The Leafs...LMFAO

[jazzpig]

I'll take the credit, thanks. However some of your comments don't apply. Being a fan of a team is not limited by geography...I'm English and live in Toronto. For me it's not a French/English thing, I just like the game and the Habs!

I don't get how a person born (I presume) and bred in one city can be a fan for a team from another city. I really have a hard time understanding it. I mean, I admire and respect other teams, and their styles, and great players...but to be emotionally attached, I don't understand it. Toronto is our city, it's our community, and our team is an extension of our community, and bonds us in good times and bad. I've gone through periods where I've lost connection with the team for obvious reasons, but I don't latch on to another team either. I don't advocate blind devotion by any means but, what the fuck?
You may be reativley new to the city, this may not apply, I don't know.

 

[dj1470]

If Richard Peddie is still in charge in September it should send a clear message to ALL Leafs fans that, regardless of who the GM is, nothing will have changed.

It's funny that all Leaf fans blame Richard Peddie. Yes, he is the president of the club but he really does get hamstrung by the other shareholders of MLSE all the time. For example Larry Tanenbaum is the CEO of the OTPP and on the MLSE board. The OTPP just gave him a 95% vote of confidence in their last AGM. Until MLSE stops making money hand over fist nothing will ever change. Blame who you want - Peddie, Fletcher, Maurice, or even God himself until Leaf fans wake up and stop shovelling money into the coffers of the owners they need to stay tuned for many more years of heartbreak.

 

[jazzpig]

Until MLSE stops making money hand over fist nothing will ever change. Blame who you want - Peddie, Fletcher, Maurice, or even God himself until Leaf fans wake up and stop shovelling money into the coffers of the owners they need to stay tuned for many more years of heartbreak.

I agree with you to a point. But how much revenue are they leaving on the table by not getting into the playoffs and going deep. Figure the gate, concessions, paraphanalia that will go through the roof, and future growth in advertising and marketing potential.
I think that there is a ton of incentive for the Leafs to be successful. It's not like they have to spend more money, they are maxed out in payroll. You might have to beef up some management layers re: scouting and developement, but you'ld make it it back 3 x with one playoff game.

 

[The Bandit]

As of right now the Habs would face the Bruins. Montreal has owned Boston winning 10 or 11 straight.

Remember the playoffs are a whole new season...example, remember when the Seantors owned the Leafs in the reg season, but not the playoffs. Boston is playing really well right now, Montreal was lucky to come back against Buffalo, and looked "really" bad against the Leafs last night.

 

[Mr. Lucky]

THE LEAFS won Montreal 4-2


WHOOOOO!

 

[dj1470]

IBut how much revenue are they leaving on the table by not getting into the playoffs and going deep.

Doesn't matter really. Even not making the playoffs the Toronto Maple Leafs will be in the top 3 money-making teams in the NHL - perhaps only behind the Rangers and, maybe, the Red Wings. MLSE shareholders could really care less about playoffs. Leaf playoffs? What maybe 4-5 home games at best realistically if they made it? The $$$ comes from concessions and merchandise. MLSE basically uses ticket sales to break even on player salary. And remember that MLSE is a very small part of investments made by their shareholders.

 

[jazzpig]

Doesn't matter really. Even not making the playoffs the Toronto Maple Leafs will be in the top 3 money-making teams in the NHL - perhaps only behind the Rangers and, maybe, the Red Wings. MLSE shareholders could really care less about playoffs. Leaf playoffs? What maybe 4-5 home games at best realistically if they made it? The $$$ comes from concessions and merchandise. MLSE basically uses ticket sales to break even on player salary. And remember that MLSE is a very small part of investments made by their shareholders.

Are you kidding me?
First of all, I'm not talking about just making the playoffs, I'm talking about incentive to build a Cup contender. Fletcher also made this very clear.
If they get to the finals, they will play a minimum 8 home games, and I think 12 is more than realistic cuz it's impossible to sweep your way to the Cup.
By the time you figure price increase for playoffs and what the high end seats and luxury boxes will fetch, you're looking at $300 average per seat, roughly.So 20,000 seats (circa) x $300 = $6,000,000 per game x 12 games = $72,000,000 (give or take). Just to play in the finals. This doesn't include concessions, and paraphanalia, and local T.V and radio broadcast revenue. And to boot, players salaries are all accounted for by the end of the season. That's the risk hockey owners take, doling out large for top players in the hope they can recoup in the playoffs.
This is all gravy less expenses. Are you telling me that $72,000,000 gross over 2 months is nothing?

Secondly, what makes you think this is such a small investment to the shareholders. Show me anything else they're involved in that gives this kind of return on net investment, basically risk free. You have to be involved in organized crime to do better than they are and even that isn't risk free.

And thirdly, in your prior post you charge that " Until MLSE stops making money hand over fist nothing will ever change. Blame who you want - Peddie, Fletcher, Maurice, or even God himself until Leaf fans wake up and stop shovelling money into the coffers of the owners they need to stay tuned for many more years of heartbreak." In your last post you say "And remember that MLSE is a very small part of investments made by their shareholders."
Which one is it?

I think you spend to much time bashing the Leafs and convincing yourself that they will never win another cup, and for what reason, I have no idea.

You're a Hab fan, good for you, enjoy the Habs, so do a lot of Leaf fans including myself. This is a beautiful game, don't waste you're time pissing in somebody else's backyard.

 

[dj1470]

Secondly, what makes you think this is such a small investment to the shareholders. Show me anything else they're involved in that gives this kind of return on net investment, basically risk free. You have to be involved in organized crime to do better than they are and even that isn't risk free.

At the recent OTPP AGM is was mentioned that MLSE constituted 6% of the overall investments for the fund. Monthly dues profit alone into OTPP by their pensioners runs at about $8.1million. OTPP have their hands in so many pies it's incredible. A recent investment in AstraZeneca by the OTPP was worth approximately $2.1billion. Jim Leech the CFO at OTPP has also jokingly said that if MLSE ever lost any money for the fund they would do one of two things either sell their stake in MLSE for 200-210% of it's worth or sell 0.1% of AstraZeneca or another mega-corporation they have their hands in to make up the loss. Since OTPP owns 58% of MLSE you do the math. MLSE is nothing but sideshow for their overall picture at OTPP.

Unfortunately, that is something Leaf fans will never understand. That the majority shareholder really thinks it's somewhat of a joke.

OTPP AGM 2008
Assets and contributions (at December 31, 2007)
Net assets: $106.0 billion
Investment income: $12.3 billion
Benefits paid in 2007: $3.8 billion
Annual contributions*: $1.6 billion

Teachers and the Ontario government
Performance (at December 31, 2007)
Rate of return Benchmark Value added*
2007: 33.2% 9.4% $43.4 billion
Average since 1990: 11.8% 8.9% $220.7 billion

*This is the value created by beating the fund's benchmark

Portfolio (at December 31, 2007)

Equities:
Canadian $16.4 billion
Non-Canadian $32.4 billion

Fixed Income:
Absolute return strategies and hedge funds $15.3 billion
Bonds and money market $6.2 billion

Inflation-Sensitive:
Real Estate $14.5 billion
Real-return bonds $11.8 billion
Infrastructure and timber $6.8 billion
Commodities $2.3 billion *THIS IS WHERE MLSE IS INCLUDED AT $180-190million value

You're a Hab fan, good for you, enjoy the Habs, so do a lot of Leaf fans including myself. This is a beautiful game, don't waste you're time pissing in somebody else's backyard.

Nope not a habs fan. really could care less about them. Just someone who enjoys coming on terb and reading/responding to Leaf fan insanity and stupidity.

As far as a "beautiful" game? Certainly not by the Leafs you mean right? They play like their skates are made out of wood.

 

[jazzpig]

Oh really?
And when did this recent OTTP AGM take place?

 

[MuffDiver]

I'm a life long Habs fan and have remained so as a Toronto resident for the pat 15 years or so.

While my loyalty remains with the Habs, in recent years I have grown to like the Leafs and feel sorry for such a historic team being ruined by horrific ownership for the 2nd time since the 70's.

When they play each other, I root for the Habs. Otherwise I wish the Leafs nothing but success. Sadly that will likely never happen until those MLSE idiots are removed from the equation, or they remove themselves from the problem by hiring a hockey executive that will have complete autonomy to run the hockey team how he feels, within a certain budget.

Besides the recent run of Habs injuries just before the play-offs, my big regret is that the Leafs played well the last 18 games and ruined their chances of drafting a saviour. Getting 6th or 7th pick should still net a solid player, but I really wish they could have netted a top 3 player.

I know arrogant and annoying fans of both teams, but I wish we could be rivals without being silly or insulting.

 

[dj1470]

Oh really?
And when did this recent OTTP AGM take place?

Actually it's OTPP not OTTP - Ontario Teachers Pension Plan
February 8, 2008
Is that all you need or can I help you understand my point in any other way?
Leaf fans are incredible. You just don't get it do you?

 

[dj1470]

but I wish we could be rivals without being silly or insulting.

Not going to happen with Leaf fans involved.

 

[MuffDiver]

Some Habs fans too. I won't go out to watch Habs games with a buddy anymore because he is such an insufferable jerk about our team's success this year.

It really is annoying and I've warned him several times. I'm past the age where I need to be getting into barfights because of someone else's stupidity.

 

[jazzpig]

Actually it's OTPP not OTTP - Ontario Teachers Pension Plan
February 8, 2008
Is that all you need or can I help you understand my point in any other way?
Leaf fans are incredible. You just don't get it do you?

Wow, you're one hostile motherfucker aren't you?

Is this where you got you're numbers from?
http://www.otpp.com/web/website.nsf/web/fastfacts
http://www.otpp.com/ar06/ar06_11_year_review.htm

 

[luv2fress]

my 2 cents

Moved from Mtl to Toronto 27 years ago. Each start of hockey season the Leafs and their fans have the low goal of making it to the playoffs, not winning the cup. In Mtl and other cities (Yankees are a good example) they start their season with the hope, heart, and aspiration of winning the chamionship. It starts with management, and has a lot to do with the heart and desire. As long as making it to the playoffs is your goal, its not likely the team will ever go further. They need managment which reconizes they have to take their licks for a few years like the habs and other teams do, rebuild with a young team and have the goal to win a cup, not settle for a playoff spot.

I am a proud Habs fan, always will be no matter where I live. Say what you want, this years Habs are a fast talented, fun team to watch. If the Habs are out of it, I will cheer for the Leafs!

 

[Herodotus]

Doesn't matter really. Even not making the playoffs the Toronto Maple Leafs will be in the top 3 money-making teams in the NHL - perhaps only behind the Rangers and, maybe, the Red Wings. MLSE shareholders could really care less about playoffs. Leaf playoffs? What maybe 4-5 home games at best realistically if they made it? The $$$ comes from concessions and merchandise. MLSE basically uses ticket sales to break even on player salary. And remember that MLSE is a very small part of investments made by their shareholders.

I believe the Leafs are still #1 in revenues.

If the Leafs go to the finals, they get a guaranteed 8 home dates - more likely 10 - with ridiculously marked-up ticket prices plus concessions, TV rights, etc.

In addition, the title "Reigning/Defending/200X Stanley Cup Champion" is worth a lot more money in sponsorships, TV rights, and other secondary, tertiary and ancillary financial benefits.

Not to mention the increased value of the franchise, which could then be paid in dividends or just selling high and making an even bigger profit.

Yes, it is still small in the larger overall OTPP portfolio, but it is still substantial enough and high-profile enough that they will take notice and treat it with a respect that is beyond its dollar-and-cents value.

 

[elmo]

Yes, it is still small in the larger overall OTPP portfolio, but it is still substantial enough and high-profile enough that they will take notice and treat it with a respect that is beyond its dollar-and-cents value.

No they won't, the OTPP invests to make money and they're very good at it. They could care less if the investment (in this case a hockey team) does anything else as long as it makes money. If at some point in the future the e investment is not performing financially, they will make changes or divest themselves of it.

 

[bendova]

There is no dominant team in the East, so I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if New Jersey wins the conference because they have the best goalie, and New Jersey plays that style.

Carey Price is a nice story, but the NHL playoffs aren't the AHL playoffs. Has Kovalev done anything ever in the playoffs??

Actually we won a cup with the Rangers and also added 21 pts in 23 GP.

And 84 pts in 100 playoff games isn't too bad..

 

[Dartman]

This is my rant??? Toronto have not won the Stanley cup in 41 years. Since 67 how many teams have finished dead last and built the team up and gotten in the finals and won the cup, and how many expansion teams have also won the cup since then. Is it all about bad management since then67. Are you telling me that they have hired all bad people for 41 years???? I seemed to remember a few good people hired!!!! What is it when they get to Toronto what happens. The fans are true diehards in Toronto. Thats their team no matter what happens, I respect that. but when is it going to happen???? Thanks for reading this

 

[jazzpig]

This is my rant??? Toronto have not won the Stanley cup in 41 years. Since 67 how many teams have finished dead last and built the team up and gotten in the finals and won the cup, and how many expansion teams have also won the cup since then. Is it all about bad management since then67. Are you telling me that they have hired all bad people for 41 years???? I seemed to remember a few good people hired!!!! What is it when they get to Toronto what happens. The fans are true diehards in Toronto. Thats their team no matter what happens, I respect that. but when is it going to happen???? Thanks for reading this

Don't get sucked into this vortex of trash and ugliness. Outside of the Ballard's 80's, the Leafs have had success and enjoyable years. The Sittler / Salming years in the 70's were pretty good, early Gilmour/Sundin 90's to a few years ago were great.
In the end it's about winning the cup, but that doesn't mean that everything short of that is complete failure and misery. Yes, the magnitude of desperation and anxiety increases exponentially with each year we don't win because we haven't won in so long, but to sit around and relentlessly spew trash and bile about the team and it's fans is beyond infantile and moronic.
In affect, their rationale would lead you to believe that each year, outside of the S.C winners, every team was a complete failure. The game no longer becomes beautiful and fun and has absolutely no value in it other than the cup itself. What a sorry state to live in!
Imbeciles will come here and rip into the Leafs because they lose, beacause they win and can't get a better draft pick, because MLSE isn't the largest asset in some pension fund portfolio, because fans stick by their team and don't shit all over them like they do.

Fuck off already!

We Leaf fans get sucked into this too. Has anybody sat back and seen how entertaining it's been the last 20-25 games. I realize the season is lost but these players took so much abuse this year and they played some of the most inspired and entertaining hockey I have seen in years. We (myself included) got so hung up about getting a higher draft pick that the game itself meant nothing anymore. At the very least, with the overhaul that's going to take place, the remaining players can hold their heads high going into next year because it's all about competing as hard as you can at all times, even if everyone else wants you to tank.

Believe me, I'm not offended as a Leaf fan because in the end, it's only a game. I'm offended at the lack of dignity and intelligence.
Don't believe the hype.