Toronto Blue Jays 2011

[plyrs99]

well, AA is certainly not sitting back. reports have the jays dealing shawn marcum to the milwaukee brewers tonite for second base prospect brett lawrie and one other minor leaguer (nick bucci?).

sad to possibly see marcum go, as he is definitely a good pitcher, and has been a true professional during his stay in toronto.

here is where it gets interesting, as reports also state that they jays could land kansas city ace zack greinke, for a package including kyle drabek, travis snider and another minor leaguer. i hope the jays can keep drabek out of that possible deal.

if it all plays out, the deal would end up being marcum, drabek, snider and possibly another minor league player, for greinke, lawrie and others. tough to lose young talent, but you have to give up to get, and the jays would end up with the best player involved in the end (greinke), and one of the most highly rated second base prospects in the game (lawrie).

with the draft picks the jays have had last year, then the abundance of picks the jays have this year, as well as all the good young players they already have, this team could be very good in short order. the 2010 draft is reported to be fairly deep in talent.

quite a change in the outlook for the jays for this upcoming seaon, as compared to last year.

Plyrs99

 

[plyrs99]

by the way, sorry for jumping the gun on you shack!

Plyrs99

 

[Mervyn]

I hope that is all bs. I don't want a pitcher here who turned the Jays down when he was a free agent. not a good trade, not a good one at all.

 

[plyrs99]

mervyn, i do not recall greinke ever being a free agent. he has been a member of the royals for his whole MLB tenure.

as for the deals, if the jays do land greinke, he is definitely one of the AL's best pitchers. the only fear i see with him, is he only has two years left on his current contract, so the jays would be wise to negotiate long-term with him before they do anything. drabek is a long ways off from free agency, is very much cost-effective for the jays, and would be here alot longer than greinke would.

Plyrs99

 

[gcostanza]

I hope that is all bs. I don't want a pitcher here who turned the Jays down when he was a free agent. not a good trade, not a good one at all.

Zack Greinke is only in his 7th year in MLB. He has never been a free agent.

 

[The Oracle]

Zack Greinke is only in his 7th year in MLB. He has never been a free agent.

Yeah I was going to post that but why burst his bubble.

 

[mandrill]

shit! I hope this one works out. I HATE to see Shawn go.

 

[Mervyn]

mervyn, i do not recall greinke ever being a free agent. he has been a member of the royals for his whole MLB tenure.

as for the deals, if the jays do land greinke, he is definitely one of the AL's best pitchers. the only fear i see with him, is he only has two years left on his current contract, so the jays would be wise to negotiate long-term with him before they do anything. drabek is a long ways off from free agency, is very much cost-effective for the jays, and would be here alot longer than greinke would.

Plyrs99

Ok, my bad, must have confused him with another player. Still I don't like trading away for a player that only has a couple years on his contract, and who essentially is valued because he had one great year.
He's just an overhyped sub 500 carreer pitcher to me, do we really need to sign another AJ Burnett ? And he's a player who just recently took Toronto off his "no trade list" to me that means he's willing to finish out his contract here, but has no plans on staying.

And yes I see we have traded away Marcum, for ONE minor leaguer. Man, i hope they didn't make the trade simply because the kid was Canadian . . .

 

[Rockslinger]

Lawrie has all-star potential by all accounts.

Hate to lose Shaun but we are getting an everyday player. Where does that leave Aaron Hill?

 

[Perry Mason]

Where does that leave Aaron Hill?

Right where he is now... Lawrie will probably spend at least a good portion of 2011 in Las Vegas unless, of course, he surprises and breaks camp with the Jays... which would put Hill at 3rd and leave Bautista in right, which means Travis is odd man out...

But I don't think AA is finished. What we see now is only a part of what he is trying to do... he must have one or more other trades in the works. I can't see the BJ's just sitting Travis down; he is going to play full time in 2011... with the BJ's or with some other team!

Perry

 

[tribunus]

Apparently we've perked the Royals interest with Drabek. I'd do the rumoured Drabek, Snyder & something deal but I'd ask for Alex Gordon to be included with Grienke. Gordon was a former 2nd overall pick who hasn't developed as expected and KC is open to moving. I've read that AA likes him alot, and he plays 3rd as well as LF, two positions of need.

 

[Ironhead]

If your going to trade for Grienke why not keep Shaun Marcum ?? How much ahead would these two transactions make the Jays and we give up a top pitching prospect .. What's this excitment by everyone to get Grienke a career 60-67 pitcher coming off a medicore to bad year ..

Seriously ? It may have something to do with winning the AL Cy young award in '09.

 

[Ironhead]

Look beyond last season, Grienke is a couple of years younger has won a Cy Young and has not had TJ surgery.
I do not see Marcum, and I really like Marcum, winning a Cy Young in the future.

 

[gcostanza]

...Chris Carpenter had TJ surgery and has won how many CY Youngs ..

One.

 

[Ironhead]

I like Snider and Drabek and I would like to see if they are budding stars. Was it Cito or did we see what Snider really is ? Will Drabek become what most people seem to think he will be ?

Grienke IS a Cy Young winner and he did it with KC, one of the worst organizations over the last few seasons.

Now, to be clear ... I am not saying Grienke over Marcum, Drabek and Snider, you(Guy) asked a why take Grienke over Marcum, I was just answering.
Straight up I do prefer Grienke over Marcum, but add in Drabek and Snider ... I do not know. I just hope the Jays make the best move(s) and bring another WS to Toronto.

 

[Perry Mason]

Well, another way of looking at it is Snider, an outfielder, for Lawrie, a 2nd baseman (so far, so good!) and Marcum and Drabek for Greinke.

Everything considered, I don't know if I like it any better... but what do I know? I am a lawyer, he is a GM with lots of scouting assistance and evaluation; I am an outsider, he is an insider!

But it seems AA also is having doubts about pulling the trigger.

Perry

 

[The Oracle]

I am saying I would have liked Grienke and Marcum ... It doesn't make sense you trade a pitcher for a prospect and then trade prospects for a pitcher ... Just trying to understand the logic ... Trading a pitching prospect ( Drabek ) for an established starter
it means your trying to win now but then you trade a starting pitcher for a double AA prospect means your not trying to win now but in a couple of years ... Just wanting to know the logic ...

Grienke did win a Cy young with the worst club but in a league where their is a unbalanced schedule where teams like the Jays have to face the Yanks Red Sox and Rays more then anyone else means Grienke isn't facing those teams as much as a Toronto pitcher has too ... Also people say the reason he is on the block means the Royals are afraid he may start the 2011 season badly and his stock will drop even more ...

We are on the same page that we want the best move that will get us a World Series ...

Both solid points.

I don't like this trade for the Jays.

I would rather take my chances with Snider and Drabek developing into their potential.

Jays fans are not an impatient bunch so why not take a little time and get things right.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Keith Law

I heard Keith Law on thefan today and he said one of the reasons Milwaukee decided to part with Brett Lawrie is that they did'nt like his behaviour this past year. For one thing he got into a couple of arguments with the coaching staff down at AA this year, which disturbed the Brewers organization.

Plus, at the end of the season, Doug Melvin, the Brewers GM, and Brett Lawrie got into a vicious shouting match during a phone conversation because Lawrie refused to go to the Arizona Fall League to play 5 weeks of baseball like the Brewers hierarchy wanted him to.

Melvin has been fuming over the phone incident ever since and had let it be known in baseball circles that he was listening to offers for Lawrie because he did'nt want to put up with his act anymore.

Law said he thought the Jays got a pretty good return for Marcum and that he would'nt be overly concerned about behaviour of Lawrie because he's 20 years old. He said if Lawrie was 23 or 24 he'd be concerned; but, with a 20 year old you cut a bit more slack because really young players in a farm system sometimes lack maturity.

Law also mentioned that he thought Lawrie should be converted into a corner outfielder because he's a bit robotic and lacks a natural, graceful, free flowing, instinctive, quick reaction to balls put in play in the infield. But Law says Lawrie has very good foot speed and a strong throwing arm; so outfield is a more natural position for him.
http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20101207_173850_8676

......

As for the Grienke for Drabek and Snider thing. Law said the Jays are right to balk at that price because it's way too high a price for Grienke.

He said the Royals are eager to trade Grienke because for a guy who makes 12 or 13 million a season, he pitched poorly in 2010.

Law also mentioned the Royals are fearful that if Grienke pitches like a dog in April/ May in 2011 then the trade value of their asset will go down the sewer; so, they are eager to dump him now because they don't trust him anymore after the way he played in 2010.

 

[Serendipity]

Pitchers like Greinke on the free agent market will cost an arm & a leg. A trade would be significantly less risk considering how many draft picks the jays have. They can afford to part with Snider and/or other top prospects to get this done. Greinke has the Red Sox on his no trade list. He does not like the spot light. He can blend in with the other jays SP'ers. He would not have to be the "ace". Just go out and pitch ever 5 days. Can I invite you to think another way? You mentioned "he Jays dont need him". What if the rotation 1-5 was so flippin good it did not matter really who they threw out on the field or batting order? As long as they could produce respectably but dont have to be allstars?

Greinke last 3 years:
IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
202.1 202 87 78 21 56 183 3.47 1.28
229.1 195 64 55 11 51 242 2.16 1.07
220.0 219 114 102 18 55 181 4.17 1.25


If they trade Snider they will need to sign a FA to fill that hole.
Johnny Mac - spot duty

Just for the record.....I called the Jays going after Greinke long before it was news.
Lineup:
LF Davis
SS Escobar
CF Wells
RF Bautista
DH Lind & Arencibia
2nd Hill
1st Lind & Free agent/trade
3rd Free agent or trade
C Molina & Arencibia

Starters:
Romero
Morrow
Greinke
Cecil
Rzepczynski

How sick is that starting 5? Who can match that in the AL? No one!!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Just for the record.....I called the Jays going after Greinke long before it was news.
!!

Well you posted that on Nov 16/10 and that was ancient history news because Bob Elliott of the Sun wrote in his column Nov 10/10 that the Jays were asking Royals what they wanted in return for Greinke in a trade. So it looks like your Swami status is toast.

Maybe you don't consider Bob Elliott to be an authoritative source though and it was'nt really news till you gave the story your official nod or blessing.

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2010/11/11/16082131.html

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/40128917/ns/sports-player_news/