Tin Foil Hat Thread on 9/11

[Mcluhan]

Someone will no doubt know the answer to this. For the record i have ALWAYS been a non-Conspriacy type on 9/11. I have listened to all the crazies from Alex Jones down. That said, yesterday while watching a few videos of people jumping from the north tower a thought struck me, and for just a dangerous minute, its seemed i was losing perspective. The question that derailed me momentarily was on the odds on two buildings collapsing (forget building 7, don't even go there) in this manner, each ploughed into by a passenger jet. Both buildings engineered and certified to withstand that same event. Has this simple question ever perplexed anyone here? Two planes? Two buildings collapsing. Each one, engineered to withstand the event. At the time, eight years ago, it seemed to make sense. Yesterday, not as much. Do the odds seem a bit unlikely?

In other news, Richard Clarke is now writing fiction books.

 

[WoodPeckr]

At the time, eight years ago, it seemed to make sense. Yesterday, not as much. Do the odds seem a bit unlikely?

In other news, Richard Clarke is now writing fiction books.

That is exactly what fuels all the Conspriacy hype on 9/11...

 

[Mcluhan]

That is exactly what fuels all the Conspriacy hype on 9/11...

I guess i am the slow one.

It suddenly hit me last night...one building, the first in history, against certified engineering principles, one building i could have believed. But now I am looking at a replay of the event, two jets, two buildings. The odds seem out of this world. Where do i send in for the hat? I want a blue one.

 

[WoodPeckr]

LOL!
Just do the Google, like Dubya does!

There are plenty of sites dealing with 9/11 and a few probably sells nice blue ones....

 

[y2kmark]

Why??

Someone will no doubt know the answer to this. For the record i have ALWAYS been a non-Conspriacy type on 9/11. I have listened to all the crazies from Alex Jones down. That said, yesterday while watching a few videos of people jumping from the north tower a thought struck me, and for just a dangerous minute, its seemed i was losing perspective. The question that derailed me momentarily was on the odds on two buildings collapsing (forget building 7, don't even go there) in this manner, each ploughed into by a passenger jet. Both buildings engineered and certified to withstand that same event. Has this simple question ever perplexed anyone here? Two planes? Two buildings collapsing. Each one, engineered to withstand the event. At the time, eight years ago, it seemed to make sense. Yesterday, not as much. Do the odds seem a bit unlikely?

In other news, Richard Clarke is now writing fiction books.

The certification of "ability to withstand such an event" was obviously very wrong. It would have been more bizarre if one tower had colapsed and the other had not.

 

[danmand]

I am not a conspiracy guy either. What I find difficult to believe,
from 30 years running among other things cosultancy companies,
is how 4 out of 4 teams, each of 5 people, managed to get on the right
planes and then managed to take over their planes. That is 20 people.

If I had tried to organize that, I would have considered it a success if 16 of
the people got on their planes,
and maybe 2 of the teams succeded in taking over the planes.

How could this operation unfold almost flawlessly?

 

[basketcase]

Could it be that the buildings were not engineered to withstand that large of a plane with that much jet fuel still in them.

 

[slowandeasy]

Could it be that the buildings were not engineered to withstand that large of a plane with that much jet fuel still in them.

I think the WTC's were completed in 1971. It is safe to say that they did not have the sophistication to model such a scenario. I also believe that they probably did not account for a number of paramaters including so much jet fuel, such a large plane, and someone intentionally directing the plane to cause maximum damage.

I don't know that if they have changed jet fuel to be more explosive or that will cause it to burn at such higher temperatures to weaken the structure.

 

[johnhenrygalt]

(forget building 7, don't even go there)

Why would anyone want to go to building 7 anyway? And even if you wanted to go to building 7, you can't; it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[slowandeasy]

How could this operation unfold almost flawlessly?

Element of surprise, pure dumb luck, in addition to the lack of preparation.

More than any stupid conspiracy theory, I would have loved to have been there when Osama and his buddies realized that their plan had succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. I can imagine them saying "holy camel dung, it worked better than that time when we replaced Habeeb's wife with a man in a burka.. Habeed said it was the best BBBJ he had ever gotten, he still has not forgiven me for that one."


I also would have liked to have been there when it clicked how it was going to affect them.

 

[onthebottom]

I feel that 9/11 conspiracy theories should be classified as a unique form of mental retardation.....

And what were you doing watching suffering people leap from a building in a moment of crisis.... is this your idea of entertainment?

OTB

 

[danmand]

I feel that 9/11 conspiracy theories should be classified as a unique form of mental retardation.....

I am willing to go along with that, as long as you are willing to also
classify blind trust in government as another unique form of mental retardation.

 

[onthebottom]

I am willing to go along with that, as long as you are willing to also
classify blind trust in government as another unique form of mental retardation.

I don't trust governments, every interaction I've ever had indicates to me that governments are unreliable, inefficient and unresponsive.

OTB

 

[danmand]

I don't trust governments, every interaction I've ever had indicates to me that governments are unreliable, inefficient and unresponsive.

But you still believe that Iraq had WMD, and that Saddasm Hussein was behing 9/11.

 

[onthebottom]

But you still believe that Iraq had WMD, and that Saddasm Hussein was behing 9/11.

We know Iraq had WMD because he used them on the Kurds, he just didn't still have them.... yes, a failure of government. And no, I don't believe Saddam was behind 9/11, nor do I believe that throwing 800B at the economy will fix it or that the Federal Government should be delivering health care.....

OTB

 

[WoodPeckr]

We know Iraq had WMD because he used them on the Kurds,...OTB

More correctly, we knew Saddam had them because DICK & Rummy gave them to his ally Saddam to do with as he pleased....

 

[WoodPeckr]

I don't trust governments, every interaction I've ever had indicates to me that governments are unreliable, inefficient and unresponsive.

OTB

Does this mean you no longer will 'cheerlead' for Team 'w' and their legacy?....

 

[WoodPeckr]

I know Mcluhan said "don't even go there" in regards to Building 7, but that is the interesting one. If the planes caused the twin towers collapes, why was 7 affected and of course the interesting twist that BBC reported 7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it actually had.

It does make you wonder.

Building 7 is the real fly in the ointment!
Critical financial records from Wall St and elsewhere were lost forever there in Building 7 and strangely were NOT BACKED UP, or so they say, which seem very unusual given their importance.

 

[Davy.Biggie]

You know, I watched this thing Live on CNN. I was at work and had been to NYC maybe 3 months beforehand.
What gets me is the way testimonials change over time.
Originally the architectural firm said "these building were designed to withstand an accident of this nature". The buillding should have held, the only explanation would be the riveting holding the pieces together.
Then their story changed to "the building was designed to withstand a plane crashing into it but were designed based on the data of the planes in use at the time" and then they started saying "it came in at the perfect angle and damaged the structure in the right way".
I don't like the thought of a nation's leaders being able to orchestrate an attack like that in a major metropolis but what makes me believe some of the conspiracy theories is the following.
First, most major cities have a no fly zone and only pre-determined paths of flight into and out of the airport. the airports also have military personel on hand 24/7, and have had that resource for years, in order to thwart any unauthorized plane from causing damage to the city. Why didn't the fighters come out sooner?
Second. I used to love watching the controlled demolition of buildings on Discovery channel. Seeing the towers fall on a live feed and neatly imploding falling almost straight down one floor on top of the other I said to myself "Self, that looks like a demolition" I heard a fireman saying "I heard multiple bangs one after another as it started to fall so we got the hell out of there fast". Then another said the same thing. But 5 days later these things weren't ever aired again. Nothing was ever said about it. And if you play the tapes of the building falling in slow motion you can see the widows being blown out of the floors one by one blowing outwards as the floors above tumble down.
I still think it would have had to be planned for at least 2 years beforehand to be a conspiracy but in reality there is no proof to support or deny it. Without being an engineer and seeing the blueprints, doing the math, I don't see this having any answers.

 

[WoodPeckr]

... I heard a fireman saying "I heard multiple bangs one after another as it started to fall so we got the hell out of there fast". Then another said the same thing. But 5 days later these things weren't ever aired again. Nothing was ever said about it....

I was at work that day where every office had radios playing the 'live events on 9/11' as they were unfolding. Me along with a couple co-workers distinctly recall the radio news reporters talking about only 1 highjacked airliner being still in the air off course, Flight 93, the one heading towards the WH which 'crashed' in Pennsylvania. We remember radio reporters say "a couple times" not to worry because Flight 93 was being tailed by USAF Fighter Jets! After Flight 93 'crashed' there was no mention anymore of those UASF Fighter Jets who were 'tailing' Flight 93.....