The movie "The Passion" Excuse my ignorance.

[Back Burner]

So much has been made of this movie and Mel Gibson has even been called anti-semitic. Why?

Please excuse my ignorance but many haven't seen the movie, including myself and are still making these allegations. I was watching clips of the S.A.G awards and actress Jane Kaczmarek, for Malcolm in the Middle, who hasn't seen the movie, said that Mel should be ashamed of himself.

I know the controversy about how graphic it is but I just don't get the leap of him being anti-semitic. This is not the first movie about the life and death of Jesus.

What am I missing, or is this movie about something else?

 

[The Doctor]

Haven't seen it either BB and wondering the same thing myself. Perhaps the good Cardinal can shed some light for us...Fang?

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Apparently this movie portrays the Jews as being the ones ultimately responsible for Jesus death. That, accompanied by the grotesque and horrific nature of the torture and crucifixion of Jesus may incite hatred of the Jews by the "less intelligent and enlightened folk" (to put it gently).

The Jews and even the Catholic Church have stated that the Gospel account of the Passion was skewed by cultural norms of the day, even to the point of being allegorical. Whether that's true or not, I have no idea.

The bottom line is that crucifixion was pretty much the worst possible way to die back then. And that is historical.

I don't see how people who haven't seen the movie can pre-judge it. Wait until you see it, and then give your opinion.

Oh well. Anti-Christian rhetoric seems to be fashionable these days.

 

[onthebottom]

Political Coorectness

PCism from the 80s collage campuses rears it's ugly head again with the Passion. The irony here is that more people will go and see it after all this fuss. Don't know that many films with Latin as the language get this much attention.

OTB

 

[onthebottom]

If I were British

I'd be pissed at Mel; he's always portraying the British as the villain (Brave Heart, Patriot...).

Perhaps he's really anti-anglo?

OTB

 

[hedway]

A similar thing happened when Monty Python's "Life of Brian" came out. Some Catholics called it blasphemous but upon further inquiry admitted they haven't even viewed it before spouting their opinion.

Net result, great free publicity for the movie.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

Perhaps the good Cardinal can shed some light for us...Fang?

I would defer to Goober said except that I would have added a spelling mistake or two for emphasis.

 

[danmand]

Even as I have not seen (and probably will not see) the movie, I am appalled by the blatant stirring up of religious controversy for commercial gain.
Even as religion does not matter much to most Canadians, don't forget that in many parts of the world, where this movie will be seen, people still kill each other for religious reasons.

 

[The Shake]

Although I do not agree with people who suggest that the movie will be hateful (I haven't seen it, but I've read the Gospels), I can understand their fears.

Anti-Semites have long justified their hatred of the Jews by citing their hand in the death of Jesus. Indeed, Christ Killer was not an uncommon slur in years gone by. This, of course, ignores the fact that a true Christian would understand that Christ was divined to die and that his blood is on the hands of all men, not any one religion or race. Sadly, those who hate will always find reasons to justify their bigotry. Regardless, its natural for Jewish people to worry that a literal interpretation of the Gospels will ignite that old (but inaccurate) slur.

This natural nervousness, however, has been heighten by two key related factors - 1) Mel Gibson is a pre-Vatican II Catholic and 2) his father is a well-known (in Australasia) Anti-Semite and Holocaust denier.

Pre-Vatican II Catholics essentially reject the modernization of the Church that occurred during the 1960's and believe the current Pope to be a heretic and usurper. Extreme followers of this group believe that the Church was stolen by "Free Masons & Jews" after the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958. They also believe that anyone who does not share their beliefs will burn in hell.

So, as you might imagine, being a bit nervous about this movie isn't just knee-jerk political correctness.

 

[n_v]

Oh well. Anti-Christian rhetoric seems to be fashionable these days.

Ain't that the truth!!! (sigh)

 

[n_v]

Pre-Vatican II Catholics essentially reject the modernization of the Church that occurred during the 1960's and believe the current Pope to be a heretic and usurper. Extreme followers of this group believe that the Church was stolen by "Free Masons & Jews" after the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958. They also believe that anyone who does not share their beliefs will burn in hell.

Actually, from what I read and understand, is that they believe they have a better chance of getting to heaven then others. Not that the others will burn in hell.

Also, and I know it may be your opinion, but calling the Pope a heretic may be a little too extreme. Pre-Vatican II Catholics are just more strict/disciplined in their Catholic beliefs, which seems to offend others for some reason.

 

[Cobster]

Mel is going to make his initial $25million investment back and then some.
Irony is, people who are touting this movie as anti-semitic will pay to see it, duh
Whatever! People who are bad mouthing it, should also rant and rave to those who helped finance the movie as well.
(this is where i'll keep my mouth shout, to be politically correct and what not)


Way to go Mel, good job, gotta give him credit.

Read on a site today, apparently it's quite visual as well.

 

[EnergizerBunny]

Gotta love it!

I love controversy! “NO!”

I think any dialog is good, it makes people think enough to maybe develop some ideas of their own; just maybe.

Questions:

If you were Jewish and know the results of passion plays of the past, how would you feel?

If you saw many of the “Christians” viewing the film emotionally breakdown, what would you think about it's ability to arouse emotions in people, never mind extremists.

If Mel Gibson shares his father’s fundamental “catholic” [read sect] faith, what views does he not share with Hutton Gibson? [Just for a laugh http://iresist.com/ice/Gibson.html He also likes to say that that the Holocaust is exaggerated and that the pope has betrayed Catholics]. Mel is just a great spin-doctor and great at drama as well as being flippant when need be. Would he come out and tell his real thoughts if he felt that it would discredit him?

If Jesus was about love, why emphasize the violence committed against him. I am sure that that was his message. Yeah right!

Jesus was a rebel in his day, hell even today Bush might have to lock him up for going against the status quo. [Ok so at times I am flippant also. hehehe] Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. where marked for death as well. Are all Indians or all Americans responsible for their deaths?

Gibson himself said that he wants to shock with the film. Violence sells, controversy sells and they are great advocacy [read propaganda] tools. Who the fuck would want to go see a film about a nice guy who said, “Turn the other cheek”?

Am I gonna see the film? Hell yeah, I love drama! hehehe

 

[The Shake]

Actually, from what I read and understand, is that they believe they have a better chance of getting to heaven then others. Not that the others will burn in hell.

You are correct. Your description is more accurate than mine. For the record, however, Gibson has stated that he believes his wife will burn in hell because she is a protestant.

Also, and I know it may be your opinion, but calling the Pope a heretic may be a little too extreme. Pre-Vatican II Catholics are just more strict/disciplined in their Catholic beliefs, which seems to offend others for some reason.

I disagree with that. I was referring to the extreme followers of this theology, not just those who still like to receive Mass in Latin. Those people do not recognize any of the four post V2 Popes and, most importantly, believe that the Churches acceptanace of "Freedom of Religion" is Heresy.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Re: Gotta love it!

If Jesus was about love, why emphasize the violence committed against him. I am sure that that was his message. Yeah right!

The suffering he went through shows exactly the extent of his love. Not to mention that the suffering, crucifixion, death and subsequent rising from the dead is the most important part of the Christian religion.

 

[EnergizerBunny]

Re: Re: Gotta love it!

The suffering he went through shows exactly the extent of his love. Not to mention that the suffering, crucifixion, death and subsequent rising from the dead is the most important part of the Christian religion.

Yeah that is so sick! I'm gonna make a little model of my mom in agony as she gave birth to me and hang it around my neck to remind me that she loved me soooo. SICK!

Hehehe like I said, I hate controversy!

 

[Cobster]

ok so

how about, before the terbite get together we all go see the film, then hit the SC?

 

[EnergizerBunny]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Gotta love it!

jesus loves you anyway

Of course, what isn't there to love?

 

[Cobster]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gotta love it!

Of course, what isn't there to love?

all that racket you make, banging on those drums

 

[gramage]

the film is based on the actual biblical texts and tries to present exactly how the last 12 hours of Christs life went. the controversy is over the fact that he uses a gospel (I believe this is what the latter books recounting Christs life were called) in which the people stoning Jesus are referred to specifically as "the jews." as I learned a few months ago this is not the only recollection of this incident and is in fact in the minority, most referred to "the mob" or "the people" but as the Romans who actually sentenced Christ (if I have things strait) had joined their church and needed to be exempted of blame.
I think the risk of the film causing a rise in anti-semitism is low, but I havent seen the film (but may go)