The Three Reasons Canada is in Big Trouble

[explorerzip]

spending by the Ont govt has increased 47% since the liberals came to power
Tax increases are hardly appropriate when the issue is a lack of control on the spending side
There is no need to pay a grade 2 teacher $83K a year
And there is certainly no need to turn around and ask me the taxpayer to contribute more to cover this wasteful spending
We pay more than 50% of our income on taxes. That is nuts

I definitely agree with you that we're on this crazy pendulum where one government cuts taxes, then the next undoes all the cuts and increases spending. That's definitely nuts.

Sure the government can cut taxes, but programs that a lot of people benefit from would be cut too. Then we'd have to institute or increase fees for everything. Road tolls, higher priced transit, pools, licences, etc. Like I said earlier, there should be a bit of both: public money and user fees for these services. I'm not suggesting that there are no efficiencies that can be found in any of these city and provincial services.

If that grade 2 teacher was a lot better (generates higher test marks, higher satisfaction surveys, etc.) than his or her peers, shouldn't that person deserve whatever they are worth even if it happened to be $80+K per year? How about police officers, fire fighters and health care workers? That's pretty much well how it works in the private sector (pay for performance), though there are plenty of slackers too. Better question, if you were a grade 2 teacher and you were a lot better than your peers, wouldn't you expect to be paid well maybe even 80+K? If you were not being paid well, then you'd just leave. Money is an incentive for a lot of people. Even if its not, you'd still want to live in a decent place, eat, take care of your kids, send them to college and want to go on vacation, etc. These things are expensive.

Canada doesn't have a flat tax of more than 50% for everyone: maybe they should experiment with a flat tax (a lot less than 50% obviously.) Income taxes just don't work that way. We do need to reform the tax code big time since you are right in that some people are paying almost 50%. On the other hand, if you're good (or have a good accountant) or have a business, you can legally reduce that.

 

[5hummer]

1. PM Steven Harper
2. PM Steven Harper
3. PM Steven Harper

Trans-Pacific Partnership: 11 Things Harper Doesn't Want To Reveal About Uber-Secretive Trade Pact
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/26/stephen-harper-tpp-canada_n_3492531.html

 

[homerjsimpson]

Here are the top things that I worry about. Though in truth I don't spend a lot of time worrying about them. Instead, I prep.

#1 The Global Economy. Countries from all over the world are in deep shit right now with no way out except a lot of pain. Japan, China, the Uk, etc. Many of these countries cannot pay off their debts, (the UK's will drop out of the EU), hyperinflation will follow, and then pain. There are a host of countries that have seen hyperinflation in the last 50 to 100 years. It's always the same, look it up. But most of them won't affect me. However the when the US goes tits up, then we will be affected in a big way. We are tied to them in just too many ways. It will start when nations start giving up the USD as the world's reserve currency and go to something else. You see, the US will never / can never pay off their debts. The American people are just way too entrenched in their... damn, what is the term that means "I love all the shit I have and my McHappy eating ass and I'll never give it up"? They will never elect a President who will take the necessary measures to stop the ultimate shit storm coming their way. The USD will go down the tubes just like every other fiat currency. And if you think it won't affect us, just remember where most of your food comes from (It ain't the US, but it goes through the US). When the USD is given up as the reserve currency, the trade deficit assures they will get their asses pummeled for ever and ever.

#2 Canada's Debt - similar to above, we will never pay it off. Never. Just like the US, the trade deficit assures it. And as long as we cling to our way of life, we can never compete on a global scale with cheap labour overseas. Eventually as we try to pay off these debts, we will print more money, which will be worth less, which will create hyperinflation, etc, etc. When we hit the pain, we will cry and cuss and be mad as all hell that we didn't take less pain earlier on. But no...

#3 Man-made or (#4) Natural disasters - If you haven't read up on EMP bombs then you should. A sophisticated tactical strike over North America would leave a lot of our electronics useless. Most of these electronics wouldn't be a problem. But the transformer stations would definitely be toast. And transformers are custom made orders that take 12 to 18 months to build and deliver. And there are thousands of them. Go read One Second After for a clue. A certain solar flare from the sun could cause a similar problem knocking out transformers. But you could add to this point things like nuclear war, global warming (if the ocean rose 100' around the globe, and considering 90% of Earth's population lives within 100' of sea level...), a large nuclear strike, etc.

Anyway, been looking at disasters on this scale for a while. I know my stuff.

 

[JohnLarue]

I definitely agree with you that we're on this crazy pendulum where one government cuts taxes, then the next undoes all the cuts and increases spending. That's definitely nuts.

Sure the government can cut taxes, but programs that a lot of people benefit from would be cut too. Then we'd have to institute or increase fees for everything. Road tolls, higher priced transit, pools, licences, etc. Like I said earlier, there should be a bit of both: public money and user fees for these services. I'm not suggesting that there are no efficiencies that can be found in any of these city and provincial services.

If we had 72% more services or 72% better service one could make an argument support this lunacy
However we do not have 72% more service relative to 8 years ago

If that grade 2 teacher was a lot better (generates higher test marks, higher satisfaction surveys, etc.) than his or her peers, shouldn't that person deserve whatever they are worth even if it happened to be $80+K per year?

The problem it is not structured that way
A terrible teacher with the same seniority makes the $83K as a great teacher

A better question can these teachers replace that $83K job with one from the private sector?
No chance in hell
+ they only work 9 1/2 months out a year and their benefits are extremely generous
It is abuse of the tax payer via their union,plain and simple

How about police officers, fire fighters and health care workers? That's pretty much well how it works in the private sector (pay for performance), though there are plenty of slackers too. Better question, if you were a grade 2 teacher and you were a lot better than your peers, wouldn't you expect to be paid well maybe even 80+K? If you were not being paid well, then you'd just leave

.
And where exactly would they find work in the private sector at that wage?

Money is an incentive for a lot of people. Even if its not, you'd still want to live in a decent place, eat, take care of your kids, send them to college and want to go on vacation, etc. These things are expensive.

The private sector does not guarantee a specified standard of living the public sector should not either,

Canada doesn't have a flat tax of more than 50% for everyone: maybe they should experiment with a flat tax (a lot less than 50% obviously.) Income taxes just don't work that way. We do need to reform the tax code big time since you are right in that some people are paying almost 50%. On the other hand, if you're good (or have a good accountant) or have a business, you can legally reduce that

.

If you combine payroll and consumption taxes, the average Canadian pays well over 50% of what they earn in taxes
That is nuts
The government is stating they can spend your money more efficiently than you can
But wait there is more, they are not content with half your income, they are borrowing (Ontario is ) at an alarming rate. When interest rates go up it will coincide with a huge increase in demand for healthcare
That tax number will some become 55%,,,,60%,,,,65%.....

 

[Adam_hadam]

Believe me Canada is in very good, compared to other countries. But improvement must be looked at every year. Future must be examined and studied.

Do you get a monthly statement from your investment accounts? This months will be lower especially if you invested in interest sensitive products.

 

[Rockslinger]

Sure the government can cut taxes, but programs that a lot of people benefit from would be cut too.

Taxes are already high enough. It is spending that is the problem. Here is another spending scandal. The interim director of the TDSB has called in the forensic accountants to audit their spending.

Better question, if you were a grade 2 teacher and you were a lot better than your peers,

The problem is that every teacher is paid as if they are above average. We, except government, all know that 100% of teachers can't be above average.

 

[explorerzip]

Okay John, so what is a 'fair' wage for public sector workers to you? $80 K is too much, how about $60K, how about $20K. Like you said, teachers only work 9 months of the year so perhaps $2000 a month or $18 K per year. Still too much right? Perhaps $9 K per year regardless if they're good or bad? So now, we won't have any public sector workers living in Toronto or even Ontario any more because they can't afford to.

Even better let's slash all public sector workers down to minimum wage to keep you satisfied. Then what? Who's going to work in those professions or stay if they pay so poorly? Who's going to risk their lives fighting fires, resuscitate people, deliver babies, stopping criminals, serve in the military, rescue people from the ocean, etc. if they're all paid minimum wage? Perhaps user fees for all those services would be good? Call 911: that's $10 per minute. Then $5 per kilometre the fire truck needs to get to your house. Then a fee for all the water they are going to use. Then the city should get a parking fee for having the truck at your house for several hours. How about a noise and pollution charge? Forgot the toll the fire truck incurred on the way to your place. Obviously, this scenario is equally stupid so you tell me what the solution is?

I didn't say the public sector 'guarantees' a standard of living nor should it. I was saying that if you want people to perform well at a job (which would include public sector workers) you need to pay them competitively aka pay for performance or if they find efficiencies. If you don't pay them right they'll leave or no one would want those jobs. You can argue that public sector workers should be paid the same as private workers and you would be right assuming that the job requirements and conditions are the same. Problem is, there's no such thing as private fire fighters, paramedics, or police officers. There are private teachers, of course, but people already pay big time user fees for them.

I agree that unions are part of the problem, but what is your proposal for dealing with them? Every time you breath on them, they band together and strike. Taking a battle axe to them is just a waste when what we need is a scalpel.

Sure taxes are high in this country, but we also have one of the largest middle-class populations in the world that is pretty damned well-off. If you're bothered by that, move somewhere else.

 

[Rockslinger]

Okay John, so what is a 'fair' wage for public sector workers to you? $80 K is too much, how about $60K, how about $20K.

There are studies that show public sector compensation are 20%-30% higher than comparables in the private sector. That overpayment comes out of your (unless you are a teacher) pocket and mine.

 

[CTSblues]

There are studies that show public sector compensation are 20%-30% higher than comparables in the private sector. That overpayment comes out of your (unless you are a teacher) pocket and mine.

An economist has already established that Ontario teachers are paid 5% more than the OECD average. I have used the same procedure to show doctors are paid 33% more than the OECD average. I can not find the average salary for OECD police personnel, but I suspect they are grossly overpaid in Ontario:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busine...se+city+helpless+rein+them/8230333/story.html

Just think, 60 days of training after high school to earn a comparable salary to a teacher with 5 to 6 years of university, and hitting top salary in half the time (5 years instead of 10). This is why I propose that the government allow us to spend our share of the social spending the way we see fit. This would make sure nobody is being taken advantage of.

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

An economist has already established that Ontario teachers are paid 5% more than the OECD average. I have used the same procedure to show doctors are paid 33% more than the OECD average. I can not find the average salary for OECD police personnel, but I suspect they are grossly overpaid in Ontario:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busine...se+city+helpless+rein+them/8230333/story.html

Just think, 60 days of training after high school to earn a comparable salary to a teacher with 5 to 6 years of university, and hitting top salary in half the time (5 years instead of 10). This is why I propose that the government allow us to spend our share of the social spending the way we see fit. This would make sure nobody is being taken advantage of.

I was at a starbucks yesterday where I observed a couple of police squad cars and I guess a supervisor's SUV were parked. I also heard a helicopter overhead. Out of curiosity I asked the guys at the next table what all the hubbub was all about. Someone had stolen an iPhone 5 from a girl. All that, a helicopter -- yes, it turned out to have been a police helicopter buzzing overhead-- 3 squad cars, 3 police officers who hung around for as long as I was there, all to nab a suspect who had taken a bloody phone with a value of 500 bucks. The police mafia is out of control here. This part you all won't believe, I know, but it actually happened; when I was walking home, I decide to take the scenic route as it was such a pleasant evening. Lo and behold, this sort of nervous guy who had been following behind me approached me and asked if he could 'borrow my cell phone' -- He was the suspect!! Where were the cops? Probably still back at the coffee shop, taking statements.

Let me add that Krugman's right. What he writes is just common sense. The economy is defined as C + I + G + (X-M) = MV....if C declines, G is declining because Harpo the fuckhead is cutting spending in a weak economy, and "I" only really rises when C & G are increasing (or when business faces greater competitive forces, ie following enactment of a free trade agreement), then the only variables that can drive our economy in future must be net exports X-M. If average commodity prices moderate, then what we're all counting on is for volume to pick up. Harper the dick (which I suspect he enjoys sucking) is simply hoping for a recovery in the US economy...that's his plan. He's got none other.

 

[JohnLarue]

An economist has already established that Ontario teachers are paid 5% more than the OECD average. I have used the same procedure to show doctors are paid 33% more than the OECD average. I can not find the average salary for OECD police personnel, but I suspect they are grossly overpaid in Ontario:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/busine...se+city+helpless+rein+them/8230333/story.html

Just think, 60 days of training after high school to earn a comparable salary to a teacher with 5 to 6 years of university, and hitting top salary in half the time (5 years instead of 10). This is why I propose that the government allow us to spend our share of the social spending the way we see fit. This would make sure nobody is being taken advantage of.

You say that now, however, just hope you never really need a policeman
Imagine society without them
You might not make it

I value them much higher than teachers

 

[JohnLarue]

Okay John, so what is a 'fair' wage for public sector workers to you? $80 K is too much, how about $60K, how about $20K. Like you said, teachers only work 9 months of the year so perhaps $2000 a month or $18 K per year. Still too much right? Perhaps $9 K per year regardless if they're good or bad? So now, we won't have any public sector workers living in Toronto or even Ontario any more because they can't afford to.

Even better let's slash all public sector workers down to minimum wage to keep you satisfied. Then what? Who's going to work in those professions or stay if they pay so poorly? Who's going to risk their lives fighting fires, resuscitate people, deliver babies, stopping criminals, serve in the military, rescue people from the ocean, etc. if they're all paid minimum wage? Perhaps user fees for all those services would be good? Call 911: that's $10 per minute. Then $5 per kilometre the fire truck needs to get to your house. Then a fee for all the water they are going to use. Then the city should get a parking fee for having the truck at your house for several hours. How about a noise and pollution charge? Forgot the toll the fire truck incurred on the way to your place. Obviously, this scenario is equally stupid so you tell me what the solution is?

1. It has to be a wage which is sustainable and does not drive up taxes
2. Perhaps it should be a wage more inline with the average taxpayer. Certainly not double
3. Something in line with a replacement wage in the private sector. No way could the average teacher replace $83K a year +gold plated benefits + 20 sick days + the summer off in the private sector

I didn't say the public sector 'guarantees' a standard of living nor should it. I was saying that if you want people to perform well at a job (which would include public sector workers) you need to pay them competitively aka pay for performance or if they find efficiencies. If you don't pay them right they'll leave or no one would want those jobs. You can argue that public sector workers should be paid the same as private workers and you would be right assuming that the job requirements and conditions are the same. Problem is, there's no such thing as private fire fighters, paramedics, or police officers. There are private teachers, of course, but people already pay big time user fees for them.

Teachers are never fired, it is a guarantee, meanwhile for the majority taxpayers funding this nightmare, they know job loss is part of the real world today
Unions always talk about standard of living in negotiations and what's worse is they use contracts in other provinces as standards, you do not even get to vote for the fool that ultimately jacks up the costs by caving. The teacher s in BC are using Ont as the standard. At $83K it looks pretty good.
After BC passes Ont it will be the other way around

I agree that unions are part of the problem, but what is your proposal for dealing with them? Every time you breath on them, they band together and strike. Taking a battle axe to them is just a waste when what we need is a scalpel.

At some point if a parasite is making you sick you have to kill it
I fear we will be in an unmanageable debt crisis before this become clear to others, by then you will have a standard of living issue. Ask the people of Greece

Sure taxes are high in this country, but we also have one of the largest middle-class populations in the world that is pretty damned well-off. If you're bothered by that, move somewhere else

1. I was here first, you can leave if you would like. (how dare you!)
2. You fail to see that an ever increasing bite out of the middle class paycheque is being transfer to others via taxation. That is not sustainable

 

[GPIDEAL]

spending by the Ont govt has increased 47% since the liberals came to power
Tax increases are hardly appropriate when the issue is a lack of control on the spending side
There is no need to pay a grade 2 teacher $83K a year
And there is certainly no need to turn around and ask me the taxpayer to contribute more to cover this wasteful spending
We pay more than 50% of our income on taxes. That is nuts

Here, here!

Our Ontario government simply doesn't know how to manage public funds prudently. No tax increases unless they can prove that they can spend or allocate properly.

 

[explorerzip]

1. It has to be a wage which is sustainable and does not drive up taxes

So in other words, we should cap all teachers salary? So the incentive to enter or stay teaching is what exactly? As the cost of living increases, then what? Teachers would just get fed up and leave to other jobs maybe even the profession. I know you like that scenario, but then we would face teacher shortages, resulting in bigger class sizes, less time spent with kids and sports is definitely out of the picture: so you'll be paying fees for that. People that can afford the fees will be fine, but if you drew the short straw in the family wealth game, then you're screwed.

2. Perhaps it should be a wage more inline with the average taxpayer. Certainly not double

I do have to agree with you here. If it's capped even worse lower than average taxpayers, then it doesn't work.

3. Something in line with a replacement wage in the private sector. No way could the average teacher replace $83K a year +gold plated benefits + 20 sick days + the summer off in the private sector

This I'm not sure of since private school is not cheap either. Private teachers must certainly be paid very well.

Teachers are never fired, it is a guarantee, meanwhile for the majority taxpayers funding this nightmare, they know job loss is part of the real world today

I agree with you here and sadly, that's not going to change unless we completely abolish unions. That's not likely ever going to happen. Even if it does, it will probably take decades.

Unions always talk about standard of living in negotiations and what's worse is they use contracts in other provinces as standards, you do not even get to vote for the fool that ultimately jacks up the costs by caving. The teacher s in BC are using Ont as the standard. At $83K it looks pretty good. After BC passes Ont it will be the other way around

This I did not know, so I'll give you that.

1. I was here first, you can leave if you would like. (how dare you!)

Why not dare?! This is a board where everyone's talking smut, trading points about escorts, how they look, service they provide and talking shit to each other. Freedom of speech man. You're free to disagree with me, I'm free to talk shit to you You've been here long enough to know there's a lot worse stuff posted on here.

I'm just making the point that a lot of people seem to bellyache about taxes and how it's "better" in other countries. I've actually talked with people that say we should have 0% income tax like Dubai, but don't realize that they collect big taxes from foreign oil and banks, import duties on goods, and heavy taxes on alcohol and tobacco. Income tax is 0%, but they nail you on a lot of other things. Governments are not dumb. Let's look at the US while we're at it. Definitely lots of rich people there, but a whole lot more really poor people there too.

2. You fail to see that an ever increasing bite out of the middle class paycheque is being transfer to others via taxation. That is not sustainable

Which also means that we should go after corporations and people making over $100K. That is also unsustainable since those people and companies would just leave.

Again I make the point that even if we decrease income taxes by eliminating public sector workers, there is still the problem of paying for those services. Granted paying less income tax might feel good, but we'd just be paying user fees for certain services. The end result is basically the same. So you can either pre-pay for the service or when you need it and sometimes it could be life and death.

Remember gents, that we are talking about people and they want the same things that we all want. It might feel nice to punish them and restrict their income, but how long would you stay in a job like that?

 

[CTSblues]

Let me add that Krugman's right. What he writes is just common sense. The economy is defined as C + I + G + (X-M) = MV....if C declines, G is declining because Harpo the fuckhead is cutting spending in a weak economy, and "I" only really rises when C & G are increasing (or when business faces greater competitive forces, ie following enactment of a free trade agreement), then the only variables that can drive our economy in future must be net exports X-M. If average commodity prices moderate, then what we're all counting on is for volume to pick up. Harper the dick (which I suspect he enjoys sucking) is simply hoping for a recovery in the US economy...that's his plan. He's got none other.

I have not seen that equation for years; it certainly brings back old memory.

Consumer spending is not improving when most young people work in retail sales. Corporations will not invest when there is no demand. I don’t see how Americans" disposable income will improve anytime soon, so our export there is not going anywhere. China is also slowing so no luck there either.

Harper is trying to strike a free trade deal with the EU, but the EU is in worse shape than we are…so I think you are right, he is waiting for a US recovery. It will be a long wait.

 

[CTSblues]

You say that now, however, just hope you never really need a policeman
Imagine society without them
You might not make it

Do you really believe a thug or a murderer is going to wait for a policeman to stand between you two before doing his dirty deed? A policeman is there to investigate after the fact.

I value them much higher than teachers

That is the beauty of my solution. We each choose where we spend our “voucher money”, no communist, no parasites, and no hypocrites.

Let"s put it another way: You worship the Aztecs and I the Greeks. If Canada were to follow your advice, we are walking down the path of Atlas Shrugged. If the contrasting experience of Argentina and China in the 20th century has not impressed you, have a look at Lynn and Vanhanen’s IQ and the Wealth of Nations.

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

1. It has to be a wage which is sustainable and does not drive up taxes
2. Perhaps it should be a wage more inline with the average taxpayer. Certainly not double
3. Something in line with a replacement wage in the private sector. No way could the average teacher replace $83K a year +gold plated benefits + 20 sick days + the summer off in the private sector



Teachers are never fired, it is a guarantee, meanwhile for the majority taxpayers funding this nightmare, they know job loss is part of the real world today
Unions always talk about standard of living in negotiations and what's worse is they use contracts in other provinces as standards, you do not even get to vote for the fool that ultimately jacks up the costs by caving. The teacher s in BC are using Ont as the standard. At $83K it looks pretty good.
After BC passes Ont it will be the other way around


At some point if a parasite is making you sick you have to kill it
I fear we will be in an unmanageable debt crisis before this become clear to others, by then you will have a standard of living issue. Ask the people of Greece


1. I was here first, you can leave if you would like. (how dare you!)
2. You fail to see that an ever increasing bite out of the middle class paycheque is being transfer to others via taxation. That is not sustainable

You're preaching to the choir here LaRue but let me ask you something, when has this state of affairs ever been different? Nothing will change here...I swear it. Just yesterday I read that firefighters are going to get a 14% over, I believe 5 years. Why? they already earn an obscene amount of money. Nothing will change until literally the people gather into the streets, as they are doing in places like Istanbul, Cairo, and Rio and not budge until the pols reverse course.

 

[JohnLarue]

So in other words, we should cap all teachers salary? So the incentive to enter or stay teaching is what exactly? As the cost of living increases, then what? Teachers would just get fed up and leave to other jobs maybe even the profession. I know you like that scenario, but then we would face teacher shortages, resulting in bigger class sizes, less time spent with kids and sports is definitely out of the picture: so you'll be paying fees for that. People that can afford the fees will be fine, but if you drew the short straw in the family wealth game, then you're screwed.

At $83K for the average teacher ?
Yes we should cap that salary. Probably for at least a decade

Teachers leave for other professions?
Sorry, not going to happen
1. They could not replace a $83K salary in the private sector, certainly not en mass
2. Their skill set is not in demand in the private sector
3. The line up of applicants for teachers jobs is huge, the province could theoretically turn over the entire group of them if required (Hey , now that's an idea)

$24 B sound like enough to pay a reasonable salary ($60-65 K) + pay for books and sports
Why are we overpaying teachers and eliminating books and sports for kids
I thought education was for the benefit of the students. It sounds like it is the teachers who are benefiting more

I do have to agree with you here. If it's capped even worse lower than average taxpayers, then it doesn't work.

The average taxpayer makes approx. $43 K a year.
If you could drive teachers salaries down to that, I will buy you a hooker

This I'm not sure of since private school is not cheap either. Private teachers must certainly be paid very well.

The private schools could not absorb all teachers

I agree with you here and sadly, that's not going to change unless we completely abolish unions. That's not likely ever going to happen. Even if it does, it will probably take decades.

At one point the province will default or will not be able to provide health care services because the unions will have extorted too large a slice
Then action and changes to the laws will be required

Why not dare?! This is a board where everyone's talking smut, trading points about escorts, how they look, service they provide and talking shit to each other. Freedom of speech man. You're free to disagree with me, I'm free to talk shit to you You've been here long enough to know there's a lot worse stuff posted on here.

Perhaps, but telling me to leave Ont if I do not like it is not appropriate

I'm just making the point that a lot of people seem to bellyache about taxes and how it's "better" in other countries. I've actually talked with people that say we should have 0% income tax like Dubai, but don't realize that they collect big taxes from foreign oil and banks, import duties on goods, and heavy taxes on alcohol and tobacco. Income tax is 0%, but they nail you on a lot of other things. Governments are not dumb. Let's look at the US while we're at it. Definitely lots of rich people there, but a whole lot more really poor people there too.

50% is too much
It drives me nuts knowing how hard I work and knowing 1/2 of what I earn is handed out to public sector union members who feel they are entitled

Which also means that we should go after corporations and people making over $100K. That is also unsustainable since those people and companies would just leave.

Correct, they would leave and take many jobs with

As long as you are picking an arbitrary number to super tax the rich, why not people making over say $75K, then teachers would be taxed to pay for their own excess.

No we need some control on spending

Again I make the point that even if we decrease income taxes by eliminating public sector workers, there is still the problem of paying for those services. Granted paying less income tax might feel good, but we'd just be paying user fees for certain services. The end result is basically the same. So you can either pre-pay for the service or when you need it and sometimes it could be life and death.

No sense overpaying and there is certainly no need to pile on a mountain of unsustainable debt in order to overpay
$83K for a grade two teacher to teach ABC, finger painting and 2+2 =4 ?????????? That is just plain stupid and wasteful

Remember gents, that we are talking about people and they want the same things that we all want. It might feel nice to punish them and restrict their income, but how long would you stay in a job like that?

Not punishment, just a compensation package that is reasonable ($60-$65) , sustainable and affordable
Hell they get the summer off, that is still a gravy train job @ $60-$65

 

[JohnLarue]

Do you really believe a thug or a murderer is going to wait for a policeman to stand between you two before doing his dirty deed? A policeman is there to investigate after the fact.

No police and they do not hesitate at all

That is the beauty of my solution. We each choose where we spend our “voucher money”, no communist, no parasites, and no hypocrites.

Does every kid get access an education, regardless of their parents income?

Let"s put it another way: You worship the Aztecs and I the Greeks. If Canada were to follow your advice, we are walking down the path of Atlas Shrugged. If the contrasting experience of Argentina and China in the 20th century has not impressed you, have a look at Lynn and Vanhanen’s IQ and the Wealth of Nations.

Lets not put it that way
(what BS)
This is a simple problem
We can no longer afford to pay teachers what they feel they are entitled to

 

[CTSblues]

No police and they do not hesitate at all

Sure. If there is no teacher, you can not read either.

I thought the question is this: If a person with an honours degree teaching 9-10 months a year should get 60-65 thousands according to your calculations, how much should a person with a high school education gets for sitting in Tim Hortons enjoying his donut?

Does every kid get access an education, regardless of their parents income?

I don’t see why not.

Lets not put it that way
(what BS)

How so? Give me an argument.

Before you start, I would like to remind you that, last I checked, average IQ for China is 105 and 93 for Argentina. At the 90%tile range, where it really matters, I suspect the gap is even greater, as indicated by their respective performance over the years on the International Math Olympiad:

http://www.imo-official.org/results.aspx

This is a simple problem

Afghanistan and Iraq were supposed to be simple too.

We can no longer afford to pay teachers what they feel they are entitled to

Can we pay police and firefighters what they feel they are entitled to?