Toronto cops make mad loot writing tickets. Still think the system isn't corrupt?

[Mao Tse Tongue]

"The veteran officers are the Toronto Police Service's most enthusiastic enforcers of the province's driving laws, with Thompson earning $162,000 in 2008 and Virani $151,000 - almost doubling their salaries due largely to overtime racked up sitting in courtrooms.

Their names appeared on a list released by the city showing who on the force made more than $100,000 a year.

And those pay packets don't include lucrative "paid duty," where off-duty officers, paid by private companies, earn between $60 and $70 an hour to perform a host of duties, such as directing traffic around construction sites.

"It's the best game in town," Mike Walt, a retired police officer turned paralegal, said of the money officers can earn from overtime.

And as the Toronto Police Accountability Coalition noted in its most recent bulletin, the number of highly paid officers is climbing rapidly."

http://www.thestar.com/article/609928

 

[Moraff]

"The veteran officers are the Toronto Police Service's most enthusiastic enforcers of the province's driving laws, with Thompson earning $162,000 in 2008 and Virani $151,000 - almost doubling their salaries due largely to overtime racked up sitting in courtrooms.

Thanks to those yutzes that feel that just because they have the right to a hearing means they have to exercise the right every time regardless of whether they have been wronged or not.

And those pay packets don't include lucrative "paid duty," where off-duty officers, paid by private companies, earn between $60 and $70 an hour to perform a host of duties, such as directing traffic around construction sites.

What's that got to do with their salaries as police officers?

And as the Toronto Police Accountability Coalition noted in its most recent bulletin, the number of highly paid officers is climbing rapidly."

because more and more people are looking to beat the system by overloading it....

 

[seaniam]

So let me get this right, if citizens break parking and driving laws we should punish the people we want to enforce those laws. Perhaps our anger over these costs should be targeted against the morons that think they are above the law.

As for paid duties, why would this be any concern to the tax paying public? When a LEO is paid for these duties they are paid by private Companies. So how and why is this an issue?

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't TRAFFIC Tickets issued by non-police personal who are not covered by the Police Services contract. As such I believe they are covered only by the normal witness fees issued under the jurisdiction of the court. So again if these officers are in Court to cover non parking ticket offenses then shouldn't we be pissed at those who break the law.


sean

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

Let me answer you in a very simple way: When cops are PERSONALLY rewarded for writing tickets, especially needless ones or ones that are contentious, RATHER THAN enforcing the law, the system is corrupt, no ifs ands or buts. If you don't see that, I can't help you. It's so blatantly obvious.

Cops are PERSONALLY rewarded for writing tickets, even if motorists don't deserve them, because all they say is "sir, you can fight it" and see you in court and ka ching ching ching. And they are in fact making the legal logjam worse because aggrieved motorists who get bullshit tickets always fight them rather than paying them. It's actually a very common discussion amongst cops themselves how other officers enrich themselves on the back of unsuspecting citizens.

It is an utterly corrupt system that rewards cops PERSONALLY for writing tickets rather than enforcing the law. You guys have way too much faith in cops not writing bullshit tickets. I don't. Not all cops are bad, but in this system the worst get rich. Crazy. It's all about revenue now, nothing to do with public good.

 

[squash500]

IMHO it is that outrageous toronto police association collective agreement that is causing a lot of the problems.

Having to pay a cop a minimum 4 hour wage on his/her day off just to sit in court for sometimes only 10 minutes is IMHO a joke and a total waste of taxpayers money.

 

[seaniam]

Let me answer you in a very simple way: When cops are PERSONALLY rewarded for writing tickets, especially needless ones or ones that are contentious, RATHER THAN enforcing the law, the system is corrupt, no ifs ands or buts. If you don't see that, I can't help you. It's so blatantly obvious.

Cops are PERSONALLY rewarded for writing tickets, even if motorists don't deserve them, because all they say "sir, you can fight it" and see you in court and ka ching ching ching. And they are in fact making the legal logjam worse because aggrieved motorists who get bullshit tickets always fight them rather than paying them. It's actually a very common discussion amongst cops themselves how other officers enrich themselves on the back of unsuspecting citizens.

It is an utterly corrupt system that rewards cops PERSONALLY for writing tickets rather than enforcing the law. You guys have way too much faith in cops not writing bullshit tickets. I don't. Not all cops are bad, but in this system the worst get rich. Crazy. It's all about revenue now, nothing to do with public good.

Then repeal the laws that you are so offended by. If in fact the ticket is BS then you have the right to go to court. Chances are good you will lose unless you can impeach the officer that gave you the ticket which is difficult because police are governed by separate laws under Police Services Act. Not only can a LEO be prosecuted for perjury charges but they can face additional charges under the PSA. Judges tend to believe cops because of this double jeopardy.

I really fail to see how this is corrupt. What I found astounding in the article are the number of charges laid, 700,000 of which 85% are driving offenses. How many morons are there on the road? From my past experience driving in this City my guess would be that there are a lot.

The City in good faith negotiated a deal, for better or worse, with the Police association the current contract that calls for 1.5 time and a min. 4 hours, so how is that corrupt? The fact remains that the Province pays both expert and general witness a fee for each day they come to court no matter how long the matter is before the court.

Your premise is more out of anger at Police in general, not over some misguided notion that the system is corrupt.

Like I said be more pissed at the idiots that fail to obey the rules of the road.


sean

 

[squash500]

Then repeal the laws that you are so offended by. If in fact the ticket is BS then you have the right to go to court. Chances are good you will lose unless you can impeach the officer that gave you the ticket which is difficult because police are governed by separate laws under Police Services Act. Not only can a LEO be prosecuted for perjury charges but they can face additional charges under the PSA. Judges tend to believe cops because of this double jeopardy.

I really fail to see how this is corrupt. What I found astounding in the article are the number of charges laid, 700,000 of which 85% are driving offenses. How many morons are there on the road? From my past experience driving in this City my guess would be that there are a lot.

The City in good faith negotiated a deal, for better or worse, with the Police association the current contract that calls for 1.5 time and a min. 4 hours, so how is that corrupt?

Your premise is more out of anger Police in general, not over some misguided notion that the system is corrupt.

Like I said be more pissed at the idiots that fail to obey the rules of the road.


sean

What about those two cops mentioned in the article who are literally doubling their salaries by abusing the system? The city must have horrible negotiators working for them to negotiate such an awful agreement with the police association!

 

[Rylan]

Let me answer you in a very simple way: When cops are PERSONALLY rewarded for writing tickets, especially needless ones or ones that are contentious, RATHER THAN enforcing the law, the system is corrupt, no ifs ands or buts. If you don't see that, I can't help you. It's so blatantly obvious.

Cops are PERSONALLY rewarded for writing tickets, even if motorists don't deserve them, because all they say is "sir, you can fight it" and see you in court and ka ching ching ching. And they are in fact making the legal logjam worse because aggrieved motorists who get bullshit tickets always fight them rather than paying them. It's actually a very common discussion amongst cops themselves how other officers enrich themselves on the back of unsuspecting citizens.

It is an utterly corrupt system that rewards cops PERSONALLY for writing tickets rather than enforcing the law. You guys have way too much faith in cops not writing bullshit tickets. I don't. Not all cops are bad, but in this system the worst get rich. Crazy. It's all about revenue now, nothing to do with public good.

The cops are not being rewarded for writing tickets. They are getting paid for going to court because idiots think they can duck their responsibilities.

You think that cops are just going around writing tickets wrongfully and then cashing in at the court date?

I was away on holidays once and my ex took my car, parked it illegally. I tried to show that I was away with my plane tickets etc, There was pic of my car with time and date, etc. The digital age has change it for both cops and drivers.

What needs to change is the contract in which these cops get paid. He is doing his job, doing it right, the article clearly states he is a good guy and good cop. He is not doing anything wrong or illegal. It is the system that is messed up, not the cops in the case. And it is the system that is screwed up, but not corrupt.

 

[kenjo67]

I'll have to agree. I have many many LEO friends and even family and they know and tell me many officers are corupt but they just laugh over it saying they deserve to be cuz of the BS they put up with...????... And for everytime I've been given a BS ticket the LEO has always told me to fight it in court, and says it with a smile. My fines always get reduced but the cost to me is my time. BS tickets like not stopping complete (3 secs) at a stop sign when no other cars were around aka rolling stop. I believe LEO are under paid for sure and that they deserve to get paid for the risks they take but because they are not they find other ways to manipulate the system in their favor to get it.. and us the ones who pay for it... and I know there are some of you out there that will say, "well you broke the law so you deserved the ticket." When there are punk kids out there selling drugs, shooting up neighbor hoods and kidnapping kids, i think there time and ours is better served with them concentrated on those.

IMO ALL police officers should be located in high violence areas then dispatched from there rather than sitting around a posh neighborhood waiting to cath the rich guy for a rolling stop to earn court time.

 

[viking1965]

Let me answer you in a very simple way: When cops are PERSONALLY rewarded for writing tickets, especially needless ones or ones that are contentious, RATHER THAN enforcing the law, the system is corrupt, no ifs ands or buts. If you don't see that, I can't help you. It's so blatantly obvious.

Cops are PERSONALLY rewarded for writing tickets, even if motorists don't deserve them, because all they say is "sir, you can fight it" and see you in court and ka ching ching ching. And they are in fact making the legal logjam worse because aggrieved motorists who get bullshit tickets always fight them rather than paying them. It's actually a very common discussion amongst cops themselves how other officers enrich themselves on the back of unsuspecting citizens.

It is an utterly corrupt system that rewards cops PERSONALLY for writing tickets rather than enforcing the law. You guys have way too much faith in cops not writing bullshit tickets. I don't. Not all cops are bad, but in this system the worst get rich. Crazy. It's all about revenue now, nothing to do with public good.

They're being reimbursed for the time they spend in court, which they only get if the offender chooses to challenge the citiation. It's not like they earn "commission" on every ticket they write.

Where's the evidence that any of the tickets were "needless" or "contentious"? In the half dozen or so times that I've been pulled over in 25 years of driving, the officer has always been "fair and accurate" in his assessment of the "violation".

Writing tickets IS enforcing the law.

 

[Rylan]

And see I wish we had a cop sitting at the corner of my place. The amount of people running and rolling through our 4 way stop is crazy. There is a building on corner for manly self living disabled, one corner is a townhouse complex, one corner is a school and the last corner is houses. People go nuts through there at any of time of day. Even drying to beat out the crossing guards when they know that the guard is about to walk out an stop traffic. I have even seen some who just drive around the guard before the kids walk out, or drive after the kids have past them. It is sick.

Drive properly. It is that simple.

 

[kenjo67]

The cops are not being rewarded for writing tickets. They are getting paid for going to court because idiots think they can duck their responsibilities.

You think that cops are just going around writing tickets wrongfully and then cashing in at the court date?
doing anythi

Rylan hate to burst your bubble but they are. If you know any LEO truly well enough like I do (family members and those I've grown up with) and heard them all sitting around a table drinking beer they will be honest with you and say they do write them to earn court time. Cuz they get paid crap and they deserve to get paid better. I can't argue with the fact they they get paid crap everyone knows it. So they write tickets to cash in on court time... my proof is straight from the horses' mouth.. horses is pluralized.

 

[Rylan]

Rylan hate to burst your bubble but they are. If you know any LEO truly well enough like I do (family members and those I've grown up with) and heard them all sitting around a table drinking beer they will be honest with you and say they do write them to earn court time. Cuz they get paid crap and they deserve to get paid better. I can't argue with the fact they they get paid crap everyone knows it. So they write tickets to cash in on court time... my proof is straight from the horses' mouth.. horses is pluralized.

Okay, so they are writting tickets to get court time, but are they bogus tickets? That is the question. If the person is actually breaking the law then they deserve the ticket. There is a fine line.

If the system was changed, then they wouldn't be doing it. If they didn't get aid allthe extra time, or hada cap on the amount of court time the could use etc, that would reduce it, but I have not seen any evidence to say that it is corrupt because they are writting tickets illegally.

 

[kenjo67]

And see I wish we had a cop sitting at the corner of my place. The amount of people running and rolling through our 4 way stop is crazy. There is a building on corner for manly self living disabled, one corner is a townhouse complex, one corner is a school and the last corner is houses. People go nuts through there at any of time of day. Even drying to beat out the crossing guards when they know that the guard is about to walk out an stop traffic. I have even seen some who just drive around the guard before the kids walk out, or drive after the kids have past them. It is sick.

Drive properly. It is that simple.

Rylan, Viking. I won't argur I broke the law but my point is when a LEO is constantly complaining of beign under paid and over worked and the courts are constantly saying they are log jammed and you have police officers wrting tickets and RECOMMENDING they go to court to fight the ticket and you have 2 officers who are doublign their pay checks due to court dates.. then yes... something is wrong.

 

[Rylan]

Rylan, Viking. I won't argur I broke the law but my point is when a LEO is constantly complaining of beign under paid and over worked and the courts are constantly saying they are log jammed and you have police officers wrting tickets and RECOMMENDING they go to court to fight the ticket and you have 2 officers who are doublign their pay checks due to court dates.. then yes... something is wrong.

I agree. Too many are not following the rules of the road and the system/people behind the contract that came up with the police contract have made it so.

Time to change the contract, time for people to follow the rules. Cops have nothing to do with it really. If you take the contract issues out and the driver issues out, where does that leave the cops in the equation.

Not able to make the money they are now, right?

Man I have really been defending cops today, and I actually really don't like most cops.

Fucking right something is really wrong here. Time to start drinking.

 

[kenjo67]

Okay, so they are writting tickets to get court time, but are they bogus tickets? That is the question. If the person is actually breaking the law then they deserve the ticket. There is a fine line.

If the system was changed, then they wouldn't be doing it. If they didn't get aid allthe extra time, or hada cap on the amount of court time the could use etc, that would reduce it, but I have not seen any evidence to say that it is corrupt because they are writting tickets illegally.

We can agree to disagree... They need to get paid better and their making it this way. Its not illegal for them to do it but i think its wrong, but all the power to them.. I would rather they hang out in high schools and arrest every little punk for smoking or selling pot. Or any of these punk kids if they suspect them or gang or illegal activity. I would rather the courts be jammed with those cases and they LEO get paid for spending time trying to get these punks put away.

 

[kenjo67]

The ironic thing here is that we are arguing about who is right for doing what and who is breakign the law... where are we right now? what hobby are we indulging in? who do we support on this reveiw board? .... kinda funny this conversation is in retrospect.

 

[Keebler Elf]

I agree, that is absolutely nuts.

So let's recoup the costs by DOUBLING the fines for all those people who are guilty as sin but insist on their day in court anyways. In other words, all the guilty people trying to get off on a technicality.

(As an aside, a love how it's the SYSTEM that's corrrupt and not all those guilty people out there who are breaking the driving laws. LOL!)

 

[Rylan]

The ironic thing here is that we are arguing about who is right for doing what and who is breakign the law... where are we right now? what hobby are we indulging in? who do we support on this reveiw board? .... kinda funny this conversation is in retrospect.

True, but I am good I haven't been involved in this hobby is almost a year.

 

[fuji]

I think the word "corrupt" takes it too far but there is plainly a conflict of interest here, one that should be eliminated.

If an officer can increase his salary by writing a bogus ticket that winds up requiring court time that at the very least leads to a temptation to write bogus tickets.

Officers perhaps should be paid a flat monthly fee for court time that on average winds up being fair compensation for the time they spend there, but does not in any way depend on the actual number of tickets they write.