The State of the Union

[Frankfooter]

Pelosi has had a bad week. The impeachment went down the drain, and her city lost the Superbowl.
But hey, she still has those really cool pens.
]

It went as expected.
Trump is impeached and the GOP controlled senate will acquit and back his corruption, tagging them with him forever.

Trump refused to shake her hand and she tore up his speech.
So you got mad at her for upping him on his own tricks.

The big questions are what happens next, does Trump try to get 'investigations' into Bolton and Biden?
Where does the Giuliani/Parvas investigation go?
What else is in Bolton's book that will embarrass the senate?

Investigations into fraud by Trump will continue, the SC challenges will continue and more dirt will come out as it seems to every week.

And Trump will still be impeached.

 

[WyattEarp]

Trump refused to shake her hand and she tore up his speech.
So you got mad at her for upping him on his own tricks.

I believe he didn't shake Pence's hand either. So how are we suppose to understand the intent.

Anyway, Pelosi offering her hand is a silly gesture. We are in the midst of an impeachment trial that the Speaker directly brought on the President.

 

[Boober69]

It went as expected.
Trump is impeached and the GOP controlled senate will acquit and back his corruption, tagging them with him forever.

Trump refused to shake her hand and she tore up his speech.
So you got mad at her for upping him on his own tricks.

The big questions are what happens next, does Trump try to get 'investigations' into Bolton and Biden?
Where does the Giuliani/Parvas investigation go?
What else is in Bolton's book that will embarrass the senate?

Investigations into fraud by Trump will continue, the SC challenges will continue and more dirt will come out as it seems to every week.

And Trump will still be impeached.

Haha keep dreaming...dreams are all you have left after all.

 

[anon1]

trending : #NancytheRipper
https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=#NancytheRipper&src=trend_click

 

[Frankfooter]

I believe he didn't shake Pence's hand either. So how are we suppose to understand the intent.

Anyway, Pelosi offering her hand is a silly gesture. We are in the midst of an impeachment trial that the Speaker directly brought on the President.

We are at the end of an impeachment that Trump brought on through his own actions.
State of the Union traditionally is a non-partisan speech, Trump turned it into a campaign rally and deserved what he got.

 

[Conil]

Great state of the union. Pelosi just made an ass out of herself and the democrats.

 

[Frankfooter]

Impeached without a single republican vote. That is 100% partisan.

Now he's impeached with one republican vote to convict.
Its no longer totally partisan.
He's just impeached.

 

[Frankfooter]

The impeachment vote was final before it reached the Senate.
Mitt Romney's vote was in the Senate, not the house. The house impeachment was 100% partisan, that will never change.

If you wish to say the acquittal in the senate was Bipartisan, then I would agree.

I'm saying that one republican voted to impeach and remove Trump from office.
That's not 100% partisan any more.
Its just another impeached president.

 

[Valcazar]

I'm saying that one republican voted to impeach and remove Trump from office.
That's not 100% partisan any more.
Its just another impeached president.

In fact, every other time the house voted in a bipartisan manner to impeach, the Senate had bipartisan votes to acquit. No member of the president's party has ever voted to remove/convict. It has always been the opposing party that moved to help acquit.

This time, for the first time ever, a member of the president's party crossed over to vote for conviction, thus making it the most bi partisan sanction of the president ever in a senate impeachment trial.

 

[WyattEarp]

In fact, every other time the house voted in a bipartisan manner to impeach, the Senate had bipartisan votes to acquit. No member of the president's party has ever voted to remove/convict. It has always been the opposing party that moved to help acquit.

This time, for the first time ever, a member of the president's party crossed over to vote for conviction, thus making it the most bi partisan sanction of the president ever in a senate impeachment trial.

Well since you are expounding on previous impeachments and we only have had three impeachment trials in our history, maybe we should take a closer look. Shall we? Andrew Johnson was a Democrat who came into the President when Republican Abraham Lincoln was assassinated. The Republicans controlled the Senate when he was impeached by the Republican-controlled House.

Here's what Wikipedia had to say about the Senate trial:

"He (Andrew Johnson) favored quick restoration of the seceded states to the Union without protection for the former slaves. This led to conflict with the Republican-dominated Congress, culminating in his impeachment by the House of Representatives, but he was subsequently acquitted in the Senate by one vote."

So while you are absolutely correct this is the first time a member of the President's own party has voted to convict, the acquittal vote for Andrew Johnson is a questionable moment in history.

 

[Frankfooter]

Well since you are expounding on previous impeachments and we only have had three impeachment trials in our history, maybe we should take a closer look. Shall we? Andrew Johnson was a Democrat who came into the President when Republican Abraham Lincoln was assassinated. The Republicans controlled the Senate when he was impeached by the Republican-controlled House.

Here's what Wikipedia had to say about the Senate trial:

"He (Andrew Johnson) favored quick restoration of the seceded states to the Union without protection for the former slaves. This led to conflict with the Republican-dominated Congress, culminating in his impeachment by the House of Representatives, but he was subsequently acquitted in the Senate by one vote."

So while you are absolutely correct this is the first time a member of the President's own party has voted to convict, the acquittal vote for Andrew Johnson is a questionable moment in history.

Acquitting Trump without witnesses is way more questionable.
And he still had one of his own party vote to remove him from office.

He only just squeaked by with a couple of votes.

 

[WyattEarp]

Acquitting Trump without witnesses is way more questionable.
And he still had one of his own party vote to remove him from office.

He only just squeaked by with a couple of votes.

The good news is that the House can subpoena people and vote for impeachment again.

 

[Valcazar]

So while you are absolutely correct this is the first time a member of the President's own party has voted to convict, the acquittal vote for Andrew Johnson is a questionable moment in history.

Absolutely. Johnson's acquittal was a bad thing. It is clear that the Founders failed in their design. They didn't anticipate parties and since votes of non confidence existed but weren't really well established, they came up with a solution. That we have only had three and that one of the acquittals is largely considered to have been a bad choice and this one is likely to be viewed the same way, it is pretty clear that it isn't an effective check on power.

 

[Frankfooter]

The good news is that the House can subpoena people and vote for impeachment again.

They already said they'd interview Bolton.
His book will come out soon as well.

 

[OnTheWayOut]

Ripping up the speech was bad but his refusing the handshake prior was ok? He definitely has set the asshole tone, as usual.

The weasily cunt had just impeached his ass!

 

[OnTheWayOut]

In fact, every other time the house voted in a bipartisan manner to impeach, the Senate had bipartisan votes to acquit. No member of the president's party has ever voted to remove/convict. It has always been the opposing party that moved to help acquit.

This time, for the first time ever, a member of the president's party crossed over to vote for conviction, thus making it the most bi partisan sanction of the president ever in a senate impeachment trial.

End result, Trump is still president and likely to get 4 more years to piss off the Dems. Hopefully 4 more years of a kick ass economy too!

 

[WyattEarp]

That we have only had three and that one of the acquittals is largely considered to have been a bad choice and this one is likely to be viewed the same way, it is pretty clear that it isn't an effective check on power.

Historians with the benefit of time are more reflective than those of us caught up in the emotions of the day. It's hard to say how they will judge this. There is so much more they will consider than just the phone call.

- The President clearly did something stupid and irregular. Was this an impeachable offense or merely censurable bad form?
- Schiff might have been coordinating with people on the National Security Council for a long time. How is he viewed by history?
- The House could have subpoenaed witnesses and gone to court. Nancy Pelosi said it was absolutely urgent to impeach then held on to the articles of impeachment.
- How does history judge Joe and Hunter Biden? Was Joe Biden really a credible candidate?
- There's always the possibility of some tell-all book from someone in the Trump Administration years from now.
- Historians will also be influenced by how the American voter treats Trump and Biden this year.

Having said that, I doubt historians fifty years from now will judge the Trump-Zelensky phone call on the same magnitude as Andrew Johnson's sympathies for the Confederate states and slavery. Not even close.

 

[wigglee]

You expect things like that from Trump, but not Nancy. It's been one blow after another for the Democrats this week, including Iowa.

A reaction like the one Pelosi gave, shows she can't keep her emotions in check anymore, and be the strong person people expect to see.
Boycotting the SOTU, and ripping papers is not a show of party strength.

I expect Trump to be an asshole, but I don't accept it or respect him as a President. Pelosi's symbolic ripping of the speech was mild mannered and brilliant theatre. No self respecting individual should have to pretend that Trump's speech wasn't complete hucksterism and lies. The only Repuglican with a shred of integrity is Mitt Romney. We now return you to our regularly scheduled program "As the Drain Swirls".

 

[wigglee]

Pelosi ripping up the speech was childish, but how did it make sense on any level? She clapped for the vast majority of the speech, standing up for several parts! She only sat on her hands for a few sections. It was a total non-sequitor that she tore up the pages that she had just applauded.

Of course she had to applaud the softballs, like "America is great". That didn't mean the speech wasn't full of manipulative reality TV stunts, lies , exaggerations and racially divisive pronouncements.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Of course she had to applaud the softballs, like "America is great". That didn't mean the speech wasn't full of manipulative reality TV stunts, lies , exaggerations and racially divisive pronouncements.

That she stood up and applauded, in most cases.

She tore up every page of the speech, including the pages where a girl got a scholarship, a page where a man was recognized for successfully transitioning from prison to productive employment, a page celebrating low levels of unemployment, etc.

That's the trouble with simpleminded gestures like hers. She never thought through how people she would like on the sides of Democrats would view it. Did you see the interview with the brother of the man killed by an illegal alien? He was appalled that she would tear up pages of a speech which recognized his loss and vowed to prevent it from happening to others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEELhUE4tRY