Trudeau's New Cabinet

[Valcazar]

I don't think anyone is questioning if they are qualified, it is more a matter of if they are the best for the job.

But there is no way to pick "the best for the job" because it is impossible to measure.
Once you get to "qualified" you're basically done.
You might be able to narrow it down to "top tier", but you can't get more fine grained than that.

So once you are down to the short list, you can pick by whatever criteria you want.

 

[The Oracle]

[/QUOTE]

I'm just curious, if you were the PM and had members of the electorate who are women and minorities asking why they are not represented in the cabinet, what would you say to them? I'm not being facetious, I believe it's an actual dilema politicians face. If you had a cabinet of 20 politicians and you chose all white males, would you tell women and minority members of the voting public that you didn't feel any politician who was a female or minority was capable of doing the job?

if I go into a restaurant that is owned by someone who is a different ethnicity than me and everybody works there is of that same ethnicity. What do I care as long as the food and service are to my satisfaction?

 

[Butler1000]

Rearranging the deck chairs always helps when a ship is sinking......

 

[The Oracle]

Rearranging the deck chairs always helps when a ship is sinking......

Maybe Mr. Trudeau can start singing Auld Lang Syne as well.....

 

[Ponderling]

Nice politicking move - shuffle out all the lead ministers that are not seeking re-election.

Stick in the b-team so that when the go for re-election they can tout their cabinet 'experience'.

 

[tml]

if I go into a restaurant that is owned by someone who is a different ethnicity than me and everybody works there is of that same ethnicity. What do I care as long as the food and service are to my satisfaction?
[/QUOTE]
Not the same. Running a small, private business is completely different than running a Federal government representing 40 million people. Everyone wants to be represented and everyone wants to be heard. Theoretically, the best person for the best job makes sense but not in this case. You have to compromise and select people who you think can do the job well AND represent your constituency. It doesn't necessarily mean you hire incompetent people.

 

[The Oracle]

if I go into a restaurant that is owned by someone who is a different ethnicity than me and everybody works there is of that same ethnicity. What do I care as long as the food and service are to my satisfaction?

Not the same. Running a small, private business is completely different than running a Federal government representing 40 million people. Everyone wants to be represented and everyone wants to be heard. Theoretically, the best person for the best job makes sense but not in this case. You have to compromise and select people who you think can do the job well AND represent your constituency. It doesn't necessarily mean you hire incompetent people.
[/QUOTE]

As a constituent I could give a flying fidoo who represents me as long as they are doing the best job possible.

 

[tml]

Not the same. Running a small, private business is completely different than running a Federal government representing 40 million people. Everyone wants to be represented and everyone wants to be heard. Theoretically, the best person for the best job makes sense but not in this case. You have to compromise and select people who you think can do the job well AND represent your constituency. It doesn't necessarily mean you hire incompetent people.

As a constituent I could give a flying fidoo who represents me as long as they are doing the best job possible.
[/QUOTE]
This reminds me of the rule MLB brought in years ago that each team must have at least one representative at the All Star game. As a Blue Jay fan in the early days it was nice to see our team have a player in the game, even if they weren't voted in.

 

[The Oracle]

[/QUOTE]
This reminds me of the rule MLB brought in years ago that each team must have at least one representative at the All Star game. As a Blue Jay fan in the early days it was nice to see our team have a player in the game, even if they weren't voted in.
[/QUOTE]

Like Ron Fairly and Roy Howell?.......I get what they're doing but you can't run a country that way. You need the best people in their jobs no matter how they look or what is between their legs.

 

[JohnLarue]

The comments were all supportive......This was a master stroke by the uploader,lol.

Of course mister virtue signaller sees an Asian guy and figures he'll get right in there...Huge fail.

This whole cabinet reshuffle just reeks of desperation......He's going down and he knows it.

this is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic

 

[JohnLarue]

Rearranging the deck chairs always helps when a ship is sinking......

oops, you already point this out, my bad

 

[Jubee]

I don't know what this new line of cabinet members can do to lift up JTs dwindling stats. But I wouldn't count them out just yet....one of the saving grace to the Libs is that the Cons aren't any better. Peepee is virtually still unknkown without a lengthy rap sheet to brag about...If they can't sell Peepee to the centrist in order to swing the votes. we might still see JT for another term...

Peepee and Turdeau are the same, he votes the same as Turd' on the issues below. The PPC is entirely different, but they'll never get in on a large scale.
Hopefully a peekchur comparison helps people see things more clearly, because trying to convince them in any other way is useless it seems.

 

[NotADcotor]

That is what being qualified for the job means, that they are the best for a job. Ensuring diversity in your workforce, does not mean they are not qualified. Those are not mutually exclusive traits.

No, being qualified means you meet the bare minimums to do the job, being the best means they are the best.

Someone who graduated last in his med school and managed to slip into a residency program is qualified to practice medicine. However if you are looking for the best...

It seems like you are so blinded by diversity that you are unwilling to accept the difference.
Again, nobody is saying they are not qualified however if you are selecting for say gender, then you are only getting the best by chance. If you are determined to select 50% women when your recruitment is pool is only 38%, then you are probably not getting the best, unless you think women are superior.

But hey continue to believe that they are saying the women and minorities are not qualified and that is the issue, it makes the world easier to tolerate.

 

[NotADcotor]

But there is no way to pick "the best for the job" because it is impossible to measure.
Once you get to "qualified" you're basically done.
You might be able to narrow it down to "top tier", but you can't get more fine grained than that.

So once you are down to the short list, you can pick by whatever criteria you want.

Sure, but when you are selecting by race or gender or other criteria than you may or may not even be trying for top tier.
Also for minister, if you are talking qualified, you mean pulse, lets be realistic here. Hell Vegas Girl is qualified in her first term, but I sure as hell wouldn't want her as finance minister. I think there is a huge gap between pulse and someone who is top tier.

In a hypothetical, say the Slightly Silly party gets in power and they only have 1 member in Atlantic Canada. First termer, been on the pogey and dole till he got elected at 30. Unrepentant drunkard and an utter disaster on the campaign but that's the way they like it in the district of W-T-F. If you are trying to fill quota, he is getting in cabinet. No matter what, top tier or not.

It is obvious that with Trudeau his first filter is not separating out the top tier from the rest but making sure he fills quota. If you can't get enough top tier X to fill spots, you know he is going down the line... if he is at all realistic he will put the tokens in the less important ministries and hope nobody notices and fill the most important posts with the best people regardless of quota so he gets to virtue signal without having to do too much.

 

[NotADcotor]

If you had a cabinet of 20 politicians and you chose all white males, would you tell women and minority members of the voting public that you didn't feel any politician who was a female or minority was capable of doing the job?

Is someone asking for this? Is this what happened under Harper or would happen under Pierre Poulet?

I'd be more concerned if the cabinet contained all strawmen.

For you to think this would ever happen or even consider it a possibility in an age where women and minorities get elected and selected for cabinate on a regular basis... you must have a very low opinion of them to think they need quotas to not get a seat at the big soylent green table.

 

[Frankfooter]

Is someone asking for this? Is this what happened under Harper or would happen under Pierre Poulet?

I'd be more concerned if the cabinet contained all strawmen.

For you to think this would ever happen or even consider it a possibility in an age where women and minorities get elected and selected for cabinate on a regular basis... you must have a very low opinion of them to think they need quotas to not get a seat at the big soylent green table.

Half the population are women.
Imagine the gall in having a cabinet that reflected that, that would totally outrage a tiny minority.

 

[Clean@jerk]

Watching the swearing in of Trudeau's new cabinet. So many changes it is hard to keep track.

One of the major challenges of cabinet making is to try to ensure that the faces of the Ministers look like the faces of the general population of Canada.
Trudeau overhauls his cabinet, drops 7 ministers and shuffles most portfolios | CBC News

How about ensuring the most qualified no matter race or gender? Enough of this stupid equality of outcome bullshit.

The left destroyed Greece the central right is now making it recover. That is where Canada heading to another Greece of 2010.

 

[Dutch Oven]

That is what being qualified for the job means, that they are the best for a job. Ensuring diversity in your workforce, does not mean they are not qualified. Those are not mutually exclusive traits.

What kind of pretzel logic is that? There can be many people who are "minimally qualified" for a position, but that does not mean that you cannot meaningfully distinguish between them, and that one of them is not the MOST qualified. If you are sacrificing productivity and effectiveness for anything else, whether that is diversity or any other objective, your organization will be predictably less productive and effective than it would have been otherwise.

Wayne Gretzky and Mike Krushelnyski were both qualified to play centre for the Edmonton Oilers in 1984-85. If they only had room for one of them, should the Oilers have played Krushelnyski if they already had another player whose name started with G but no other K surnames? That's about how smart the "diversity" argument is.

 

[Darts]

Wayne Gretzky and Mike Krushelnyski were both qualified to play centre for the Edmonton Oilers in 1984-85. If they only had room for one of them, should the Oilers have played Krushelnyski if they already had another player whose name started with G but no other K surnames? That's about how smart the "diversity" argument is.

This reminds me of a somewhat similar example. I think the policy of Canada's Olympic hockey team is or was to have players from all ten provinces. This policy might not produce the best team but it ensured that all ten provinces are represented on the team.

(Of course, we all know that the 20 best players are all from Ontario in any given year. Just kidding, I think.)

 

[JohnLarue]

What kind of pretzel logic is that? There can be many people who are "minimally qualified" for a position, but that does not mean that you cannot meaningfully distinguish between them, and that one of them is not the MOST qualified. If you are sacrificing productivity and effectiveness for anything else, whether that is diversity or any other objective, your organization will be predictably less productive and effective than it would have been otherwise.

Wayne Gretzky and Mike Krushelnyski were both qualified to play centre for the Edmonton Oilers in 1984-85. If they only had room for one of them, should the Oilers have played Krushelnyski if they already had another player whose name started with G but no other K surnames? That's about how smart the "diversity" argument is.

yeah, layering on diversity criteria by definition statistically alters the pool of qualified candidates or alters the smaller set of finalists

the argument that the minority candidate is equally qualified each and every time is absurd logic (pretzel logic- I like that one)
if this were the case there would be zero need for the diversity criteria

hiring managers have a responsibility to the firms shareholders, the firms clients, the firms suppliers and the firms employees to hire the very best qualified applicant, independent of race or gender

if a hiring manager is applying personal bias or bigotry in his/ her hiring choices then he/ she is abdicating the above responsibilities & should be terminated

quotas are a terrible business policy
hire the best person available