Toronto Parking Infraction/Notice of Impending Conviction

[Brookstone]

I received a Notice of Impending Conviction for a City of Toronto Parking violation that happened on Apr 14. Here's the thing. I know the exact place and time this took place, but I never got a ticket on my car. Plus I don't understand the reason for this ticket. Same place I've parked before with no problems.
Infraction says: STD VEH HWY PROHIB TIME/DAY at 21.04 hrs.

This was near Front/University, right across the street from Jack Astors, or around the corner, on the other side of Front. There is a little stretch of paid parking available there.
Last I checked, after 9pm parking is free. And I was parked within the area where I was allowed to park. Even though I've parked at the same place many times before, I still always check the signs whenever I'm parking on the streets in Toronto.

Anyone been thru the same thing, how can I prove I was not wrong? Or is it what they say goes? This is BS!!

 

[jaycam]

Read the notice front and back, it should explain you still have time to fight it.

It maybe be easier to just pay it and move on,,, if you ignore it you will be forced to pay with late fees when you renew your plates.

 

[Brookstone]

Thats what confuses me. I know those guys are not usually wrong, but I also know for a fact that I did not do anything wrong. I can't possibly explain the situation over the phone huh?

But Jay also makes a good point that it might be easier to just pay. Ticket is $60. Sit in traffic to go downtown, find and pay for parking to make an trial date, then all that again when trial comes. The time and hassle just to get to the court is another mission in itself. Suck I'd be out $60 for nothing, but that just seems the easiest thing to do out of the 2 options.

I have til May 22 to pay. I'm gonna try to go back to that spot sometime this week and see what the deal is.
At the end, I think it just might be worth it to pay the higher fees to park underground or parking lot. Trying to save some $ on parking downtown might just end up costing you more. Brutal!

 

[hungry]

Thats what confuses me. I know those guys are not usually wrong, but I also know for a fact that I did not do anything wrong. I can't possibly explain the situation over the phone huh?

But Jay also makes a good point that it might be easier to just pay. Ticket is $60. Sit in traffic to go downtown, find and pay for parking to make an trial date, then all that again when trial comes. The time and hassle just to get to the court is another mission in itself. Suck I'd be out $60 for nothing, but that just seems the easiest thing to do out of the 2 options.

I have til May 22 to pay. I'm gonna try to go back to that spot sometime this week and see what the deal is.
At the end, I think it just might be worth it to pay the higher fees to park underground or parking lot. Trying to save some $ on parking downtown might just end up costing you more. Brutal!

If you think you are right, when you go back to the site take pictures of the signage, fight it and bring it the pictures to court.

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

Parking tickets are a scam that the city (that's ourselves, really) perpetrate on it's citizens (ourselves as well). In effect, we're bending ourselves over and sticking it to ourselves. The proceeds of the parking fines pretty well go to pay for the officers who hand out the next batch of tickets so the process pays for itself (and we're the ones paying).

Most tickets are probably legitimate but I've had a couple that were not correct over the years and I've known others who have as well. My biggest beef with the system is that there is no user-friendly procedure to contest a ticket that may have been in error.

The problem is that to contest a ticket you have to appear IN PERSON during business hours to personally request a court date. This initial appearance involves standing in line for (potentially) several hours to complete a one minute transaction to request the court date.

Once you've wasted half a day asking to contest your ticket, you will be left in limbo for up to six months (sometimes more) before a court date is assigned to you. When you request a court date, you can ask for night court (at least you could at one time) but there was no assurance that they would honour your request. You have to go to court at the time and location they choose for you and this process, again, can take half a day or more to get through. If they pick a difficult time for you, you have to appear in person ahead of the date to request a change (which may, or may not, be granted).

Faced with this level of hassle, very few people can afford to waste so much of their time and effort to fight a $20 or $30 fine. You basically bend over and pay the bill because fighting it actually costs more in lost time and effort.

Isn't democracy great? We have on-line everything in this world EXCEPT the ability to defend your rights against the city.

 

[afterhours]

Parking tickets are a scam.

imagine not being able to park ever because all spots are taken by penniless bastards...parking tickets all of a sudden will make sense

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

imagine not being able to park ever because all spots are taken by penniless bastards...parking tickets all of a sudden will make sense

Do you really think that there are that many people in this city that can afford to own and operate a car and can't afford the price of feeding the meter? There's always parking lots if you're desperate, parking at meters is a last resort for most drivers anyway.

Anyway, if you'd read my post, you'd realize that I'm not against enforcing parking rules per se. What upsets me about the way the system is set up is that there's no reasonable recourse for anyone who may wish to contest their ticket. Mistakes will happen even with the best intentioned officers and you can't tell me there aren't at least a few parking fficers in this city who cut corners or make mistakes.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Parking tickets are a scam that the city (that's ourselves, really) perpetrate on it's citizens (ourselves as well).

How is it a scam if you park illegally and get a ticket for it?

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

How is it a scam if you park illegally and get a ticket for it?

The scam is that that if you get a ticket and you WERE NOT parked illegally, it costs you far more to clear your name than it does to just pay the fine and move on. I did explain that in my post but it would have required reading past the first sentence.

I don't know how many erroneous tickets get issued every year but I know that 100% of the tickets I have received have not be legitimate. Granted, I've only had about ten parking tickets in over forty years of driving, and it's never been worth my while to fight any of them because my time was worth more than the cost of the ticket. Even so, it strikes me as a type of extortion to ask people to may a fine they did not deserve or be forced to jump through numerous time-consuming bureaucratic hoops.

From a population that has no problem criticizing LE in other threads, I'm surprised (and a bit amused) to see everyone assuming that parking tickets are so frequently legitimate. Even if MOST were reasonable, it's not really acceptable that even a small percentage of the population should have to accept paying a fine they did not legitimately incur.

 

[hunter001]

How long where you parked?

Toronto passed a general time limit a few years ago (2 or 3 hours). I don't know if it is still on the books or if they enforce it.

 

[antaeus]

Last 5 - 6 years every parking ticket I get, a few friends' as well, I take to Eglinton-Keele location. A sharp right turn in the door takes you to the parking ticket line, usually overstaffed with no or very short lineups, as opposed to the humanity mayhem at the HTA infraction windows straight ahead.

Same question:

You're pleading not guilty?
Do you intend to contest the evidence?
Yes!

Clerk makes a few unknown scrawls on the form and that's it, in-out usually in less than a minute. I've never heard anything since in 7 years, no trial dates, and nothing at MTO registration renewal.

My conclusion therefore is that any and every parking ticket contested as not guilty is simply thrown away. Here's why:

A significant, predictable amount of the city's cash money revenue is from paid parking tickets. Prior to information sharing with the MTO I read that approximately 10 - 30% of tickets were voluntarily paid, after MTO involvement it went up to 70% +. That was so much cash money the quota's went up and Toronto police were swamped with ticket writing and court appearances, hence the creation of the fake police uniformed parking ticket authority officers.

Paid parking ticket revenues rose. More fake police uniformed parking ticket officers were hired, all CUPE of course, becoming both a blessing in revenue generation but an immediate long term liability to the city due to permanent increased staff. Toronto city council has created this self-fulfilling monster. No councillor has the fortitude to tackle what they see as burdenless free money, some trumpet it as 'green tax' discouraging polluting cars....

Meanwhile, parking in the city is a nuisance, as our poor pervert terbite complains about what most probably is a wrong ticket. It's not that the fake police uniform parking officers are corrupt, the quota system encourages little time slips, slight disregarding of marked parking zones. The fake police uniform parking officers will happily ticket twice, three, four times a car illegaly parked on busy lane during rush hour but will not have it towed, simply there's more free uncontested money in it to issue multiple tickets. Business visitors, tourists are often enraged and bewildered at the rapidity of receiving parking tickets as the city robs them of their cash leaving them insulted.

And that's why, from my experience at Eglinton-Keele, I surmise that any and every contested parking ticket is thrown away - it simply costs the city too much to defend, or, it could negatively affect mathematical projections of actual cash money revenue earned from parking tickets.

 

[reaper29]

Read the notice front and back, it should explain you still have time to fight it.

It maybe be easier to just pay it and move on,,, if you ignore it you will be forced to pay with late fees when you renew your plates.

It would be, but the OP said he never received a ticket on his windshield.

 

[Brookstone]

Hey blue, I totally get what you are saying. Exactly my point above too that the time and hassle you spend trying to clear your name, might just be easier to pay the $60. Takes what couple mins to pay online lol.

 

[Brookstone]

How long where you parked?

Toronto passed a general time limit a few years ago (2 or 3 hours). I don't know if it is still on the books or if they enforce it.

hmm I stated to reply then got to thinking, do you mean total hours from when you were first parked, paid or not?

Ya I think during the weekday it's 2 hours and weekends 3? So I get there about 7 pay for parking up until 9pm. Which after is free. So are you saying the 2,3hr rule apply here, from 7pm? IDK about that....Cuz I thought that rule is enforced by how much time you are allowed to pay at the machine? So if days max is 2hrs you can only pay for max of 2hr at a time.
Also if that is the case then if you park after 9pm and on when it's free then the 2,3 hr rule should apply there as well no? Cuz I've definitely done that before as well, more than 3, and no issues.

 

[Keebler Elf]

I don't know how many erroneous tickets get issued every year but I know that 100% of the tickets I have received have not be legitimate.

Sure sure...

I guarantee Blue-Spheroid parks illegally. He may not think he deserves a ticket, but he does...

 

[oldjones]

The Notice of Impending Conviction will have on it exactly where the vehicle supposedly was at the time of the offence. There won't be a 'here or there' as you described. If you paid (you didn't say) for time up until 9PM, and displayed the receipt, you were fine. But the ticket (the one you never saw) was issued four minutes after 9PM, so the Blue Meanie's saying the parking is not free after 9PM as you thought it was. As the Notice says: "…during prohibited time". If you were over the three hour max it would say "…in excess of permitted time" or some such.

The signs at the spot and/or on the Pay and Display should tell you the permitted and prohibitted times. If Meanie got it wrong, the folks at the Tag Offices will look up the parking laws at that spot and cancel the ticket. But you or your agent will have to go there. If the signs don't exist, you may have a case for getting off but you'll have to make that one at a trial.

Sadly, like there's no free lunch, there's no free parking either. We pay big bucks to build and maintain roads; if they can make us a few extra bucks moonlighting as parking lots it's not a bad thing.

 

[tboy]

It would be, but the OP said he never received a ticket on his windshield.

and THAT excuse has never been used before "rolls eyes"......

To the OP: I will tell you this: the location of the infraction will be on your notice somewhere. The SECOND you say "or" in your argument you won't have a leg to stand on since the ticket is for a specific location. Taking a picture of the signage won't do you any good. You would need to have a picture of your car parked at that location, at the specific time. Now you could fake the photo but if you submit that as evidence I'd say that you could be charged with perjury (lying in court).

Sorry, if you don't mind losing the time off work etc to fight this, go ahead but the caveat with parking tickets is that they've made it economically unsound to fight them.

Further to what OJ said up there: it could be free after 9 pm, but look closely, MANY (if not most) places downtown are permit parking only after 9 pm in order to allow parking for residents.

As stated, if you parked more than 3 hrs you're toast. The maximum you can park anywhere on any city street (unless you have a permit) is 3 hrs. I don't think this is your case because the charge would be "unreasonable length of time", not "parking at prohibited time".....

 

[djk]

Some individuals will actually take a parking ticket from a tagged car and put it on their windshield. The logic is that parking enforcement will see the ticket and move on (thus they don't get a ticket).

 

[tboy]

Some individuals will actually take a parking ticket from a tagged car and put it on their windshield. The logic is that parking enforcement will see the ticket and move on (thus they don't get a ticket).

That only works during shift changes because a green hornet works in a specific area. Now they may not remember every car they tag, but say they show up at the beginning of an allowable parking period and see a ticket on a car on a street they just left. They'd check the ticket to see who issued it in THEIR zone and discover the error.

Remember: they have nothing better to do with their time than make sure you get nailed.

Now I realize the city needs funds to maintain roads etc. I know that we need some sort of control else people would just park anywhere, at anytime, for as long as they want. BUT a green hornet IS the lowest form of life there is. Frankly, I would never take that job, I don't care how much they pay and I would never admit to anyone that's what I did. If I met someone who was one? Fuck, they wouldn't get the time of day from me and if a hot chick was one and wanted to F my brains out? I'd rather go PAY someone to F me than do her for free.

They're worse than vultures, bottom feeders and maggots as far as I'm concerned. It isn't the fact that they have a job to do, it's how they go about it. Hovering around known areas just waiting to pounce on somoene who didn't have change or was just a little short on time. Plus it is totally arbitrary how they hand out tickets. I used to see a big 35' transport unloading supplies at College and Spadina every morning blocking off the right lane. It was not even a parking zone, it was a no stopping zone. Traffic would be backed up for blocks yet they NEVER got a ticket. But if a car parked there for 2 mins? Wham, $78.00 ticket.

Plus too there should be at least a 5 min grace period. Whose to say that our watch wasn't a little off? or the clock on the dash? I mean, I got nailed more than a few times at 9:59 am where you could only park after 10 am. I mean how fricken LOW is that?

I used to watch that show Parking Wars once in a while. I saw one segment and the green hornet would crouch behind some bushes across the street from a popular sandwich shop. A person would pull up, look around for the meter maid, then go into the shop. As soon as the person went into the shop, the meter maid would rush across the street and ticket the car. Another time a person demonstrated that the meter was broken and wouldn't accept a coin. Would they negate the ticket? No. They said, call this number then sat there while the person was on hold for 30 minutes and couldn't get through.....I mean if I was a supervisor and I saw that? Oh man. Just because one CAN be an asshole doesn't mean they should. People like that get what's coming. I couldn't help but think: karma's a bitch so when your doctor calls you in and tells you you have herpes or testicular cancer, don't come whining about it. That's payback for all those people you fucked over.

 

[Garden of Eden Ladies]

Last 5 - 6 years every parking ticket I get, a few friends' as well, I take to Eglinton-Keele location. A sharp right turn in the door takes you to the parking ticket line, usually overstaffed with no or very short lineups, as opposed to the humanity mayhem at the HTA infraction windows straight ahead.

Same question:

You're pleading not guilty?
Do you intend to contest the evidence?
Yes!

Clerk makes a few unknown scrawls on the form and that's it, in-out usually in less than a minute. I've never heard anything since in 7 years, no trial dates, and nothing at MTO registration renewal.

My conclusion therefore is that any and every parking ticket contested as not guilty is simply thrown away. Here's why:

A significant, predictable amount of the city's cash money revenue is from paid parking tickets. Prior to information sharing with the MTO I read that approximately 10 - 30% of tickets were voluntarily paid, after MTO involvement it went up to 70% +. That was so much cash money the quota's went up and Toronto police were swamped with ticket writing and court appearances, hence the creation of the fake police uniformed parking ticket authority officers.

Paid parking ticket revenues rose. More fake police uniformed parking ticket officers were hired, all CUPE of course, becoming both a blessing in revenue generation but an immediate long term liability to the city due to permanent increased staff. Toronto city council has created this self-fulfilling monster. No councillor has the fortitude to tackle what they see as burdenless free money, some trumpet it as 'green tax' discouraging polluting cars....

Meanwhile, parking in the city is a nuisance, as our poor pervert terbite complains about what most probably is a wrong ticket. It's not that the fake police uniform parking officers are corrupt, the quota system encourages little time slips, slight disregarding of marked parking zones. The fake police uniform parking officers will happily ticket twice, three, four times a car illegaly parked on busy lane during rush hour but will not have it towed, simply there's more free uncontested money in it to issue multiple tickets. Business visitors, tourists are often enraged and bewildered at the rapidity of receiving parking tickets as the city robs them of their cash leaving them insulted.

And that's why, from my experience at Eglinton-Keele, I surmise that any and every contested parking ticket is thrown away - it simply costs the city too much to defend, or, it could negatively affect mathematical projections of actual cash money revenue earned from parking tickets.

There was a news report about a year ago where they said that the city is so backed up with tickets and court dates and they sometimes will dismiss the ticket because they can't assign a court date within a certain time. I think if you have to wait over a year for a court date then you have the right to request it dismissed.

The Notice of Impending Conviction will have on it exactly where the vehicle supposedly was at the time of the offence. There won't be a 'here or there' as you described. If you paid (you didn't say) for time up until 9PM, and displayed the receipt, you were fine. But the ticket (the one you never saw) was issued four minutes after 9PM, so the Blue Meanie's saying the parking is not free after 9PM as you thought it was. As the Notice says: "…during prohibited time". If you were over the three hour max it would say "…in excess of permitted time" or some such.

The signs at the spot and/or on the Pay and Display should tell you the permitted and prohibitted times. If Meanie got it wrong, the folks at the Tag Offices will look up the parking laws at that spot and cancel the ticket. But you or your agent will have to go there. If the signs don't exist, you may have a case for getting off but you'll have to make that one at a trial.

This is also correct. Once you ask to fight the ticket, the person at the counter will look and check to make sure it was written correctly. If you can easily prove that it wasn't correct then there is a good chance they will cancel it. I have seen many people complain about this and seen the ticket canceled.

You can also use the excuse that you didn't get receive the ticket on your car. Its up to the JOP to decide if he believes it, but its a legitimate excuse, I know but I have used it before. They will also reduce your ticket by $20 if they agree to your excuse. I get a lot of tickets every year so I am often at the ticket office and I have someone go through the almost same situation.



Thanks

Nicole