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Trudeau says he doesn't understand why NDP is pulling back from carbon price support

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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of course you are



this experiment has been run and it failed miserably, fatally for tens of millions , maybe a hundred million people
Mao was a vindictive monster , his body count will likely never be known
Everyone pays taxes. Demanding billionaires pay a higher share of their income in taxes commensurate with their earnings is not socialism.
 
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JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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You summarized it correctly. Except for saying it is not my or anyone else's right to demand that billionaires pay their fair share (whatever that is - 95% or 99% or 85% etc). It very much is.

you are really messed up
and you will be perpetually disappointed in life as your utopian dream nightmare is not going to happen
certainly not without violence and a lot of dead people - recall how the experiments starting in 1917 progressed ?

so best you accept the fact that legally and morally someone else's taxes is none of your damn business

and be happy and content that you are able to enjoy the products / services you demand delivered to you by someone who is getting rich
someone who is getting rich by meeting your demands
products / services is all you get to demand from them

your 95% value proves this is just your envy and spite
its punishment for being successful, plain and simple

the more subtle loonies, just say, "we are asking (like its suppose to be a choice) the wealthy to pay a bit more"
not you , you went super nova lunatic loonie left - you want it all (95% or 99% )
i.e. tax the rich until they are rich no more

the purpose of taxation is to provide for the operation of a functioning govt
the purpose of taxation is not to redistribute wealth
 

JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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Everyone pays taxes. Demanding billionaires pay a higher share of their income in taxes commensurate with their earnings is not socialism.
95%-99% sure is socialism
i.e. tax the rich until they are rich no more
i.e. confiscation in the name of the people

the purpose of taxation is to provide for the operation of a functioning govt
the purpose of taxation is not to redistribute wealth

want more?
Go hustle and earn it

your only fear should be that there are other loonies out there who can self justify confiscating 95% or 99% of what you earn
 
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Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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you are really messed up
and you will be perpetually disappointed in life as your utopian dream nightmare is not going to happen
certainly not without violence and a lot of dead people - recall how the experiments starting in 1917 progressed ?

so best you accept the fact that legally and morally someone else's taxes is none of your damn business

and be happy and content that you are able to enjoy the products / services you demand delivered to you by someone who is getting rich
someone who is getting rich by meeting your demands
products / services is all you get to demand from them

your 95% value proves this is just your envy and spite
its punishment for being successful, plain and simple

the more subtle loonies, just say, "we are asking (like its suppose to be a choice) the wealthy to pay a bit more"
not you , you went super nova lunatic loonie left - you want it all (95% or 99% )
i.e. tax the rich until they are rich no more

the purpose of taxation is to provide for the operation of a functioning govt
the purpose of taxation is not to redistribute wealth
Whether things change or not, it is very much every citizens business that the 0.1% dont pay their fair share of taxes because the system of which we are all a part of, is rigged in their favour.
95%-99% sure is socialism
i.e. tax the rich until they are rich no more
i.e. confiscation in the name of the people

the purpose of taxation is to provide for the operation of a functioning govt
the purpose of taxation is not to redistribute wealth

want more?
Go hustle and earn it

you only fear should be that there is some other loonies out there who can self justify confiscating 95% or 99% of what you earn
No. Socialism is govt. control of production, distribution and pricing. I mean if 95% is socialism, why cant 50% that we pay be called socialism too?
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Whether things change or not, it is very much every citizens business that the 0.1% dont pay their fair share of taxes because the system of which we are all a part of, is rigged in their favour.

No. Socialism is govt. control of production, distribution and pricing. I mean if 95% is socialism, why cant 50% that we pay be called socialism too?
Too funny
socialists / commies have been trying to redefine/ reimage socialism ever since the the Soviet experiment went fatally bad

The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Soviet (council) - Wikipedia
A soviet (Russian: совет, romanized: sovet, IPA: [sɐˈvʲet], lit. 'council') is a workers' council that follows a socialist ideology,

you will blither on about definitions and how it is not the same . i.e. you will get the experiment right this time - ???

rebranding an evil ideology does make it any less evil
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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Too funny
socialists / commies have been trying to redefine/ reimage socialism ever since the the Soviet experiment went fatally bad

The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Soviet (council) - Wikipedia
A soviet (Russian: совет, romanized: sovet, IPA: [sɐˈvʲet], lit. 'council') is a workers' council that follows a socialist ideology,

you will blither on about definitions and how it is not the same . i.e. you will get the experiment right this time - ???

rebranding an evil ideology does make it any less evil
There is nothing socialist about what I said.
if the govt confiscates (95% to 99%) they control everything
Taxation is not confiscation.
 

Skoob

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Jun 1, 2022
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So you cannot use vehicles and machines where you have to and reduce consumption where you can? There is no no way shape or form you can reduce consumption? There is tons of waste at the farmers, at the food packaging plant (in the case of food), at the grocery store (for food) and at the consumer end. Reduce that waste and consequently consumption. Emissions are caused not just by transportation, but even things like cattle rearing. You reduce waste, less livestock has to be farmed. And so on and so forth. There is lots of opportunities to reduce consumption. 33% of food for example, that we produce is wasted. 33%!!. Same goes for others. Do remote work, walk, use bicycles when you can. All of that help to reduce oil and gas consumption. Oh and recycle and refurbish, and reuse. Again, that helps. There are so many ways.

How would you know by how many percentage points you can actually reduce emissions and that it would not make any difference? Explain your math.

PP wont reduce our taxes. He will cut taxes for Bezos and for corporates though.

They can sure. They wont though. They want my money. So I can give them my money and demand they pay their fair share of 95%.
Hate to break it to you but the waste is mostly at the consumer end. Households waste about 11% of food. In the US, it's more like 30% wasted at the household level. You want to tell people what they can do with the food they already purchased Mr. Stalin?

Businesses, farmers, manufacturers, packagers, already rely on cutting waste so that their costs are kept low and their profits as high as possible. Unlike government, businesses strive to reduce waste as much as possible knowing that their success depends on it and there isn't an endless supply of money.

Here's some math for you...
If all the transportation CO2 emissions are 14% globally, and you do not agree about how many points that could be reduced as per my comment above, let's just assume net-zero and take away that 14% entirely, that still leaves 86%...without any transportation.
Canada accounts for 1.5% of all global emissions.
So take that down to zero...we're still at about 84% total globally.
Keep in mind that means no transportation globally, and Canada is essentially back in the dark ages.

Do you have proof PP will only cut taxes for corporations? If you do show me. If you don't, then you have been sucked in by leftist propaganda and scare tactics. Did the Ontario PC's increase taxes? No. On the flip side, how about our Toronto NDP Mayor? Yes...9.5%.

You need a drink and some time to rethink your logic.
 

Skoob

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2022
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Taxation is not confiscation.
Well if you prefer to call it "theft" that would be incorrect as theft is a crime.

So what would be a good term for legally taking away almost all of someone's earned money just because they have more of it than you do, and you feel entitled to it?

Socialism?
Democratic Socialism?
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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Hate to break it to you but the waste is mostly at the consumer end. Households waste about 11% of food. In the US, it's more like 30% wasted at the household level. You want to tell people what they can do with the food they already purchased Mr. Stalin?

Businesses, farmers, manufacturers, packagers, already rely on cutting waste so that their costs are kept low and their profits as high as possible. Unlike government, businesses strive to reduce waste as much as possible knowing that their success depends on it and there isn't an endless supply of money.

Here's some math for you...
If all the transportation CO2 emissions are 14% globally, and you do not agree about how many points that could be reduced as per my comment above, let's just assume net-zero and take away that 14% entirely, that still leaves 86%...without any transportation.
Canada accounts for 1.5% of all global emissions.
So take that down to zero...we're still at about 84% total globally.
Keep in mind that means no transportation globally, and Canada is essentially back in the dark ages.

Do you have proof PP will only cut taxes for corporations? If you do show me. If you don't, then you have been sucked in by leftist propaganda and scare tactics. Did the Ontario PC's increase taxes? No. On the flip side, how about our Toronto NDP Mayor? Yes...9.5%.

You need a drink and some time to rethink your logic.
So wherever there is waste, and there is tons of waste at the farmers, manufacturers, packages etc, (15% of produced foods is wasted at the farm) we should take steps to cut down on it. And your premise that transportation is the ONLY opportunity to cut impact on the environment is nonsensical. It is not just transportation as I mentioned in my previous post. As for Canada accounting for 1.5% of total global emissions - well you need to look at per capita emissions. Canadians per capita contribute more to impact on the climate than someone from China. So although we may not add so much to global emissions, per capita emissions need to still be reduced.

I dont know what PP will do. That is why I ask for specificity. But knowing conservatives, he will most likely only care about corporations and rich people.
Well if you prefer to call it "theft" that would be incorrect as theft is a crime.

So what would be a good term for legally taking away almost all of someone's earned money just because they have more of it than you do, and you feel entitled to it?

Socialism?
Democratic Socialism?
It is neither theft, nor confiscation. Would you then argue that us paying 50% is also theft? Tax is a social contract. You pay into the system commensurate with your earnings. So someone like Elon paying 95% is reasonable. This isn't socialism of any kind.
 

Skoob

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Jun 1, 2022
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As for Canada accounting for 1.5% of total global emissions - well you need to look at per capita emissions. Canadians per capita contribute more to impact on the climate than someone from China. So although we may not add so much to global emissions, per capita emissions need to still be reduced.
Do you want to re-write this part? I had to re-read it a couple of times to try and understand your logic.

If Canada as a whole only contributes 1.5% of total global emissions, wtf does per capita actually change here??? At the end of the day, it's 1.5% regardless. At most you can get that down to net-zero theoretically, and that does nothing on a global scale.

I think you actually realize the insanity of your argument and are just trying to save face at this point...good effort but it's not working for you.
 
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Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
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Do you want to re-write this part? I had to re-read it a couple of times to try and understand your logic.

If Canada as a whole only contributes 1.5% of total global emissions, wtf does per capita actually change here??? At the end of the day, it's 1.5% regardless. At most you can get that down to net-zero theoretically, and that does nothing on a global scale.

I think you actually realize the insanity of your argument and are just trying to save face at this point...good effort but it's not working for you.
Per capita matters. If Canada only contributes 1.5%, and that is because of the low population, then by reducing per capita emissions, we can contribute much less than 1.5%. After all we are still in the top 10 countries with most emissions. Remember China may produce everything, but the majority of the worlds consumption is driven by people in the west. As you can see in the map below, the countries with most per capita emissions are also countries with lower populations and advanced economies.

You are just trolling at this point jumping through hoops.

Screenshot at Apr 18 21-53-11.png
 
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Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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EVs actually negatively impact the environment big time. Lithium is extremely poisonous and there is precious little on the planet. Not to mention these batteries once they are dead is just non-biodegradable toxic e-waste. I think oil and gas at this time may pollute in the short term, and the atmosphere will clean itself in the long term if we take steps to reduce consumption. But e-waste will pollute in the long term and nothing can be done about it. We need to separate the "green" narrative from EVs. It is misleading.
Its true about lithium but even that poison is way better than putting more CO2 into the atmosphere.
We are at the point where we need to do everything (except geoengineering).
EV's are one small part but not a long term goal.
 

Frankfooter

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Well if you prefer to call it "theft" that would be incorrect as theft is a crime.

So what would be a good term for legally taking away almost all of someone's earned money just because they have more of it than you do, and you feel entitled to it?

Socialism?
Democratic Socialism?
That's like saying paying for your dinner is 'theft' just cause you ate.

If you don't like taxes, move to Haiti.
No government, no taxes.
Its the right wing, libertarian fantasy right now.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Do you want to re-write this part? I had to re-read it a couple of times to try and understand your logic.

If Canada as a whole only contributes 1.5% of total global emissions, wtf does per capita actually change here??? At the end of the day, it's 1.5% regardless. At most you can get that down to net-zero theoretically, and that does nothing on a global scale.

I think you actually realize the insanity of your argument and are just trying to save face at this point...good effort but it's not working for you.
You really don't understand the concept of fair share.

Did it work the day you ate at that restaurant and said your meal only cost 1.5% of the restaurant's revenue so it didn't matter if you paid or not?
 

JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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There is nothing socialist about what I said.
oh come in now comrade
you know you are not being truthful

Taxation is not confiscation.

taxation @ 95% , to 99% is most certainly confiscation
and it gets worst

if govt tried to confiscate 95% to 99% of ANY business owners income
he / she would just stop operating the business , shut it down, stop ordering raw materials, terminate the employment of the entire staff , stop taking new orders, raise the price of existing orders by 1000% , or lower the price of existing orders by 99%, one of the two and then shut the doors and drive away

the public would freak because they could not get the products / services they demand and
Govt would have to seize "control of production, distribution and pricing."


now how did you put it?
oh yes
Socialism is govt. control of production, distribution and pricing.
not only all that, but the competition would immediately pull all operations right out of your country as they do not want to get confiscated @ 95% to 99%

you are not very bright
 
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Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
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Its true about lithium but even that poison is way better than putting more CO2 into the atmosphere.
We are at the point where we need to do everything (except geoengineering).
EV's are one small part but not a long term goal.
Lithium is not better than co2. It's very toxic. And EV production itself adds to Co2 emissions.
 
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Frankfooter

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Lithium is not better than co2. It's very toxic. And EV production itself adds to Co2 emissions.
Yes, its better because there is less CO2 going into the air, even if its not good.
We are so close to too many tipping points right now, you have to deal with that first.

Its one piece, not perfect, but its a piece of the solution.
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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oh come in now comrade
you know you are not be truthful




taxation @ 95% , to 99% is most certainly confiscation
and it gets worst

if govt tried to confiscate 95% to 99% of ANY business owners income
he / she would just stop operating the business , shut it down, stop ordering raw materials, terminate the employment of the entire staff , stop taking new orders, raise the price of existing orders by 1000% , or lower the price of existing orders by 99%, one of the two and then shut the doors and drive away

the public would freak because they could not get the products / services they demand and
Govt would have to seize "control of production, distribution and pricing."


now how did you put it?
oh yes


not only all that, but the competition would immediately pull all operations right out of your country as they do not want to get confiscated @ 95% to 99%

you are not very bright
I did not sat any of that. I did not say the govt has to tax business owners 95%. I said billionaires and oligarchs need to be. And why is 95% confiscation and 50% taxation? No. Taxation is neither confiscation nor is a billionaire paying their fair share socialism.

You are not making sense.
 
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roddermac

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EVs actually negatively impact the environment big time. Lithium is extremely poisonous and there is precious little on the planet. Not to mention these batteries once they are dead is just non-biodegradable toxic e-waste. I think oil and gas at this time may pollute in the short term, and the atmosphere will clean itself in the long term if we take steps to reduce consumption. But e-waste will pollute in the long term and nothing can be done about it. We need to separate the "green" narrative from EVs. It is misleading.

That's what we've been saying all along. That EVs cause just as many environmental concerns as gas powered vehicles..

I know he buddies around with the Khalistanis. But he hates white people? C'mon now. 😂
Yes he does and it's obvious.
 
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