The race to the bottom: Unpaid internships: the most precarious work of all

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
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No, slavery is when you have to do it, volunteering is when you choose to do it....
You do realize who you're talking to, right? I hear fine points like that go over your head when you wear a bucket as a hat.

Doing short term volunteer or intern work for someone is often the best job interview you can get. You also get a chance to check them out as well. Talk is cheap, the proof is in the product.
 

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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You do realize who you're talking to, right? I hear fine points like that go over your head when you wear a bucket as a hat.

Doing short term volunteer or intern work for someone is often the best job interview you can get. You also get a chance to check them out as well. Talk is cheap, the proof is in the product.
asking somebody to do the work of employees and not paying them is illegal
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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This sort of entry position has been around since the middle-ages, likely earlier. In those days they were called apprenticeships, and the young people who got them to learn a trade were essentially sold into bondage—contracted servitude with penalties for runaways—by their parents. Not a lot different from internships, except child labour laws have removed the parents from the equation so the interns make their own deals.

The system works for some, and exploits others. Like the explosion in 'contract' workers generally, it's kinda caught the various establishments unawares. Like every change in work and commerce before, we'll either judge it a reasonable practice, or we'll take collective action to deal with the worst shortcomings and abuses.

Making it explicit law that internships/contract workers be covered by written employment agreements so that employer liability and responsibility are the same as for paid staff, and that interns/contract workers acting for the company are likewise its official representatives and agents, as an example. There might be <gasp> defined work, duties and hours written and enforceable even if it was up to the individuals what action to take about The Morning Latte Problem. It'd be a start.

Eventually, bigger slushier issues like employee benefits will become unavoidable issues as well, and we'll either have to accept more of a class system in our societies, or finally deal with that one squarely. One of the major factors—and least expensive to fix— in the increasing inequality of paid work in North America is the escape from various payroll taxes and employee benefits that employers take advantage of by contracting, by part-timing their work forces and by using interns to do significant amounts of labour.

As with all collective action the question is whether we'll be out in front with insightful leadership, or waiting to be energized by disaster and led by demagogues and ranters. Either way problems gotta get fixed.
 

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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guelph

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May 25, 2002
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This sort of entry position has been around since the middle-ages, likely earlier. In those days they were called apprenticeships, and the young people who got them to learn a trade were essentially sold into bondage—contracted servitude with penalties for runaways—by their parents. Not a lot different from internships, except child labour laws have removed the parents from the equation so the interns make their own deals.
The master (employer) provided training and food and lodging to the apprentices so they did get a "living wage" not free to the employer
 

Plan B

Race Relations Expert
Jun 7, 2008
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So, if someone told you that the career path you were to choose required you to work for free for a year for the POSSIBILITY to get a paid position, would you follow that path or choose another?
To make things clear, I suggest that internships really should be in the 4-6 month range. Any longer than 6 months and the intern should be paid. The important mindset to go into this arrangement for the intern is to accept the fact that he or she should not be expecting a paid position at the end of the internship. This would reduce resentment. However they will gain the following:
A) On the Job Experience
B) The ability to start networking with people in the same field
C) A good reference
D) Another entry on their resume
E) Much more to talk about in an interview for a paid job than someone who refuses to do "unpaid work"
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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The master (employer) provided training and food and lodging to the apprentices so they did get a "living wage" not free to the employer
And slept on sacks under the counter or in the basement. For the sake of our stomachs,let us not consider what excuse for food a skinflint master (not for nothing does the same word get used for slaveholders) might provide. At the end of the stipulated indenture, an apprentice often had to fight for the tools, nomination to the craft guild and such that were promised in their bond.

Times have changed; the concepts of paying for learning the biz by forgoing wages and of using unpaid labour to the employer's advantage never will. They're both valid incentives, but neither should be a license to abuse or exploit. In any unbalanced power relationship, if there are abuses, the only alternative is for the ones with less power to take collective action.

What we now call apprenticeship bears no relation to the medieval version, because governments and workers took such action. If internships and contract-work become synonymous with abuse and repression, they too will most certainly get 'improved'.

Never forgetting that Adam Smith insisted "… a well-regulated society" was necessary for a free market, I remain yr humble and ob'dt servant†,

oj

† Which you know d____ well I am not
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
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When I graduated from university year ago, I had four job offers. I won't say which professional field but the salary wasn't bad although they worked us to the bone (they didn't have to pay us overtime because like a few professions, it has an exemption under the ESA in Ontario), but I'd rather have that than no pay.

I suppose, short-term and part-time, unpaid internships are okay, particularly for students who might live at home or whose living expenses are low and can tide things over with part-time, paying jobs.

Anything that is full-time and unpaid is exploitation.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,359
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To make things clear, I suggest that internships really should be in the 4-6 month range. Any longer than 6 months and the intern should be paid. The important mindset to go into this arrangement for the intern is to accept the fact that he or she should not be expecting a paid position at the end of the internship. This would reduce resentment. However they will gain the following:
A) On the Job Experience
B) The ability to start networking with people in the same field
C) A good reference
D) Another entry on their resume
E) Much more to talk about in an interview for a paid job than someone who refuses to do "unpaid work"
Short-term AND part-time is okay, but if full-time, no more than 6 months and it depends on the field or discipline too.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
10,209
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I just can't seem to find a girl to work as an unpaid escort intern!
 
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