. When he did consult them his lawyers let him know that Turkey would lose at the ICC and the ICJ

Yes I suspect that you are entirely correct.

his ambassadors told him that no country would support Turkey in a war against Israel, and his generals told him that Turkey would lose

Well I suspect that his ambassadors told him that no states that counted would support Turkey and many of the states that Turkey thinks count would not. Further, that his Generals and Admirals told him that the military wouldn't support him.

 

[shapeup1]

Even one of our local resident anti-Israel pundits from Denmark thought so too:

But it looks to me like Turkey is all bark and no bite. No promised naval escort to the flotilla. No promised filling of charges against Israel at the ICC No promised application to the ICJ to rule on the legality of the blockade

How dare you talk like that of Gryfin's hero? Gryfin was foaming at the mouth when this shit was going down, remember when he was gloating that Merdogan was going to land in Gaza like the Pope was gonna come? ROTFLMAO
But Merdogan didn't show up.......not only.. he also got shit in the Turkish newspapers for caring more about the Pals. then his own people that were suffering thru an earthquake. But also accepted aid from the Israelis......so now with his Rooster crest lowered.....he is a little more humble....

 

[basketcase]

I found the earthquake rescue amusing as well that he crowed in the media about refusing Israeli aid then the fact that Israel has probably the best emergency rescue crews caused him to quietly invite them in.

Sort of like him going on about the rights of the Palestinians while conducting his own war against his own separatist terror groups and the civilians they claim to represent.

 

[groggy]

This flotilla decided to sneak out, to avoid the sabotage and political interference the last flotilla ran into.
They are not operating as government representatives, but should Israel act the bully again we'll see how the governments react.

As for the ICC, give it time, I know you're in a rush to see Israel on trial, Fuji, but trials take a while.

 

[shapeup1]

I found the earthquake rescue amusing as well that he crowed in the media about refusing Israeli aid then the fact that Israel has probably the best emergency rescue crews caused him to quietly invite them in.

Sort of like him going on about the rights of the Palestinians while conducting his own war against his own separatist terror groups and the civilians they claim to represent.

He is highly hypocritical, he mouths off about the Palestinians and that he is the great savior but on the other hand he butchers the Kurds that are trying to get their own state. None of the Arabs say nothing and let it continue because its not Israel/Jews doing it. Arabs/muslims have been killing each other for years....

 

[fuji]

This flotilla decided to sneak out, to avoid the sabotage and political interference the last flotilla ran into.

Sorry, you lose, it did not sneak out. It was escorted out of Turkish water by the Turkish coast guard. The Turkish military vessels made a conscious decision not to keep following it once it left Turkish waters.

You fail completely.

 

[fuji]

As for the ICC, give it time

It's been well over a year since Erdogan said he would file a case at the ICC. What's taking so long?

Hint: He hasn't got a case, and has been told so by his lawyers. Israel would actually have to do something illegal for a case at the ICC to be viable...

 

[groggy]

It's been well over a year since Erdogan said he would file a case at the ICC. What's taking so long?

Hint: He hasn't got a case, and has been told so by his lawyers. Israel would actually have to do something illegal for a case at the ICC to be viable...

They've got a report by ex ICC judges saying that Israel did plenty of things wrong.
There is most definitely a case.

 

[fuji]

They've got a report by ex ICC judges saying that Israel did plenty of things wrong.
There is most definitely a case.

LOL, that report is based on obsolete and outdated information, the judge who wrote it has since said that the latest information shows it's wrong and has exonerated Israel. Good luck!

You and sand flea may think the report has merit, but no serious person will, certainly not an ICC prosecutor. They're likely to take note of Goldstone's comment.

 

[rld]

The flotillas should never be allowed to land. Unless the blockade is lifted, but then flotillas wouldn't go as no publicity for their cause would be generated. I would be fine if Turkey accompanied the flotilla until they entered the blockade zone. Then all bets are off and Israel has the right to fire at will.

I think you misunderstand the function of the blockade zone. Fire at will is not on the menu just due to entry.

 

[gryfin]

LOL, that report is based on obsolete and outdated information, the judge who wrote it has since said that the latest information shows it's wrong and has exonerated Israel. Good luck!

You and sand flea may think the report has merit, but no serious person will, certainly not an ICC prosecutor. They're likely to take note of Goldstone's comment.

Again, not true. Richard Goldstone has said there is no reason to change the report. And a subsequent review of the Goldstone Report by another set of human rights scholars has upheld every charge against Israel.

The Goldstone Report stands and it was reconfirmed by another set of human rights scholars.

 

[fuji]

Nice try, sand flea. I guess it's just our collective imaginations that we saw Goldstone write an oped in the NYT saying that Israel had no policy of targetting civilians.

You are sad, pathetic, and wrong.

 

[groggy]

Nice try, sand flea. I guess it's just our collective imaginations that we saw Goldstone write an oped in the NYT saying that Israel had no policy of targetting civilians.

You are sad, pathetic, and wrong.

Ratio of insults to argument has gone way over the moon on this one Fuji.
I think that means you should just lay off and admit you're wrong, since you are down to about 5:1 insults to anything remotely resembling arguments.

 

[basketcase]

I guess that goes with grog's 100:1 of 'creative interpretations' to anything resembling fact.

 

[gryfin]

Nice try, sand flea. I guess it's just our collective imaginations that we saw Goldstone write an oped in the NYT saying that Israel had no policy of targetting civilians.

You are sad, pathetic, and wrong.

Actually, Ernst Zundel/Fuji, it's just your imagination that the Goldstone Report (where the charges of Israeli War Crimes are thoroughly documented in a 500 page report by a panel of human rights scholars according to a transparent methodology and with full public hearings) has been modified in any way. In fact, all the charges in the Goldstone Report have been confirmed by another set of human rights scholars.

 

[scouser1]

Take Israel's sugar daddy,(the US administration and Congress) and nukes out of the way, and then you will see how Turkey is all bark but no bite