Toll lanes coming to QEW

[GameBoy27]

1,000 permits? WTF? Why not just a 407-type charge? 1,000 cars is absolutely nothing in terms of the sheer number of vehicles on the road.

It's a pilot project for starters. Furthermore, a 407 type charge involves a huge upfront costs, it would be difficult to add to existing roadways and would defeat the purpose of encouraging people to carpool and allowing vehicles with 2 or more occupants to drive for free.

 

[james t kirk]

Does anyone really think that once they have the mechanism in place for billing single drivers, that they won't throw the switch and hit everyone with this additional tax ????

EXACTLY.

You beat me to it. This is just a precursor to charging everyone all the time for accessing the highways.

The government is unable to control its spending and needs more and more money. It's sick already.

 

[Ref]

This is an excellent idea. Much better than those useless HOV lanes they have now.
I hope this idea spreads to other GTA highways wherever its possible:

I think it is a shitty idea.

If this government spent as much time controlling costs or finding inefficiencies in its internal processes as it does in dreaming up new ways to tax people we would be a lot better off.

Aside from the numerous challenges already mentioned, I can only imagine how much this will cost to implement.

I would prefer that we do away with all road tolls as well as the HOV lanes and open it up for all taxpayers to use as needed.

The current gas taxes and licensing fees more than cover the costs to maintain our roads so there is no need to find additional funds to cover these costs - Tolls are only a new form of tax.

 

[Butler1000]

So does this mean we are also going to discuss user fees for a lot of other services as well?

Let's put charges on pools, beaches, parks, bike lanes(licenses, hey if they get a separate lane they should pay for it) and more.

If we are a going to charge more for essential service like roads then why not elective things as well?

 

[t.o.leafs.fan]

So does this mean we are also going to discuss user fees for a lot of other services as well?

Let's put charges on pools, beaches, parks, bike lanes(licenses, hey if they get a separate lane they should pay for it) and more.

If we are a going to charge more for essential service like roads then why not elective things as well?

The point is to get cars off the road to alleviate congestion which costs the economy billions annually, not detract people from going to the beach or the park.

 

[Garrett]

I think it is a shitty idea.

If this government spent as much time controlling costs or finding inefficiencies in its internal processes as it does in dreaming up new ways to tax people we would be a lot better off.

This is bang on. These idiots are too scared to change anything, because someone may possibly complain, and they are incapable of building anything (because, they have never built anything).

 

[radagast]

EXACTLY.

You beat me to it. This is just a precursor to charging everyone all the time for accessing the highways.

The government is unable to control its spending and needs more and more money. It's sick already.

Yes, I distinctly remember Wynn running on a platform of toll roads. Wait...she didn't and is springing on this because the province is broke due to vote buying and financial mismanagment? Well I never...

 

[explorerzip]

IMO if you want to generate revenue off of toll roads, then they should toll the whole highway and not just 1 lane. Spread the cost across all highway users instead of a select few that are willing to pay. I'm not quite sure what the problem with toll roads is generally because transit is paid for with a combination of taxes and user fees. Why should highways be any different?

 

[explorerzip]

So does this mean we are also going to discuss user fees for a lot of other services as well?

Let's put charges on pools, beaches, parks, bike lanes(licenses, hey if they get a separate lane they should pay for it) and more.

If we are a going to charge more for essential service like roads then why not elective things as well?

There are already user fees for some of these things. It is only for larger groups though. Unless you put up fences and gates around parks, beaches and bike lanes, then I don't see how you would charge the users of these amenities. You could institute bike licensing, which would actually be a good idea.

 

[Garrett]

There are already user fees for some of these things. It is only for larger groups though. Unless you put up fences and gates around parks, beaches and bike lanes, then I don't see how you would charge the users of these amenities. You could institute bike licensing, which would actually be a good idea.

Bike licensing is an idiotic idea. The cost to administer outstrips everything (this is the government), it does not change the legal liability of cycling (which is already sufficient), and when you get into licensing multiple bikes, children, etc. it just gets worse.

We pay enough in taxes as it is. The government just needs to learn to manage like a business instead of inventing taxes to compensate for bad management.

 

[MRBJX]

The problem is very poor distribution of work and play spaces.

The fees dont help and wont help. Its the most assinine idea ever conceived. The ones who dont want to pay will just jam up the other lanes, the rich or dumb, can go in the hov/hot lane which will have higher traffic making it less useful anyway and overall as a system there are more cars on the road at a rate that exceeds this idiotic idea.

The problem is not being solved.

To solve the problem distribute WORK AND PLAY, the towers need to move out of toronto and draw people to work elsewhere. It starts there, not by trying to jam more people into an already packed space.

 

[|2 /-\ | /|/]

I love the idea. It will improve congestion and encourage other forms of commute and most importantly get those slow bothersome cheepo Mofos out of my way....yah baby, finally the province did something smart....I'll be using them a lot ....

As for payment options and enforcement it is easy and trivial...police pulls you over just show them you have a special transponder, or app or that special VIP sticker...wink wink

 

[AK-47]

What we need is flying cars

 

[explorerzip]

Bike licensing is an idiotic idea. The cost to administer outstrips everything (this is the government), it does not change the legal liability of cycling (which is already sufficient), and when you get into licensing multiple bikes, children, etc. it just gets worse.

We pay enough in taxes as it is. The government just needs to learn to manage like a business instead of inventing taxes to compensate for bad management.

The old run government like a business routine simply doesn't work. We're not distributing products or services to maximize profit. We're talking about services that benefit everyone regardless if you use them or not. Besides, if you want to have business-minded people in government we would have to pay them a competitive wage vs the private sector. Higher wages for staff equals higher taxes.

 

[explorerzip]

The problem is very poor distribution of work and play spaces.

The fees dont help and wont help. Its the most assinine idea ever conceived. The ones who dont want to pay will just jam up the other lanes, the rich or dumb, can go in the hov/hot lane which will have higher traffic making it less useful anyway and overall as a system there are more cars on the road at a rate that exceeds this idiotic idea.

The problem is not being solved.

To solve the problem distribute WORK AND PLAY, the towers need to move out of toronto and draw people to work elsewhere. It starts there, not by trying to jam more people into an already packed space.

That's why I said earlier that if they toll the road it should be for all road users, not just those that want to pay. That's how it works for all other forms of transit. If you fly, take a train, the subway, rent a car, etc then everyone pays. Sure, there are people that can pay more for a 'premium' ticket, but everyone still pays.

You know all those condo and commercial towers inside the downtown core pay taxes that go to the city right?

 

[Garrett]

The old run government like a business routine simply doesn't work. We're not distributing products or services to maximize profit. We're talking about services that benefit everyone regardless if you use them or not. Besides, if you want to have business-minded people in government we would have to pay them a competitive wage vs the private sector.

Uhhh, there are many service minded businesses, and the economics are universal. The only thing that is different is the ability for the government to print money and for there to be no correlation between holding a position and results.

As for compensation, the wages and pension with zero personal risk outstrip the private sector every time.

 

[basketcase]

IMO if you want to generate revenue off of toll roads, then they should toll the whole highway and not just 1 lane. Spread the cost across all highway users instead of a select few that are willing to pay. I'm not quite sure what the problem with toll roads is generally because transit is paid for with a combination of taxes and user fees. Why should highways be any different?

I agree that a special semi-toll lane is stupid, partly because of the cost and feasibility of enforcement. I would rather have an enforced HOV lane than a lane where some people pay to use it. And yes, drivers sometimes forget that public transit users pay some of their way.

On the topic of public transit, my biggest issue is where the toll money will be spent. If the goal is to reduce the number of cars then there has to be an alternative. Carpooling is part of the solution but so is public transit. If the money was spent on improving transit instead of going into general revenues I'd be happier.

I also think the DVP and Gardiner should be tolled so that those who live outside of the 6 will contribute to the maintenance cost of the artery they use regularly.

 

[explorerzip]

Uhhh, there are many service minded businesses, and the economics are universal. The only thing that is different is the ability for the government to print money and for there to be no correlation between holding a position and results.

As for compensation, the wages and pension with zero personal risk outstrip the private sector every time.

How would the economics work for charging user fees for a park or a beach? Put a barbed wire fence around it and charge every single person that walks through it?

If compensation were the only factor that attracted a person to work in government, we would already have a very efficient one.

 

[KBear]

Will be interesting to see if the cost of building new HOT lanes is covered by the revenue generated from people willing to buy the pass. Doubt this HOT project will work out any better than the UP express. Both cases there could be few people willing to be taken on a luxury ride by the Liberals.

 

[explorerzip]

I agree that a special semi-toll lane is stupid, partly because of the cost and feasibility of enforcement. I would rather have an enforced HOV lane than a lane where some people pay to use it. And yes, drivers sometimes forget that public transit users pay some of their way.

On the topic of public transit, my biggest issue is where the toll money will be spent. If the goal is to reduce the number of cars then there has to be an alternative. Carpooling is part of the solution but so is public transit. If the money was spent on improving transit instead of going into general revenues I'd be happier.

I also think the DVP and Gardiner should be tolled so that those who live outside of the 6 will contribute to the maintenance cost of the artery they use regularly.

I have no idea how the OPP is going to enforce these lanes since they might end blocking the HOT lane pulling people over.

Dead right with the DVP and Gardiner. If you drive down to NY, everyone pays a toll and Ontario plates don't except you from that. So people driving in from outside Toronto proper should pay for the upkeep and maintenance of the transportation system in the city including TTC / GO Transit.