Toll lanes coming to QEW

[AK-47]

This is an excellent idea. Much better than those useless HOV lanes they have now.
I hope this idea spreads to other GTA highways wherever its possible:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/12/07/toll-lanes-coming-to-ontario-highways.html

High-occupancy toll lane pilot project will allow motorists without passengers to pay to use high-occupancy-vehicle lanes.

A stretch of the Queen Elizabeth Way will become the first highway in the province to operate with high-occupancy toll lanes, Ontario’s transportation minister announced Monday morning. The high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes pilot project will be launched between Trafalgar Road in Oakville and Guelph Line in Burlington next summer, Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca said. “By providing more options, we are helping to manage congestion, which will help keep this region moving,” he said. The HOT lanes will allow motorists without passengers to pay to use high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes, which were designed to encourage carpooling.

Del Duca said about 1,000 permits would be issued during the pilot project, but did not say how much they would cost.
Travel in the HOT lanes will remain free for cars with two or more occupants. Last summer, temporary HOV lanes that were put in place during the Pan Am Games required at least three people in a vehicle.

HOT lanes were originally proposed as a way to raise money for infrastructure in Dalton McGuinty’s 2013 budget. Following the QEW pilot project, the first dedicated HOT lanes with electronic tolling will be on Highway 427, from south of Highway 409 to north of Rutherford Rd., when that highway extension opens by 2021. Del Duca said the government expects about five million single-occupancy vehicles will pay to use HOT lanes on Highway 427. “Anything that we can do to be creative, to alleviate congestion on our highways, helps,” he said.

“This is one part, it’s an important part, but it’s one part of our transportation plan for the region and the province.” The Liberals announced last month that they planned to create HOT lanes only where there are existing HOV lanes, which are free for any driver with at least one passenger. Del Duca added that HOV and HOT lanes could also be created on any new or expanded highways, like the stretch of Highway 401 near Cambridge, Ont., that the government is expanding.

His November announcement coincided with a report by Canada’s Ecofiscal Commission, a coalition of economists, which endorsed the idea of toll roads and “congestion fees” to help cities and provinces deal with traffic problems. But when Del Duca made the announcement, he received criticism from both Progressive Conservatives and New Democrats, who said Ontarians don’t want their roads taxed.

NDP leader Andrea Horwath went as far as to brand the roads with the name of a high-end carmaker. “The Lexus lanes are not something I think is the right way to go,” she said in November

 

[rhuarc29]

I'm generally against any government program that allows those who can afford to pay extra to get ahead of those who can't. If they need to raise money for additional infrastructure, they should raise taxes or stop spending so much on ineffective studies and consulting fees.

 

[JohnHenry]

I can foresee increasing road rage incidents when the left lane wants to merge with an exit lane that is backed up a kilometre.

 

[GameBoy27]

From an enforcement point of view, I'm wondering what what differentiates a solo occupant who is paying to use the HOT lane and someone who isn't? And if you're driving your car in the HOT lane with a passenger it's free but if you're driving solo you pay a to use it. Can someone explain how this will work?

 

[Mr Bret]

I recently drove a number of highways in the US that had this kind of set up. It seemed to work just fine.
There were some distances where the charge was as little as $.04. Hardly seems worth it. LOL

My thought as I observed the goings on was that this might be a good system for the GTA.

Like everything else, there will certainly be a period of adaptation, but after that I hope it goes smoothly.

 

[AK-47]

From an enforcement point of view, I'm wondering what what differentiates a solo occupant who is paying to use the HOT lane and someone who isn't? And if you're driving your car in the HOT lane with a passenger it's free but if you're driving solo you pay a to use it. Can someone explain how this will work?

No enforcement necessary. The end goal is to create a similar 407 toll system, where any car can drive in the toll lane so long as you pay your bill at end of every month.

Dont pay your bill and you're not getting a plate sticker, or maybe you'll even be heavily fined (or both).

Remember this just a pilot trial they are currently starting

 

[Frankunderwood]

No enforcement necessary. The end goal is to create a similar 407 toll system, where any car can drive in the toll lane so long as you pay your bill at end of every month.

Dont pay your bill and you're not getting a plate sticker, or maybe you'll even be heavily fined (or both).

Remember this just a pilot trial they are currently starting

You're missing Game Boy's point. Only single passenger vehicles should be billed for their HOT usage. How will they know if you're 2 or more people, and therefore shouldn't be billed? Seems like a system that's asking for trouble.

 

[oldjones]

I'm generally against any federal program that allows those who can afford to pay extra to get ahead of those who can't. If they need to raise money for additional infrastructure, they should raise taxes or stop spending so much on ineffective studies and consulting fees.

The is a Provincial matter. There are other threads where your opinion about federal programs would be relevant.

 

[GameBoy27]

No enforcement necessary. The end goal is to create a similar 407 toll system, where any car can drive in the toll lane so long as you pay your bill at end of every month.

Dont pay your bill and you're not getting a plate sticker, or maybe you'll even be heavily fined (or both).

Remember this just a pilot trial they are currently starting

Except the 407 has gantries with cameras at every on ramp/off ramp which takes photos of vehicle's without transponders and sends them a bill. Every car that drives on the 407 has to pay the toll.

With the HOT lanes, it's only the vehicle with a single occupant that has to pay. How do they know who to charge and who to not charge?

 

[oldjones]

You're missing Game Boy's point. Only single passenger vehicles should be billed for their HOT usage. How will they know if you're 2 or more people, and therefore shouldn't be billed? Seems like a system that's asking for trouble.

If the computer can read a license plate, it can certainly detect additional occupants. It can likely even flag cars whose passengers look suspiciously dummy-like.

Of course it will be troublsesome to enforce, only the Honour System wouldn't be. But just like the scofflaws who calculate an occasional gotcha as an affordable cost for a buncha free rides, the Province calculates that enforcement costs will pay a 'profit'.

Of course, if we hate the user-pay tolls we could take rhuarc's position and demand higher taxes on everyone to keep the highways 'free'.

 

[whitewaterguy]

Sitting here, eastern Ontario,in my Lazyboy lounger, atop a deep sheepskin, by the fireplace,looking out my windows at a couple of 100+ year old maple trees, sipping a Baileys and creamed infused coffee, thinking, " do I head out on my atv or horse on the local forest trails in a bit?"... But not until I stop chuckling about all of the frenzied insanity that goes on everyday in and around toronto. Thanks for the reminder as to how fortunate I am. Think I'll have another coffee before I head out

 

[AK-47]

Except the 407 has gantries with cameras at every on ramp/off ramp which takes photos of vehicle's without transponders and sends them a bill. Every car that drives on the 407 has to pay the toll.

With the HOT lanes, it's only the vehicle with a single occupant that has to pay. How do they know who to charge and who to not charge?

Because right now its only a pilot trial, and only 1,000 drivers are getting a special HOT pass. I assume they are just gonna try and see how it goes. If everything goes OK then HOV lanes for 2 passengers will be scrapped, and only HOT lanes will exist where everyone has to pay (regardless of whether they have 2 passengers or not).

I think its a great idea

 

[rhuarc29]

The is a Provincial matter. There are other threads where your opinion about federal programs would be relevant.

Meant to say "government", regardless of level.

 

[IM469]

I'm generally against any federal program that allows those who can afford to pay extra to get ahead of those who can't.

It's a provincial program - the Feds have their own means of soaking up your hard earned money. For those who have experienced tolls in the US - you can go from buffalo to NYC ( ~ 6 hours) for less cost than a trip across the city on the 407. Anytime a politician suggests a toll - take him out and shoot him.

It's a narrow minded stupid idea whose feasibility was tested and failed miserably with the games last summer. Traffic chaos ensued with more accidents, more tickets and obviously with a congested roadway now burdened with an additional traffic barrier - horrendous traffic delays. It's a f*cking stupid idea and that has only one purpose - soak more money from the taxpayer. We are paying 20% more in gas than the US (and we are the oil producer) because the money was suppose to pay for the maintenance of our highways. That represents billions of dollars. Your driver license was suppose to pay for the roads as with the escalating costs of your licence plates. This is in addition over the last few years of a 70% increase in commercial plate fees that unless there is a new effort to line the roads with gold foil - the government is simply feeding a financial black hole which needs more and more money until an entire economic collapse ensues that puts Greece's efforts to shame.

Please don't give me the Liberal/ Conservative tripe, I think of it like red and blue underwear - the colour is different but there is still an asshole underneath. Screw the Lexus lane jargon from the conservative MP's, they gave away a core highway crucial to the development of expanding Toronto to a foreign company with the promise we will never try to get our head out of the noose by building an alternative route. By the way, the lexus owners cruising the toll roads will get outright compensated or tax deductions so that you - the taxpayer are even paying for their ability to thumb their nose at you as they travel their exclusive lane.

Does anyone really think that once they have the mechanism in place for billing single drivers, that they won't throw the switch and hit everyone with this additional tax ????

 

[Indiana]

I'm generally against any government program that allows those who can afford to pay extra to get ahead of those who can't. If they need to raise money for additional infrastructure, they should raise taxes or stop spending so much on ineffective studies and consulting fees.

Funny, I feel the exact opposite.

 

[IM469]

If the computer can read a license plate, it can certainly detect additional occupants. It can likely even flag cars whose passengers look suspiciously dummy-like.

They aren't going to that kind of effort - the end game is to tax everyone in the HOV lane, then the highway and as soon as it's feasible - as soon as you back out your driveway. They are suggesting they are only putting in the tip but we all know how that story ends.

 

[GameBoy27]

If the computer can read a license plate, it can certainly detect additional occupants. It can likely even flag cars whose passengers look suspiciously dummy-like.

Did you even think about what you wrote? Explain how this high-tech computer system is going to work. It peers into the front and rear seats looking for more than one occupant? Then if it only sees a driver it sends the owner of the vehicle a bill? No margin for error there. I'm sure the systems are so sophisticated they can see a sleeping baby in a car seat in the back of an SUV with tinted windows, at night.

And as for flagging cars with passengers who look suspiciously dummy-like. Then what, they send a cop to pursue the vehicle and pull it over on the shoulder? Nothing like a cop with lights flashing at the side of the road to cause a traffic jam.

Of course it will be troublsesome to enforce, only the Honour System wouldn't be. But just like the scofflaws who calculate an occasional gotcha as an affordable cost for a buncha free rides, the Province calculates that enforcement costs will pay a 'profit'.

Just look at the current HOV lanes. Already filled with single occupant drivers. Cops would have to write an awful lot of tickets pay a "profit", what with them making 100K a year plus the cost of all the equipment they use.

Of course, if we hate the user-pay tolls we could take rhuarc's position and demand higher taxes on everyone to keep the highways 'free'.

I didn't say I hate user-pay tolls, I'm simply wondering how they will charge people for use. Demanding higher taxes would also work. On the other hand, if the government would stop pissing away billions (as the Auditor General recently pointed out) they wouldn't need to add tolls.

 

[rhuarc29]

If the computer can read a license plate, it can certainly detect additional occupants.

Not so sure about that. While that may be their eventual goal, I doubt the current technology is sufficient to do so, hence why they're starting with issuing permits.

 

[AK-47]

Sitting here, eastern Ontario,in my Lazyboy lounger, atop a deep sheepskin, by the fireplace,looking out my windows at a couple of 100+ year old maple trees, sipping a Baileys and creamed infused coffee, thinking, " do I head out on my atv or horse on the local forest trails in a bit?"... But not until I stop chuckling about all of the frenzied insanity that goes on everyday in and around toronto. Thanks for the reminder as to how fortunate I am

Sure, but what do the SP's in your neck of the woods look like?? :eyebrows:

 

[Keebler Elf]

1,000 permits? WTF? Why not just a 407-type charge? 1,000 cars is absolutely nothing in terms of the sheer number of vehicles on the road.