Turkey downs Russian plane over Syria

Twister

Well-known member
Aug 24, 2002
4,693
436
83
GTA
Turks claim it was over Turkish airspace, Russians say it was over Syria, I would say this is very significant.
Its no secret Turkey doesn't like Russians bombing ISIS. Turks bomb the Kurds that are fighting Isis.

Putin calls plane's downing by Turkey 'stab in the back'

Istanbul (CNN)One of the world's most volatile regions was roiled further Tuesday when Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Turkish-Syrian border. Turkey said it hit the plane after it repeatedly violated Turkey's airspace and ignored 10 warnings.

Turkey and Russia exchanged bellicose language after the downing of the plane, raising fears in the international community that the brutal Syrian conflict could spiral into something much wider.

Russian President Vladimir Putin called the downing of the Russian plane a "stab in the back that will have serious consequences for Russia's relationship with Turkey."

And Turkey's ambassador to the United States, Serdar Kilic, was equally aggressive in his comments, tweeting: "Understand this: Turkey is a country whose warnings should be taken seriously and listened to. Don't test Turkey's patience. Try to win its friendship."

NATO's governing body, the North Atlantic Council, said it would hold an emergency meeting in Brussels at 5 p.m. (11 a.m. ET) on Tuesday. The council is made up of the NATO ambassadors of the 28 countries that are members of the alliance and is NATO's highest decision-making body.

Turkey is a member of NATO, which considers an attack on one of its members to be an attack on them all.

Not long after the plane was shot down Tuesday morning, spitting fire and diving nose-first toward the ground, Turkey claimed responsibility. Turkey's semiofficial outlet, the Anadolu Agency, quoted Turkish presidential sources as saying the Russian Su-24 was "hit within the framework of engagement rules" in Syria's Bayirbucak area, near the border with Turkey.

Russian officials denied the plane had violated Turkish airspace.

Both pilots ejected from the plane, but their fate is unknown, Sputnik reported. The terrorist group ISIS does not operate in the area where the plane went down. But other rebel groups do, including al Nusra Front -- al Qaeda's affiliate in Syria -- along with more moderate U.S.-backed groups.
Turkey released a purported image of the flight path of the plane showing it had violated Turkish airspace. Turkey said it had issued 10 warnings to the aircraft before two F-16s responded "within engagement rules" near the Turkish-Syrian border.

But the Russian Defense Ministry said "objective monitoring confirmed" the plane was not in Turkish airspace.

"The Su-24 bomber jet was in Syrian airspace at the altitude 6,000 meters, the Russian Defense Ministry said," according to Sputnik. "The pilots were reportedly able to parachute out of the jet before it crashed."

A U.S. defense official told CNN that Turkey informed Washington that it had shot down a Russian military aircraft near the Syrian border after an airspace violation. U.S. forces were not involved in the incident, the official added.

Syria has been embroiled for more than four years in a brutal civil war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people, sent millions of families fleeing and laid waste to entire cities.

Turkey vehemently opposes the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad. Russia is propping up the Assad regime.

Skirmishes between Turks and Syrians have taken place in the past, with Turkish officials accusing Syrian planes of violating Turkish air space.


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
23,371
1,950
113
well there is a great deal of radar data there. But I think shooting down a plane you know had no hostile intent over your airspace is still pretty difficult to justify.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,768
3
0


A radar track of the Su-24's path as you can see it overflew a projecting 'peninsula' of Turkish territory jutting into Syria. It is not like the aircraft was heading 'hell-for-leather' towards Ankara.

Now it is also true, although tangential to the major issue, that there are no Daesh forces anywhere near where this occurred. Then again it is reported that the supposedly "Democratic Opposition" forces were shouting Allahu Akbar, and shot down a Russian SAR helicopter.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
23,371
1,950
113
seems to me the Russians heeded the warnings and were at the very least headed out of Turkey when they were shot down. But looking at where the plane crashed, it was well into Syria so it looks highly likely the shoot down occurred over Syria. Of course considering how fast planes move it could have limped back to Syria after being struck, but still I don't see the justification when the plane was headed out of Turkey and possibly had left Turkey. Bunch of hot heads. Now we are good see if Europeans are gonna risk their lives to protect a muslim member when it acts like a douchebag. I am guessing no.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
80,010
8
0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
Now we are good see if Europeans are gonna risk their lives to protect a muslim member when it acts like a douchebag. I am guessing no.
Russia doesn't have the military muscle to take on Turkey. Turkey isn't Georgia or Ukraine. Turkish military has better weapons then Russia does.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,768
3
0
Bunch of hot heads. Now we are good see if Europeans are gonna risk their lives to protect a muslim member when it acts like a douchebag. I am guessing no.
Of course Europeans in this case includes us.

Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty does have the wiggle provision that if A punches B in the muzzle and B then bites A that is not technically an unprovoked attack on A. However, this was a very dangerous move on the part of Turkey, and if anyone isn't worried at present you should be! We are all basically counting upon Russia turning the other cheek.
 

Perry Mason

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2001
4,682
208
63
Here
It is also true that Turkey has become more and more erratic - rogue? - over the past several years... ever since Erdogan's star started to rise...

Perry
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
11,145
2,490
113
However, this was a very dangerous move on the part of Turkey, and if anyone isn't worried at present you should be! We are all basically counting upon Russia turning the other cheek.
I disagree completely. The Russians have been intentionally provocating NATO all around Europe. England and the Baltic states have been chasing out Russians infringing over airspace with ever increasing frequency. Putin has been embolden with his successes in Ukraine and Georgia which like Hitler has seen the opposition melt away from confrontation. The reasons the jets have been so close to Turkey is not in their stated mission against ISIS but their mission against the Kurds who oppose Assad and are also fighting ISIS. Turkey has stood firm against Putnin and I hope NATO backs him up. Someone needs to draw a line in the sand for Putin and enforce it.
 

KBear

Supporting Member
Aug 17, 2001
4,169
1
38
west end
www.gtagirls.com
The Russian Su-24 is a 40 year old plane. Is surprising they released the radar data on the Russian plane's flight path, and how detailed it is. Turkey and NATO are sending Russia a message.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
a lot of hot air will be cloud the airwaves but this will not result in a war.

Russia has been acting up and making threatening sorties near many nato countries. turkey told them not to try their patience. Russia didn't listen and lost one jet. are they going to fight turkey and risk nato jumping in to defend turkey and Ukraine? no. they will cut gas supplies to Ukraine and do other things to get back at the west.

its too bad and it may prevent a rapprochement with the west. but that's all
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
17,572
2
0
The Russians have been intentionally provocating NATO all around Europe. England and the Baltic states have been chasing out Russians infringing over airspace with ever increasing frequency.
Also, Russia has claimed that the Canadian Arctic is Russian territory.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
I disagree completely. The Russians have been intentionally provocating NATO all around Europe. England and the Baltic states have been chasing out Russians infringing over airspace with ever increasing frequency. Putin has been embolden with his successes in Ukraine and Georgia which like Hitler has seen the opposition melt away from confrontation. The reasons the jets have been so close to Turkey is not in their stated mission against ISIS but their mission against the Kurds who oppose Assad and are also fighting ISIS. Turkey has stood firm against Putnin and I hope NATO backs him up. Someone needs to draw a line in the sand for Putin and enforce it.
well said
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,670
6,839
113
I disagree completely. The Russians have been intentionally provocating NATO all around Europe. England and the Baltic states have been chasing out Russians infringing over airspace with ever increasing frequency. Putin has been embolden with his successes in Ukraine and Georgia which like Hitler has seen the opposition melt away from confrontation. The reasons the jets have been so close to Turkey is not in their stated mission against ISIS but their mission against the Kurds who oppose Assad and are also fighting ISIS. Turkey has stood firm against Putnin and I hope NATO backs him up. Someone needs to draw a line in the sand for Putin and enforce it.
Well, the Turks are plastering the Kurds with bombs as well. The decision for the shoot down was a calculated and political move. The pilots, especially Western trained ones, have no authority to engage without orders from the ground. This was not a mistake.
 
Toronto Escorts