Thinking about buying a hybrid...

[Cinema Face]

I’m in the market for a new car. I’m doing a lot of driving for work and racking up the km’s. With gas going up, expecting to hit $1.50 or so, fuel economy is a priority as well as overall cost of ownership. I’m thinking about a hybrid and I’m leaning towards the Honda Civic Hybrid.

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-hybrid/


The questions that come to mind are:

Do they actually deliver the fuel economy as advertised?

I know that they use Nickel Metal hydride batteries. I’ve heard that they’re about $3000 to replace. Is there an issue with battery life, as with NiMH laptop batteries?

How reliable are they as opposed to more conventional transportation?

Any thoughts?

 

[tboy]

I don't have any direct experience with them but as for a new vehicle, hybrid or not, you do have a warranty to cover anything bumper to bumper for x number of years.

Maybe leasing is something you should be looking into? Since you say "you're doing it for work" your leasing costs can be written off immediately and at whatever rate you use the vehicle for business. If you purchase, you can only deduct 20% of the vehicle cost per year for 5 yrs.

One benefit of leasing is the warranty will cover you for the total time the vehicle is in your possession and if the longevity of the batteries ever become an issue, it won't be when you own the vehicle.

For the record, I understand the hybrids cost more than a comparative gas vehicle. You'll have to weigh the various costs to see if one is right for you.

Yes, they do get amazing fuel economy because the engine isn't running all the time. Something I hear is a problem with hybrids is that they have terrible acceleration and no trunk space (because you're carrying the batteries)......

 

[goodtime]

I was hoping to pickup one of these
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...machines/2009_porsche_cayenne_hybrid_car_news

 

[Aardvark154]

I’m in the market for a new car. I’m doing a lot of driving for work and racking up the km’s. With gas going up, expecting to hit $1.50 or so, fuel economy is a priority as well as overall cost of ownership. I’m thinking about a hybrid and I’m leaning towards the Honda Civic Hybrid.

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-hybrid/


The questions that come to mind are:

Do they actually deliver the fuel economy as advertised?

I know that they use Nickel Metal hydride batteries. I’ve heard that they’re about $3000 to replace. Is there an issue with battery life, as with NiMH laptop batteries?

How reliable are they as opposed to more conventional transportation?

Any thoughts?

The fuel milage is as advertised, however, it is not as good on highways such as the 401 as it is on rural roadways the 80 km/h to 85 km/h (50-55 mph) type - which actually has to do with driving speed.

Do get the extended warranties - lots of electronics.

They definately save fuel over conventional models, then again they do cost more than conventional vehicles.

The above from personal experience.

 

[Meister]

If the Hybrid is an extra 10k what are you actually saving?

 

[tboy]

If the Hybrid is an extra 10k what are you actually saving?

arguably the environment.....but the long term impact of the battery issue has yet to be resolved or determined.

The cost is one reason why I didn't buy a small enduro motorcycle to get around the city. I need a pickup for work and thought getting something like this for times I didn't need the truck would be worthwhile. However, after adding up the vehicle cost, insurance, maintenance etc (about $3500.00) I found that I could buy a shit load of gas with that.

Everyone's needs are different but say a hybrid is $8 - $10K more than a conventionally powered vehicle, you can buy a heck of a lot of gas for $8K.

For eg: if a matrix gets 30 mpg or 48 kpg or 3.78 Litres that would give you a cost of $4.53 (at $1.20 per litre). That equates to $0.15 per mile or $0.094 per kilometer.

Now if a hybrid gets 45 mpg or 72 kpg or 3.78 litres that would give you a cost of $0.10 per mile or $0.062 per kilometer. About 3 cents per kilometer savings. At $7K more, you'd have to travel 233,333 kilometers to just break even.

BTW: the warranty on the batteries is 8 or 10 yrs depending on where you live....it may be different in Canada though.

 

[landscaper]

a hybrid will save you gas money where ever you drive that does not require the gas engine to engage. Highway driving actually uses the gas engine all the time to maintain the speed. If you are doing city driving yes they will save you a lot of money on gas, the question becomes if the gas savings are worth more than the added ciost of the vehicle.

An option is the Mercedes smart car, the 3 cylinder diesel gets exceptional mileage and it can go on the highway sort of.

Top speed of the vehical is about 120kph, I have seen some on the 401/404 but the poor little engine is about firewalled the passenger was peddalling for all he was worth and the sail was up. But for city driving with the occasional highway trip it could be a good deal.

 

[mindingmyownbusiness]

Hi Landscaper,

I had run into someone from Oakville driving a smartcar close to my cottage, in the French River area (400KM north of Toronto) I asked him how it was on the highway and he said he had no problems driving up, was able to stay in the right hand lane on the 400, therefore didn't get in anyones way and was ble to keep pace with traffic on the two-lane highway 69. The only problem he did say he had was when he was trying to pass, using the intermittent passing lanes 69 has. He had to hang back and then accelerate timing it so that he was at top speed just as he reach the start of the passing lane.

 

[train]

There was a study in one of the newspapers ( Star I think) a couple of weeks ago. The cost of owning a hybrid ( purchase price and operating combined ) over a 4 year period was $2 to $5 thousand higher for the hybrid depending on which model . Most of the comparisons were where there was an equivalent or same model gas vehicle offered.

Operating costs were lower with the hybrid but they did not offset the greater purchase price. I think they assumed repairs would be the same.

The only justification is environmental in which case you may also wish to consider the super fuel efficient cars such as the Civic etc.

 

[landscaper]

the lack of power in the little diesel is an issue on limited access highways but if you drive defensivly you will be fine.

The cost premium on a hybrid will not go away it is " the price of being green" the question is if you want to pay that price.

The question of maintenace costs on hybrids has not been settled although I think anyone who belives they will be in line with currant costs needs to invite the rest of us to their calm quiet nice little world

 

[chazz_matzz]

My advise would be to wait another month or so for the new Jetta and Rabbit diesel.

The new model features a 2.0 diesel with 150hp and 2XX ft/lbs of torque.

It gets amazing mileage and will start at $24,XXX

I am going to get one for my S.O

 

[tboy]

As there is another thread already on smart cars I won't go into it much here but IMO buying a smaller more fuel efficient single power vehicle is the way to go now. At least until electrics/hybrid costs come down. As for them being green, there is a thread on that as well. A study was done and it was found that a Hummer is actually more green than a hybrid.

I just can't help thinking: unless they figure out a way to 100% recycle the batteries and or electrics in hybrids, in about 10 yrs we're going to hear a big OOPS in regards to hybrids. Can you imagine the environmental impact of all these heavy batteies and electrical components going into landfills?

i wouldnt get a diesel. the price is going up faster than petrol. as far as hybrids they are good if you drive a lot. the star article only looked at if you drove 24000 km or less a year.

As I said in my post: you'd have to travel 233,333 kms before you start to realize a savings.

 

[landscaper]

i wouldnt get a diesel. the price is going up faster than petrol. as far as hybrids they are good if you drive a lot. the star article only looked at if you drove 24000 km or less a year.

Once you factor in the increased fuel mileage and lower maintenace costs the diesel still comes out way ahead.

As far as milage is concerned the more mileage that you put on any vehicle the hif=gher the maintence is. In the case of hybrides with the large batery packs and electronics nobody knows what the life cycle of the bateries is. The more recharge cycles that you put on a battery the shorter its usable life. The engineers who design these things put their best estimate ( read guess) on the life of the batteries . The estimate will be similar to the EPA gas milage estimates that are used for cars.... if you drive it exactly the way the test was done in the same conditions you should get something similar to our results.

The engineers will later report that

a) the car was not driven the way it should have been
b) was not maintaoned according to their instructions
c) the driving was not done in an environment similar to their test
d) anything else that could change thier estimate.

All of these things will change engineers estimates regarding the life cycle of a vehicle or the fuel efficiency of the vehicle.

The end result is as always what happens at the end

 

[wetnose]

Once you factor in the increased fuel mileage and lower maintenace costs the diesel still comes out way ahead.

The end result is as always what happens at the end

Another advantage of diesel is that you can do the greasecar.com mod - allowing your vehicle to run on french fry oil...which is basically free.

 

[goodtime]

If you are looking for hybrid have you looked at Toyota?

I would get rid of any hybrid after 4 yrs as the battery has about 5yrs of life.

Honda and Toyota are very reliable and the milage is very good.

That's why Porsche suv will be using Toyota hybrid technology.

 

[to-guy69]

Healthwise, hybrids have high EMF levels (electromagnetic field) which no one talks about.

If you are prone to taking longer than usual drives and are very sensitive to light, sound, etc. then you may not want to risk having your hands and feet "tingle" every time you drive.

 

[tboy]

Healthwise, hybrids have high EMF levels (electromagnetic field) which no one talks about.

If you are prone to taking longer than usual drives and are very sensitive to light, sound, etc. then you may not want to risk having your hands and feet "tingle" every time you drive.

oh shit, now all the ladies will be trying to rewire it so the seat makes their humina huminas "tingle" while they drive......lol

 

[Gentle Ben]

A good freind has a company supplied Ford (Escape I think) hybrid, hes not that sold on it, the big thing, when its on electric there's no Air Conditioning,so in stop & go driving , the ac is on & off, the car tends to warm up , and if you're stuck on hwy 401 in a traffic jam, no AC!

 

[hungry]

There was a study in one of the newspapers ( Star I think) a couple of weeks ago. The cost of owning a hybrid ( purchase price and operating combined ) over a 4 year period was $2 to $5 thousand higher for the hybrid depending on which model . Most of the comparisons were where there was an equivalent or same model gas vehicle offered.

Operating costs were lower with the hybrid but they did not offset the greater purchase price. I think they assumed repairs would be the same.

The only justification is environmental in which case you may also wish to consider the super fuel efficient cars such as the Civic etc.

I read this too, in the Star. Overall, it costs more to buy a hybrid over a conventional car. If one does a lot of city driving, there can be some fuel savings. If you drive on the highway a lot, I can't see any. But, one of the things that is not talked about is, when the car is to be removed from the streets. The carbon footprint to dispose of the battery is huge! Maybe higher that the carbon a gas engine produces. This is not talked about very much. How do you dispose of a massive bettery full of who knows what, when the car is crushed?!

Further, replacing the battery. It might last 3 years. So if you lease a vehicle, who cares. For resale, who wants to but a used Hybrid that needs a new battery for 3K? I am sorry, they have to do better? I look, at those Hybrid Buses driving around. Where are they going to dispose of those monstorous batteries? A diesel bus usually lasts 20 plus years. There batteries won't.

 

[Serpent]

Mini Cooper anyone?