Ahh - the "if the sucker fell for it, then it would be a crime not to take his money" defense.
Well, we disagree on the law (and morality) I guess.
Ahh, the "I had an accomplice, how can I be guilty!" defense.
Trump gets a $355 million kick to the crotch, will he pay up?
- Thread starter Ceiling Cat
- Start date
Well, we disagree on the law (and morality) I guess.
How about this. You go see an SP, she is a bait and switch, you decide to stay. You have a good time renegotiate the fee, and continue to see her.
Is it fraud? Because imo thats that happened here.
Banks and insurance companies in the USA are hardly "innocent victims" they change the rules for rich people all the time to get and keep business. That's all that happened here.
And spare me your so called morality. You are one of the biggest moral compromisers on the board.
Ahh..
"The rich are different, so it isn't illegal" defense.
Its not a defense. Its reality. Just like the laws are set up so they can not pay taxes, that customs officials greet them off their private planes, that they avoid other lines, can arrange traffic closures, casinoes give back some losses to whales, and numerous other things.
As someone said, owe the bank Billions, and its the bank's problem. In this case its institutions changing the rules for rich people. Because the volume of cash back makes it worth it. No different than any other business giving a bulk discount, except in this case the product is money.
What is actually scary is the thought that mitchell76 believes this. I will instead take the position that mitchell76 found that link and posted it as sarcasm. (am I giving him too much credit
New York Prosecutes Couple For Fraud For Listing Their House For $499,000 When It Ultimately Sold For $485,000
NEW YORK — Local couple Marty and Shelly Cross have been officially charged with fraud after listing their home for $499,000 when it ultimately sold for slightly less.babylonbee.com
)On a more serious note, do you think trucker jake and the rest of the maga horde believe it?
Leticia James and Judge Engoron would take this case for sure.......LMAOWhat is actually scary is the thought that mitchell76 believes this. I will instead take the position that mitchell76 found that link and posted it as sarcasm. (am I giving him too much credit
On a more serious note, do you think trucker jake and the rest of the maga horde believe it?
Do you remember when the GOP was the party of law and order. The memory is fading. Today it if you are dum enough to be defrauded it is your fault. Sad,
Actually there is not "Enough said". I guess the fact that there was overwhelming corroborating evidence to support Cohen's testimony you prefer to ignore.
I take back my statement earlier that you were being sarcastic ...... it now seems that you weren't!
You are a staunch Republican. What is your November prediction in the general election ?
I don't remember that.
They've always been "For my friends, Everything; for my enemies. the Law" during my lifetime.
There must be an in-group the law protects, but does not bind and an out-group that the law binds, but does not protect.
That ^ kinda went over my head, sorry.
But from a layman's perspective, I have always found that the real price of a property is established by a willing buyer and a willing seller, period. In Canada there are differences as to how things are handled in the US, but the willing buyer/seller is always right.
I had a property I wasn't looking to sell and someone contacted me wanting to buy. I said I didn't want to sell. So he made an offer which I thought was reasonable and I refused. Over time he wore me down so I gave him a price that was triple what I would pay for it. After some time, he agreed, and I sold it. There was no way in hell I would have paid what he did for that property. A willing buyer/seller established the value of the property, at least for him
I used my roommate's credit card to pay for my vacation, but she shouldn't have left it lying around. It's her fault. So it's not fraud.
Why did they put me in jail??
Michael Cohen was an important witness on behalf of the plaintiff, although hardly the linchpin
that defendants have attempted to portray him to be. His testimony was significantly
compromised by his having pleaded guilty to perjury and by some seeming contradictions in
what he said at trial. However, carefully parsed, he testified that although Donald Trump did not
expressly direct him to reverse engineer financial statements, he ordered him to do so indirectly,
in his “mob voice.” Although the animosity between the witness and the defendant is palpable,
providing Cohen with an incentive to lie, the Court found his testimony credible, based on the
relaxed manner in which he testified, the general plausibility of his statements, and, most
importantly, the way his testimony was corroborated by other trial evidence. A less-forgiving
factfinder might have concluded differently, might not have believed a single word of a
convicted perjurer. This factfinder does not believe that pleading guilty to perjury means that
you can never tell the truth. Michael Cohen told the truth.
The judge double-checked Cohen's testimony against what the other witnesses said and they provided supporting facts that made Cohen believable in this situation. Standard judicial ruling.
The trial is full of side-splitting bullshit from Trump, like this asshole, lying "expert witness"..... 
Gary Giulietti
Defendants offered Gary Giulietti as an expert in “surety underwriting and surety brokering.”35
He has an ongoing personal and professional relationship with Donald Trump. TT 4723.
Having met him in the late 90s, Giulietti plays golf and lunches with Donald Trump and is a
member of “a bunch of his clubs.” TT 4723. Additionally, sometime between 2017-2018,
Giulietti became the Trump Organization’s insurance broker, and he remains its broker to this
day. TT 4723-4724.
In its over 20 years on the bench, this Court has never encountered an expert witness who not
only was a close personal friend of a party, but also had a personal financial interest in the
outcome of the case for which he is being offered as an expert.36
Giulietti opined that an insurance company like Zurich would pay no credence to an SFC
compilation provided by a client, and that the main element that an insurance company would
weigh is the client’s liquidity. TT 4738-4741.
Giulietti also opined that, in his experience, any insurance company would have offered Donald
Trump an “accommodation,” which he explained would “provide a product with minimal [to] no
underwriting,” describing Zurich’s underwriting program as based on “airballs and witchcraft.”
TT 4743-4744, 4768-4770.
However, Giulietti’s testimony not only is belied by the testimony and contemporaneous notes of
the Zurich underwriter, Claudia Markarian, it is also completely inconsistent with the expert
report of another defense expert, David Miller, who opined that “Zurich made a competent
business decision to underwrite the Trump Organization’s business as an exception to their
normal guidelines based on reasonable risk factors, such as the sufficient liquidity of the Trump
Organization to indemnify Zurich should a loss take place.” NYSCEF Doc. No. 1434; TT 4770-
4772; PX 1561, 1552.
Giulietti also testified that the Trump Organization had filed very few claims, despite being
presented with evidence demonstrating that the Trump Organization tendered numerous claims.
TT 4775-4778; PX 603.
35 Despite having never been qualified as an expert witness before, when examined about his
qualifications, Giulietti boasted that “I don’t think there are four people in America that have my
qualifications to do what I do.” TT 4728-4729.
36 Giulietti had not billed directly for his trial testimony but clarified that “this would be included in our
overall relationship year over year.” TT 4726. In 2022, Giulietti’s company earned $1.2 million in
commissions from the Trump Organization account. TT 4761-4762.
Gary Giulietti
Defendants offered Gary Giulietti as an expert in “surety underwriting and surety brokering.”35
He has an ongoing personal and professional relationship with Donald Trump. TT 4723.
Having met him in the late 90s, Giulietti plays golf and lunches with Donald Trump and is a
member of “a bunch of his clubs.” TT 4723. Additionally, sometime between 2017-2018,
Giulietti became the Trump Organization’s insurance broker, and he remains its broker to this
day. TT 4723-4724.
In its over 20 years on the bench, this Court has never encountered an expert witness who not
only was a close personal friend of a party, but also had a personal financial interest in the
outcome of the case for which he is being offered as an expert.36
Giulietti opined that an insurance company like Zurich would pay no credence to an SFC
compilation provided by a client, and that the main element that an insurance company would
weigh is the client’s liquidity. TT 4738-4741.
Giulietti also opined that, in his experience, any insurance company would have offered Donald
Trump an “accommodation,” which he explained would “provide a product with minimal [to] no
underwriting,” describing Zurich’s underwriting program as based on “airballs and witchcraft.”
TT 4743-4744, 4768-4770.
However, Giulietti’s testimony not only is belied by the testimony and contemporaneous notes of
the Zurich underwriter, Claudia Markarian, it is also completely inconsistent with the expert
report of another defense expert, David Miller, who opined that “Zurich made a competent
business decision to underwrite the Trump Organization’s business as an exception to their
normal guidelines based on reasonable risk factors, such as the sufficient liquidity of the Trump
Organization to indemnify Zurich should a loss take place.” NYSCEF Doc. No. 1434; TT 4770-
4772; PX 1561, 1552.
Giulietti also testified that the Trump Organization had filed very few claims, despite being
presented with evidence demonstrating that the Trump Organization tendered numerous claims.
TT 4775-4778; PX 603.
35 Despite having never been qualified as an expert witness before, when examined about his
qualifications, Giulietti boasted that “I don’t think there are four people in America that have my
qualifications to do what I do.” TT 4728-4729.
36 Giulietti had not billed directly for his trial testimony but clarified that “this would be included in our
overall relationship year over year.” TT 4726. In 2022, Giulietti’s company earned $1.2 million in
commissions from the Trump Organization account. TT 4761-4762.
Or this jackass....
John Shubin
John Shubin is a lawyer called by the defense as an expert in “land use planning, entitlement, and
zoning.”42 TT 6043, 6048.
On direct examination, Shubin attempted to offer a host of legal conclusions about the deed
restrictions that encumber Mar-a-Lago, plaintiff’s objections to which this Court sustained, as it
is exclusively the Court’s province to interpret and apply the law. TT 6051-6075, 6084-6085.
Accordingly, there was no evidentiary value to Mr. Shubin’s testimony.
42 Mr. Shubin had never been qualified as an expert witness before. He was compensated between $1,395
and $1,595 per hour and has billed approximately 80-100 hours for his work on this engagement. He also
had two colleagues assisting him who billed between $735 and $935 per hour and have billed
approximately 100-110 hours. TT 6086-6088.
John Shubin
John Shubin is a lawyer called by the defense as an expert in “land use planning, entitlement, and
zoning.”42 TT 6043, 6048.
On direct examination, Shubin attempted to offer a host of legal conclusions about the deed
restrictions that encumber Mar-a-Lago, plaintiff’s objections to which this Court sustained, as it
is exclusively the Court’s province to interpret and apply the law. TT 6051-6075, 6084-6085.
Accordingly, there was no evidentiary value to Mr. Shubin’s testimony.
42 Mr. Shubin had never been qualified as an expert witness before. He was compensated between $1,395
and $1,595 per hour and has billed approximately 80-100 hours for his work on this engagement. He also
had two colleagues assisting him who billed between $735 and $935 per hour and have billed
approximately 100-110 hours. TT 6086-6088.
Or this one.
BNN Bloomberg – Canada Business News, TSX Today and Interest Rates
Get the latest Canadian business news, TSX updates, interest rates and Bank of Canada coverage. Explore stock market investing and get expert financial insights on investment portfolio strategies.
www.bnnbloomberg.ca
Yes, he committed perjury in a fraud case.
I believe his logic may be that two negatives (perjury and fraud) become a positive when multiplied together.
