Toronto Passions

Tin Foil Hat Thread on 9/11

fuji

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Here's my opinion of what's going on here:

You guys were having a little cicle jerk, mastrubating over the fantasy of some sort of conspiracy theory that does not in reality exist. I came along and spoiled your party and now you're pissed off at me.

You guys have long since lost this debate and all you've got left are your various personal attacks.
 

fuji

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Mcluhan said:
As for the troll remark, you made it already.
I guess I'm still trying to work out whether you're actually dumb enough to believe the crap you write, or whether you are just having us all on.
 

Mcluhan

New member
fuji said:
Here's my opinion of what's going on here:

You guys were having a little cicle jerk, mastrubating over the fantasy of some sort of conspiracy theory that does not in reality exist. I came along and spoiled your party and now you're pissed off at me.

You guys have long since lost this debate and all you've got left are your various personal attacks.
The self delusion you paint tells the story of what you need. Go see the shrink. He'll explain to you that you lack control over your life, and why you're so hostile. You have strong antisocial traits. Its a pathology. i'll send you a link if you want to read more about it.
 

Mcluhan

New member
fuji said:
I guess we're done talking about your fake conspiracy then.

OK.
You're done. You tried to reduce this thread to name calling and the belittling of people and when ignored, you increased the name calling and the belittling. You have a need to insult people because i guess it allows you briefly to feel important. Sad and annoying but unfortunately all too common on message boards.

Definition of belittle:To represent or speak of as contemptibly small or unimportant; disparage:

That what you do, its your trademark. Now please go away.
 

fuji

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Mcluhan said:
You're done.
In other words you have no further points you can make, you've lost, and you've decided to troll by insulting me instead:

You tried to reduce this thread to name calling and the belittling of people and when ignored, you increased the name calling and the belittling. You have a need to insult people because i guess it allows you briefly to feel important. Sad and annoying but unfortunately all too common on message boards.

Definition of belittle:To represent or speak of as contemptibly small or unimportant; disparage:

That what you do, its your trademark. Now please go away.
Not gonna bite, troll, go masturbate somewhere else.
 

Mcluhan

New member
fuji said:
Not gonna bite, troll, go masturbate somewhere else.
FYI below is a clear match for what ails you, and you should be aware. In particular see Malignant narcissism below

Antisocial personality disorder

Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual as "...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood." Deceit and manipulation are considered essential features of the disorder. People having antisocial personality disorder are sometimes referred to as "sociopaths" and "psychopaths", although some researchers believe that these terms are not synonymous with ASPD.

Malignant narcissism


Otto Kernberg described malignant narcissism (also known as Narcissistic supply) as a syndrome characterized by a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial features, paranoid traits, and ego-syntonic aggression. An absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity) are often symptomatic of Malignant Narcissism. Pollock wrote: "The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty and sadism."[1] Kernberg claimed that malignant narcissism should be considered part of a spectrum of pathological narcissism, which he saw as ranging from the Cleckley's antisocial character (today's psychopath) at the high end of severity, to malignant narcissism, to NPD at the low end.[2]
 

Protoss

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Mar 22, 2004
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fuji said:
Be specific
I will. I am leaning more and more to the mischievous student theory with which I ended my previous post. And I'm gonna say that you are likely a fine arts first year for two reasons.
Engineering students would be too busy to engage in such nonsense and if they did they would be much more capable of pulling off a credible impersonation. Am I close?

So off with you. Back to study hall. It's almost exam time.

If I fail to respond to any more of of your replies to this please be aware that it is NOT because I am stumped for an answer. It is because I am ignoring you. Enough time wasted.

Protoss
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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About time this thread finally devolved into juvenile character assassination. What took you guys so long?
 

Mcluhan

New member
Asterix said:
About time this thread finally devolved into juvenile character assassination. What took you guys so long?
Some people may find this thread worthwhile. It degenerated with a rash of name calling for one reason only and Protoss just exorcised that.
 

onthebottom

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Mcluhan said:
Fuji, you're an idiot. That's obvious. As for the troll remark, you made it already. You lack attention in life, and you get it an obstructive nasty way. You pull people down to your level, rather than rise to their's. Its a common failing among many people, and you in particular. Some would pity you. If you we're my dog, I'd put you out of your misery.
Just saying....

Mcluhan said:
Ad hominem abusive

Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

This tactic is frequently employed as a propaganda tool among politicians who are attempting to influence the voter base in their favor through an appeal to emotion rather than by logical means, especially when their own position is logically weaker than their opponent's. Another example is calling conspiranoia to a conspiracy theory that one does not like.

Examples:

* "You can't believe Jack when he says God exists because he doesn't even have a job."
* "Candidate Jane Jones's proposal X is ridiculous. She was caught cheating on her taxes in 2003."

Ad hominem circumstantial

Ad hominem circumstantial involves pointing out that someone is in circumstances such that he is disposed to take a particular position. Essentially, ad hominem circumstantial constitutes an attack on the bias of a source. The reason that this is fallacious in syllogistic logic is that pointing out that one's opponent is disposed to make a certain argument does not make the argument, from a logical point of view, any less credible; this overlaps with the genetic fallacy (an argument that a claim is incorrect due to its source).

On the other hand, where the source taking a position seeks to convince us by a claim of authority, or personal observation, observation of their circumstances may reduce the evidentiary weight of the claims, sometimes to zero.[4]

Examples:

* "Tobacco company representatives should not be believed when they say smoking doesn't seriously affect your health, because they're just defending their own multi-million-dollar financial interests."

* "He's physically addicted to nicotine. Of course he defends smoking!”

* "What do you know about politics? You're too young to vote!"

Mandy Rice-Davies's famous testimony, during the Profumo Affair, "Well, he would [say that], wouldn't he?", is an example of a valid circumstantial argument. Her point is that since a man in a prominent position, accused of an affair with a callgirl, would deny the claim whether it was true or false, his denial, in itself, carries little evidential weight against the claim of an affair. Note, however, that this argument is valid only insofar as it devalues the denial; it does not bolster the original claim. To construe evidentiary invalidation of the denial as evidentiary validation of the original claim is fallacious (on several different bases, including that of argumentum ad hominem); however likely the man in question would be to deny an affair that did in fact happen, he could only be more likely to deny an affair that never did.

Ad hominem tu quoque



Ad hominem tu quoque (lit: "You too!") refers to a claim that the source making the argument has spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with the argument. In particular, if Source A criticizes the actions of Source B, a tu quoque response is that Source A has acted in the same way.

Examples:

* "You say that stealing is wrong, but you do it as well."

* "He says we shouldn't enslave people, yet he himself owns slaves"

[edit] Guilt by association
Main article: Association fallacy

Guilt by association can sometimes also be a type of ad hominem fallacy, if the argument attacks a source because of the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument.

This form of the argument is as follows:

Source A makes claim P.
Group B also make claim P.
Therefore, source A is a member of group B.

Example:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, therefore you are a communist"

This fallacy can also take another form:

Source A makes claim P.
Group B make claims P and Q
Therefore, Source A makes claim Q.

Examples:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, and they believe in revolution. Thus, you believe in revolution."

A similar tactic may be employed to encourage someone to renounce an opinion, or force them to choose between renouncing an opinion or admitting membership in a group. For example:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable. You don't really mean that, do you? Communists say the same thing. You're not a communist, are you?"

Guilt by association may be combined with ad hominem abusive. For example:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, and therefore you are a communist. Communists are unlikeable, and therefore everything they say is false, and therefore everything you say is false."

A reductio ad Hitlerum argument can be seen as an example of a "guilt by association" fallacy, since it attacks a viewpoint simply because it was supposedly espoused by Adolf Hitler, as if it is impossible that such a man could have held any viewpoint that is correct.

Inverse ad hominem

An inverse ad hominem argument praises a source in order to add support for that source's argument or claim. A fallacious inverse ad hominem argument may go something like this:

"That man was smartly-dressed and charming, so I'll accept his argument that I should vote for him"

As with regular ad hominem arguments, not all cases of inverse ad hominem are fallacious. Consider the following:

"Elizabeth has never told a lie in her entire life, and she says she saw him take the bag. She must be telling the truth."

Here the arguer is not suggesting we accept Elizabeth's argument, but her testimony. Her being an honest person is relevant to the truth of the conclusion (that he took the bag), just as her having bad eyesight (a regular case of ad hominem) would give reason not to believe her. However, the last part of the argument is false even if the premise is true, since having never told a lie before does not mean she isn't now.

Appeal to authority is a type of inverse ad hominem argument.
 

Protoss

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Mar 22, 2004
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I too . . .

. . . feel ashamed of myself. :( I truly am interested in a constructive exchange of ideas. We all need to think before we press that send button.
Lets move on . . . gently and carefully.

Protoss
 

onthebottom

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Mcluhan said:
Yes, i came down to his level. Guilty as charged. I'll avoid that in future, hopefully. Lesson: never feed the Tr___s.
There is that old saying about casting the first stone.....

OTB
 

fuji

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Protoss said:
You fail.

I asked you for constructive criticism of the POINTS I made and you responded with more of your mindless personal attacks. You have nothing to add to this forum, you are a time wasting moron.
 

fuji

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Mcluhan said:
Yes, i came down to his level. Guilty as charged. I'll avoid that in future, hopefully. Lesson: never feed the Tr___s.
I made a series of points and you responded to them by insulting me so I would say you have not yet come up to my level. Try responding to my points and you might earn back some respect.
 

fuji

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Here is a point again, look at that an actual point, let's see if any of you can muster a response:

You have all cited the "scientific community" several times. Where is the peer reviwed journal article from an expert who is speaking within his or her specialty on the topic?

So far all you have offered up is family doctors pretending to be civil engineers, fake journals, software engineers pretending to be experts on construction, and so on.

That is not the scientific community. The scientific community speaks through a process of peer review in credible journals.

In other words, where's the beef? Where is even ONE credible statement from a credible expert on this topic that supports your conspiracy theory?

Waiting.
 

fuji

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Here is another actual point that has never been answered:

Several of you cited "controlled demolition" and posted videos of what a conventional building looks like when it goes down in a controlled demolition, when its main supports are blown up.

The WTC did not have that sort of structure. It was built as a giant tube with relatively weak and relatively few central supports. That is why when the exterior wall failed the internal supports weren't sufficient to hold the building up.

That is why it went straight down to the ground, rather than toppling as in those videos.

Anyone care to respond to this actual point?
 

fuji

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Here is an actual point, the third one for those of you who are counting the endless stream of personal attacks coming from protoss and mcluhan:

Some of you have cited multiple explosions. The shock wave from the blast would have travelled faster than the falling debris. The shock wave would have travelled through air, in such things as elevator shafts, and blown out from the core of the building on all floors, especially the basement.

Shortly after that, between 9 and 10 seconds to be precise, based on the height of the impact and the time it takes an object in free fall to reach the ground from that height, debris falling from the impact site would have hit the ground creating another loud boom to those in the basement underneath it.

Anyone care to dispute that?
 

fuji

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Here is a further actual point:

The WTC collapsed from the top down. Had it been blown up with controlled explosives in the basement you would have seen the whole building fall at the same time--the top, the bottom would be moving together.

Instead what you see is a wave of disintegration fall down the building FROM THE POINT OF IMPACT, at what roughly appears to be the speed of an object in freefall, although in reality about 30% slower than that: It would take an object in freefall 9-10 seconds to hit the ground from that height, whereas it took the building about 12-13 seconds to come down.

That is consistent with the idea that the portion of the building above the impact site fell through the damaged floor and started smashing the support columns below it, which offered up some but not much resistance as it fell.

Anyone care to take issue with that?
 
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