Touche
I am not an expert on political leaders but I think the framers of the American constitution were amazingly thoughtful
They were, but they made all kinds of mistakes in designing their system since they were making it up as they went along.
They were making guesses at theory while also negotiating among various groups and factions that wanted things for their own reasons.
The result is an amazing document that was a real step forward - and was also full of ideas that have proven to be terrible and difficult to fix.
I was using hyperbole to make my point but my point remains great leaders are seldom in politics
Sure.
But they are also seldom everywhere else.
Counting on Philosopher Kings is a terrible idea.
Democracy is never going to get you that except by accident anyway.
Presidents and Prime Ministers shouldn't be held up to be gods and heroes anyway.
They should be competent managers and decent people.
Of course. We have amazing technology because of those small handful of geniuses who created it but they went into the humanities and science rather than waste their life away in the cess pool of politics
What?
OMG, is this "the Great, Indespensible Man" theory of things?
Holy fuck - we need
fewer people who think they are geniuses and more people who just do the work and make things advance.
It is a tragedy that public service and politics have been so devalued in our culture, I agree.
But it isn't like there are magic people out there who will fix it all if we only get them in power.
The political system does not seek out the best of us to lead
You're talking to someone who has seriously entertained (and still does in some form ) the idea that elections should be replaced by a lottery.
The point of Democracy is
not to find "the best of us to lead". The myth of heroic leadership is a trap.
It isn't even primarily about collective decision making.
The point of Democracy to force competition for power into peaceful channels and limit the ability of one group to entirely capture the state.
Trump has intelligence after all he became President as an outsider
but so did Hitler and now Putin . I find Trump an enigma because he had the brains to become President but says the most childish beliefs
and has a mental disease in meglomania and now dementia
Why does that make him an enigma?
He had the power, influence, and luck to become President.
And some of that involved a certain type of intelligence.
But there isn't some generalized "if they are smart about this they are smart about the other thing" system in human brains.
It can often line up like that, but there doesn't seem to be anything requiring it.
I did not say they were the dumbest of us
You said they were "the least of us".
Ok, I enjoy your insight and so I need to refine what I said.
I was using hyperbole, I assumed that was obvious
We are not lead by the greatest of us and all too often by the least of us
Outside of Trump, I can't think of one time we've been led by the "least" of us.
Maybe I just don't know what you mean when you say that.
I don't even know what metric you would use for that.
There are so many ways you can take the measure of someone and decide they are great.
Even Trump, who is a genuinely horrible human being on many of those measures, probably isn't the worst on ALL of them.
That was before this election, he is now way over the hill and the least of us .
Biden is still probably more effective and more on the ball than most people.
No where
near the least of us.
I'd trust him in power over just about every single person on this board.
Of the four cadidates in this election only one is not the least of us, not that they are stupid, just the least of us to be leaders
OK, I clearly have NO idea what you mean by "the least of us".
This statement makes no sense to me at all.
I am using an objective standard. Our leaders should be more qualified to do there job than anyone on the planet is in theirs as it is the most important job. They should be better at what they do than the geniuses who flew us to the moon, they are not
So you have never thought a single leader on the planet was up to snuff?
Wow.
That's depressing.
I think that is an insane, unreal, and non-objective standard, but ok, if that's your standard then obviously all 4 candidates fail to qualify.
My OP was hyperbole to make as point but it is still true if you parse it
The least of us rule the best of us
You are going to have to explain "the least of us" then.
If it is literally "Anyone other than the single best person on the planet - better at what they do than the geniuses who flew us to the moon" then obviously we are ruled by "the least of us" because there is only one person who meets that standard and the odds are they wouldn't be American in the first place.
4 candidates and only one worth leadership and even Harris is not the best of us , she is just not the least of us
Walz is absolutely worth leadership from what I've seen of him.
Vance is competent, but a moral vacuum.
Trump is incompetent and dangerous.
The average Joe on the street would do a better job than the other three as he would defer to the experts
Are you joining me in arguing for sortition then?
Why do you think Harris and Walz wouldn't defer to the experts?
Hell, even Vance probably would on many things.
Trump defers to people all the time.
(That just brings in the issue of "which experts do you defer to"?)
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