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Trudeau covered in oil....Trans Mountain Protest

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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We should all just ride bicycles and trade arts & crafts for things like food and candles to light our huts.
Then no one can accuse us of being climate change deniers and we will feel really good about ourselves.
Any money we do manage to scrape together, we should donate to some green energy contractors because that will also make us feel good.
And after all, it's not about doing the right thing, it's about feeling good right?

Now if only someone could actually prove that CO2 emissions contribute to global warming we could go ahead and print the t-shirts and sell them for food too!
And if we continue to enthusiastically make things worse, while we wait for that proof? Isn't that sorta like watching the heat char the wood, but insisting only the sight of flames can prove a danger of fire before you'll turn off the heat-gun, or even wave it just a bit?

Anyway nothing to do with my reply to Bud, which you quoted, nor with pipelines in general, or the specific topic.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
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Google Enbridge Kalamazoo for your first PS. On the second PPS: plastics. As you say, you thought wrong, whether about me, about environmentalists, or about the manufactured materials. Working from fewer preconceptions usually improves any thought process. Start a thread if you want to discuss any of those but my own thinking.

There most certainly are viable alternatives to fossil fuels; we got all the way to the XIXth C without much use of them at all. What we need to do is commit to a useful, serious exchange in society (not to mention across the Planet) on the definition of that critical concept 'viable'. To begin with, I suspect you're eliding it with 'cheap', or 'economical'. 'Viable' actually refers to survival, and committing to yesterday's technology is a death sentence for any society as dependent on technology as you say we are.

I think I already covered the 'technology fails' issue above, and in many previous pipeline threads. It supports my point, when you say it always fails. And we always learn too slowly from those failures. Do you imagine Titanic was the first ship to sail without enough lifeboats? The watertight compartments that could have saved the ship were a well known concept well before her plans were drawn, but ship owners and builders convinced the authorities they were too expensive and would kill their business if they were legislated. Just as pipeline owners, and railway CEOs do today.

But at least railways and tanker trucks operate out where we can see them. And because of that, unlike Titanic, their owners and operators can't cheap out and leave the tops off their 'leakproof' containment vessels. And when the inevitable happens, each one of them must be punctured individually — like those watertight compartments — for there to be a problem at all, and by the time things stop moving, the word's already on its way and the CEO's are working on it.

Not taking a whole day before they realize they've been pumping their oil into the Kalamazoo River. And it was not the CEOs and managers, but we customers and taxpayers who paid for all that clean-up, and for the pricey lobbyists paid to persuade pols to let them cut corners. Because although technology always fails, the pipeline CEOs didn't see the greater risk in letting it fail out of sight.

We can afford to buy a bit of safety and risk limitation instead of paying the cost of their "always" failing decisions. We'll just have to wait a little longer for the oil to get to us. Or to China.

BTW, the prices of PVs (which do use odd bits of plastics) and EVs (ditto) are coming down all the time.
Have you ever heard of a "PIG" (not the guy in charge of Orwell's Animal Farm)? You might be interested in this: https://www.rigzone.com/training/insight.asp?insight_id=310&c_id=

In short, the proper operation of pipelines is not so "out of sight" as you suggest.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
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And if we continue to enthusiastically make things worse, while we wait for that proof? Isn't that sorta like watching the heat char the wood, but insisting only the sight of flames can prove a danger of fire before you'll turn off the heat-gun, or even wave it just a bit?

Anyway nothing to do with my reply to Bud, which you quoted, nor with pipelines in general, or the specific topic.
Somewhere along the line someone brilliantly discovered that if you can convince people they are "bad" for not supporting climate change, it would be a license to print money.
So large quantities of money being spent fixing a problem that doesn't exist, and if someone dare challenge that, then it becomes a moral issue in that they are "deniers" and face the scorn of people who want to feel good about the climate without fully understanding what, if anything affects it.

That, I have to admit, is brilliant.

Now where can I sign up for a grant? I want in on this.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
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Have you ever heard of a "PIG" (not the guy in charge of Orwell's Animal Farm)? You might be interested in this: https://www.rigzone.com/training/insight.asp?insight_id=310&c_id=

In short, the proper operation of pipelines is not so "out of sight" as you suggest.
Yes. Long before you mentioned it here. You don't need a high-tech self propelled, camera equipped "PIG" to detect a pipeline leak, just a person walking next to it, same as with a tank car or tanker truck. But pipelines are designed and built to eliminate those eyes. Safer technology uses genuine intelligence, not the AI that runs "PIG"s.

Did you Google Enbridge Kalamazoo? You might better ask them, if they'd heard of "PIG"s, not me. Didn't stop their leak or detect it.
 
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