TSE will collapse today

[Radio_Shack]

200 points* = collapse ?

at noon.

Okay, if you say so.

It was predicted based on the futures and other markets. Seems we have our heads on a little more then global markets, at least today. So what is your point in this post? Are you trying to say you a smartie pants ? Anyways...What do you think the market will be by end of year? lets see if your heckling is worthy . It was down as much as 700 points today so I would call that temporary collapse. Could have made 500 points in an hour if you risk taker, day trader.

 

[pencilneckgeek2]

So what is your point in this post?

What was your point in starting this thread?

Fearmongering?

On edit, your original post stated collapse, not temporary collapse. Please, no revisionist history. Stand behind your post.

Your post was based on supposition, that because of what had happened elsewhere around the world was bound to happen in New York, and Toronto.

My post was based on facts.

The TSX, (not the TSE, that's the Tokyo Stock Exchange) was down 200 points at noon, hardly a collapse. A 2% drop in the markets is a down day, nothing to be alarmed about. I'm not particularly concerned with what the TSX will be at the end of the year. I am a long term investor, every company I own shares in pays a dividend. Should share prices dip, my dividends will purchase more shares. It's a win-win situation for when the markets recover. (and they will recover)
I don't tend to play the game of ''what do I think things will be like in 2 months?'', but to be sporting, if I had to hazard a guess, my thought would be that the TSX will be somewhere between 8500 and 9500 as 2009 begins.


"We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful."
Warren Buffett





*note, I'm posting this at 3:00 pm, the TSX is down 161 points, and The Dow 154. Again, I'll offer this out, those numbers do not constitute a collapse.

 

[21pro]

Sell Mortimer! Sell!

we all sold already in August.

 

[enduser1]

best investment is in frozen concentrated orange juice futures...
Sell Mortimer! Sell!

"Turn on those machines!"

EU

 

[gentle_lover]

What was your point in starting this thread?

Fearmongering?

On edit, your original post stated collapse, not temporary collapse. Please, no revisionist history. Stand behind your post.

Your post was based on supposition, that because of what had happened elsewhere around the world was bound to happen in New York, and Toronto.

My post was based on facts.

The TSX, (not the TSE, that's the Tokyo Stock Exchange) was down 200 points at noon, hardly a collapse. A 2% drop in the markets is a down day, nothing to be alarmed about. I'm not particularly concerned with what the TSX will be at the end of the year. I am a long term investor, every company I own shares in pays a dividend. Should share prices dip, my dividends will purchase more shares. It's a win-win situation for when the markets recover. (and they will recover)
I don't tend to play the game of ''what do I think things will be like in 2 months?'', but to be sporting, if I had to hazard a guess, my thought would be that the TSX will be somewhere between 8500 and 9500 as 2009 begins.


"We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful."
Warren Buffett





*note, I'm posting this at 3:00 pm, the TSX is down 161 points, and The Dow 154. Again, I'll offer this out, those numbers do not constitute a collapse.

What do you think about ING Groep(ING-N) shares? It is below $10 and its dividend yield 20% or something?

 

[jwmorrice]

An amazing end to the day with the TSX only down 37 points!

jwm

 

[pencilneckgeek2]

What do you think about ING Groep(ING-N) shares? It is below $10 and its dividend yield 20% or something?

I haven't done much research on that company, but I do know (from the news recently) that they've had a government cash injection. From what I understand about the company, it is basically sound, but as I said, my knowledge on the company is very very weak. Any advice you get from someone here (or on any internet chat area for that matter) is worth exactly what you are paying for it. Zero.

 

[dajodo2]

An amazing end to the day with the TSX only down 37 points!

jwm

Today was the anniversary of the initial crash on October 24 1929.

It was the meltdowns on the Monday and Tuesday after that was the catalyst to the dirty 30's.

Just a little historical trivia

 

[Mencken]

I honestly think the market needs a major overhaul.

For eg: I think commodities should be removed from trading altogether. Either that or if you "purchase" x amount of dollars worth of crude, you actually have to take delivery of it at an oil distribution point (coastal unloading station for eg). That will stop ALL the speculation with artifically drives the price up, and down.

As for precious metals as Danmand stated, I think if you buy x amount of gold, you take posession of it. Not some made up fabricated amount on paper in some account somewhere.

I also don't think anyone should be allowed to "buy" or "sell" a loan or mortgage. If a lender loans someone money, they carry the debt until the borrower pays it off. If the lender goes tits up? TFB that's the only one affected by it.

I also don't think banks should be allowed to borrow money, especially from another bank! This kind of reminds me of an old steve martin routine about banks: he says: Hi I'm fred, I have a BANK, got 1500? Ok, bill smith, 1500, white suit, top right hand pocket.....

I think your style of banking got modernized somewhere around the year 1600

Get real...commodities markets are absolutely necessary for people/companies that need to hedge. The speculators provide the market with the ability to do that. Shut down the CBOT for example, and you shut down food production in North America. That would be a good thing I suppose?

And...whoever ends up holding the paper at expiry actually does have to take delivery. That is how it works now. You are free to pay your way out of that if you want...but ultimately the commodites markets are exactly that - markets for commodities. And the market enables users and producers to lock in future price. That's what it's there for.

Buying and selling loans is not necessarily a bad thing either. But problems can certainly happen when there is social engineering in the mix...to say nothing of deficiencies in the rating agencies, and just general short sightedness on the part of buyers.

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

I honestly think the market needs a major overhaul.

For eg: I think commodities should be removed from trading altogether. Either that or if you "purchase" x amount of dollars worth of crude, you actually have to take delivery of it at an oil distribution point (coastal unloading station for eg). That will stop ALL the speculation with artifically drives the price up, and down.

As for precious metals as Danmand stated, I think if you buy x amount of gold, you take posession of it. Not some made up fabricated amount on paper in some account somewhere.

I also don't think anyone should be allowed to "buy" or "sell" a loan or mortgage. If a lender loans someone money, they carry the debt until the borrower pays it off. If the lender goes tits up? TFB that's the only one affected by it.

I also don't think banks should be allowed to borrow money, especially from another bank! This kind of reminds me of an old steve martin routine about banks: he says: Hi I'm fred, I have a BANK, got 1500? Ok, bill smith, 1500, white suit, top right hand pocket.....

Who cares what you think should be allowed. And I thank the lord that atavistic people like you don't control these things.

 

[W3bster]

Once I stop hearing everyone and their grandmother saying it's a great buying opportunity then I will be a little less hesitant to stroll among the carnage.

 

[canucklehead]

I got out of the stock market after the BreX nonsense/tech sector collapse....

stock market returns are much higher the my real estate.

 

[JohnLarue]

I honestly think the market needs a major overhaul.

For eg: I think commodities should be removed from trading altogether. Either that or if you "purchase" x amount of dollars worth of crude, you actually have to take delivery of it at an oil distribution point (coastal unloading station for eg). That will stop ALL the speculation with artifically drives the price up, and down.

As for precious metals as Danmand stated, I think if you buy x amount of gold, you take posession of it. Not some made up fabricated amount on paper in some account somewhere.

I also don't think anyone should be allowed to "buy" or "sell" a loan or mortgage. If a lender loans someone money, they carry the debt until the borrower pays it off. If the lender goes tits up? TFB that's the only one affected by it.

I also don't think banks should be allowed to borrow money, especially from another bank! This kind of reminds me of an old steve martin routine about banks: he says: Hi I'm fred, I have a BANK, got 1500? Ok, bill smith, 1500, white suit, top right hand pocket.....

I hate to say it, but you clearly do not understand how markets function
The buying and selling of commodities futures is older than the stock market (Japan) and serves a very valuable function for farmers and the end users of the commodities (ie General mills)

Buy and selling of a loan is used to reduce risk & if done correct fulfills that purpose. Lately this has been done in a very irresponsible way (It will be corrected- by the market & perhaps by regulators)

If banks are not able to borrow / lend to each other, the economy will come to a screeching halt. Next time you cash your paycheck, please realize your company probably borrowed that money short term from a bank who probably borrowed it from another bank short term.
Companies often have to wait 90 days to get paid by its customers. In order to pay you they borrow short term

 

[dcbogey]

I hate to say it, but you clearly do not understand how markets function
The buying and selling of commodities futures is older than the stock market (Japan) and serves a very valuable function for farmers and the end users of the commodities (ie General mills)

Buy and selling of a loan is used to reduce risk & if done correct fulfills that purpose. Lately this has been done in a very irresponsible way (It will be corrected- by the market & perhaps by regulators)

If banks are not able to borrow / lend to each other, the economy will come to a screeching halt. Next time you cash your paycheck, please realize your company probably borrowed that money short term from a bank who probably borrowed it from another bank short term.
Companies often have to wait 90 days to get paid by its customers. In order to pay you they borrow short term

Amen, brother

 

[drrogers]

The sky is falling - the sky is falling

An amazing end to the day with the TSX only down 37 points!

jwm

Wasn't that wonderful news


What a great day on the market. So much money to be made - haven't you learned that when there is blood on the sidewalk that is the time to buy.

 

[goodtime]

Today's results ... pretty much the final wreckage of the Hedge Funds. With the US dollar so high compared to Canadian ... time to buy Canadian Resources in CDN funds.


bbk

Not sure it'll be the final. Few more bumps before bottom then rebound. After U.S. election & 'Global' summit. Thou slow chopie rebound up to 18 months.

History tend to repeat itself thou this time in fast forward 8x with hedge funds & Automated trading.

 

[21pro]

JohnLarue to Tboy...

I hate to say it, but you clearly do not understand how markets function
The buying and selling of commodities futures is older than the stock market (Japan) and serves a very valuable function for farmers and the end users of the commodities (ie General mills)

Buy and selling of a loan is used to reduce risk & if done correct fulfills that purpose. Lately this has been done in a very irresponsible way (It will be corrected- by the market & perhaps by regulators)

If banks are not able to borrow / lend to each other, the economy will come to a screeching halt. Next time you cash your paycheck, please realize your company probably borrowed that money short term from a bank who probably borrowed it from another bank short term.
Companies often have to wait 90 days to get paid by its customers. In order to pay you they borrow short term

I wanted to... but, you said it first. This tboy guy needs to stop chiming in on financial discussions. (he should also invest in an outside financial advisor)

 

[3Tees]

JohnLarue to Tboy...



I wanted to... but, you said it first. This tboy guy needs to stop chiming in on financial discussions. (he should also invest in an outside financial advisor)

There are a few others as well who should not chime in and do not have an understanding of finance and how markets work.

Here's another benefits of derivatives that consumers see every day - the price of goods and services we buy remains relatively stable. Consumer goods that are based on commodities, and even those that are slightly removed from it have stable prices because very large producers enter into derivative contracts to stabilize their prices consistent over the long term. It's a form of hedging and insurance.

Hell, as a small business with a few American clients, I even use them. Because of the size of some of the US transactions I do, I have direct access to my Bank's Foreign Exchange Desk. When I book a sale or issue an invoice to an American client I call the desk immediately and lock-in a FUTURE contract for about a month's worth of time based on TODAY's exchange.

My clients will send a cheque, or even send a transfer based on TODAYS's exchange rate, it still takes 5 days to two weeks to be delivered and clear the bank. This an eternity in terms of Foreign Exchange, and I don't want to get screwed should the Canadian Dollar suddenly strengthen, or even gradually trend upward. When I book a FUTURE exchange rate based on TODAY's rate and what my clients paid me, I'm ensuring that I know exactly how much I'm getting, so that I can pay my supplier and make my profits, which are sometimes very slim, and can seriously be affected by a slight move given the size of transaction involved (often over $50,000, where a one cent fluctuation in exchange represents a $500 swing!!!)

Is it possible for me to lose in this scenario if I just let the exchange ride should the Canadian Dollar decrease - hell yes, but for me the stability offered by the FUTURE contract is well worth it TODAY. I'm in the consulting business, not the business of knowing where the Foreign Exchange market will trend, and these products eliminate the need for me to do so.

 

[S.C. Joe]

The Cad dollar is about 78.5 cents to the US dollar now...the way its been falling back to the high 60 cents range doesn't seem so far fech now...I thought I never see the Cad dollar under 80 cents again.

I'm hoping it stay low....I might have my own fashion show going on in the Falls on my next holiday

 

[nottyboi]

Asian markets down today... Japan down 6% - lowest level in 26 years!

Arab markets down significantly as Saudi & Kuwait injected billions into banks

NA markets could be in for a little tumble this morning!

You can pretty much guarantee a bloody monday. There will be margin call selling from Friday (the DOW still dropped 300 pts) and asian and middle east markets are imploding. Brace for Impact!!!!