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The Lancet: Dump Trump

danmand

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Nov 28, 2003
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The COVID-19 pandemic continues to worsen in the USA with 1·3 million cases and an estimated death toll of 80 684 as of May 12. States that were initially the hardest hit, such as New York and New Jersey, have decelerated the rate of infections and deaths after the implementation of 2 months of lockdown. However, the emergence of new outbreaks in Minnesota, where the stay-at-home order is set to lift in mid-May, and Iowa, which did not enact any restrictions on movement or commerce, has prompted pointed new questions about the inconsistent and incoherent national response to the COVID-19 crisis.
The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the flagship agency for the nation's public health, has seen its role minimised and become an ineffective and nominal adviser in the response to contain the spread of the virus. The strained relationship between the CDC and the federal government was further laid bare when, according to The Washington Post, Deborah Birx, the head of the US COVID-19 Task Force and a former director of the CDC's Global HIV/AIDS Division, cast doubt on the CDC's COVID-19 mortality and case data by reportedly saying: “There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust”. This is an unhelpful statement, but also a shocking indictment of an agency that was once regarded as the gold standard for global disease detection and control. How did an agency that was the first point of contact for many national health authorities facing a public health threat become so ill-prepared to protect the public's health?

In the decades following its founding in 1946, the CDC became a national pillar of public health and globally respected. It trained cadres of applied epidemiologists to be deployed in the USA and abroad. CDC scientists have helped to discover new viruses and develop accurate tests for them. CDC support was instrumental in helping WHO to eradicate smallpox. However, funding to the CDC for a long time has been subject to conservative politics that have increasingly eroded the agency's ability to mount effective, evidence-based public health responses. In the 1980s, the Reagan administration resisted providing the sufficient budget that the CDC needed to fight the HIV/AIDS crisis. The George W Bush administration put restrictions on global and domestic HIV prevention and reproductive health programming.
The Trump administration further chipped away at the CDC's capacity to combat infectious diseases. CDC staff in China were cut back with the last remaining CDC officer recalled home from the China CDC in July, 2019, leaving an intelligence vacuum when COVID-19 began to emerge. In a press conference on Feb 25, Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, warned US citizens to prepare for major disruptions to movement and everyday life. Messonnier subsequently no longer appeared at White House briefings on COVID-19. More recently, the Trump administration has questioned guidelines that the CDC has provided. These actions have undermined the CDC's leadership and its work during the COVID-19 pandemic.
There is no doubt that the CDC has made mistakes, especially on testing in the early stages of the pandemic. The agency was so convinced that it had contained the virus that it retained control of all diagnostic testing for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, but this was followed by the admission on Feb 12 that the CDC had developed faulty test kits. The USA is still nowhere near able to provide the basic surveillance or laboratory testing infrastructure needed to combat the COVID-19 pandemic.
But punishing the agency by marginalising and hobbling it is not the solution. The Administration is obsessed with magic bullets—vaccines, new medicines, or a hope that the virus will simply disappear. But only a steadfast reliance on basic public health principles, like test, trace, and isolate, will see the emergency brought to an end, and this requires an effective national public health agency. The CDC needs a director who can provide leadership without the threat of being silenced and who has the technical capacity to lead today's complicated effort.
The Trump administration's further erosion of the CDC will harm global cooperation in science and public health, as it is trying to do by defunding WHO. A strong CDC is needed to respond to public health threats, both domestic and international, and to help prevent the next inevitable pandemic. Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...)31140-5/fulltext#coronavirus-linkback-header
 

Boober69

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Feb 23, 2012
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The population of europe is approx 750 million or twice as large as the US and comparable land size (depending on how much of Russia is included).
160,000 deaths in Europe vs 80,000 deaths in the US.

Considering Europe has an advantage whereby individual governments have more granular control of their respective populations that each are smaller in size, you would think that Europe would be doing much better than the US.
 

apoptygma

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Dec 31, 2017
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The population of europe is approx 750 million or twice as large as the US and comparable land size (depending on how much of Russia is included).
160,000 deaths in Europe vs 80,000 deaths in the US.

Considering Europe has an advantage whereby individual governments have more granular control of their respective populations that each are smaller in size, you would think that Europe would be doing much better than the US.
I'll use an excuse that you trump lemmings use all the time: population density.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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The population of europe is approx 750 million or twice as large as the US and comparable land size (depending on how much of Russia is included).
160,000 deaths in Europe vs 80,000 deaths in the US.

Considering Europe has an advantage whereby individual governments have more granular control of their respective populations that each are smaller in size, you would think that Europe would be doing much better than the US.
Considering it hit Europe about a month before you'd think the US would have had the warning time to prepare and respond better.
 

J.A. Prufrock

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Feb 27, 2018
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Considering it hit Europe about a month before you'd think the US would have had the warning time to prepare and respond better.
The fuhrer set us straight: It's just the flu, a Democratic hoax, something a few slips of Lysol might cure and is worth exploring.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
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Considering it hit Europe about a month before you'd think the US would have had the warning time to prepare and respond better.
Using that logic, the world could have had almost a month's notice if China wasn't lying and controlling the WHO.

Fact is, when you compare like-for-like, Europe hasn't done any better, regardles of socialist leaning healthcare structures or not, than the US despite the narrative anti-US people keep spinning.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
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The fuhrer set us straight: It's just the flu, a Democratic hoax, something a few slips of Lysol might cure and is worth exploring.
And regardless of all of that, the numbers are the same as Europe. Funny eh? I mean, following your narrative, wouldn't you expect them to be a lot worse?
 

Boober69

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Feb 23, 2012
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I'll use an excuse that you trump lemmings use all the time: population density.
I prefer numbers and facts.
I know it pains you to think that Trump hasn't actually done as worse a job as you would like to believe. But don't worry, you'll get over it.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I prefer numbers and facts.
How come the US has almost the same number of cases as all of Europe if they are dealing with it so much better? Europe has twice the population.
Why is Europe (with the exception of Trump's buddy, Putin) flattening the curve while the US is still getting 20-30,000 new cases every day?
 

Boober69

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Feb 23, 2012
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How come the US has almost the same number of cases as all of Europe if they are dealing with it so much better? Europe has twice the population.
Why is Europe (with the exception of Trump's buddy, Putin) flattening the curve while the US is still getting 20-30,000 new cases every day?
Europe has had more than double the numbers of deaths compared to the US.
Flattened curve trends mean nothing is more people are dying.
 

derrick76

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May 10, 2011
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Toronto, ON
Europe has had more than double the numbers of deaths compared to the US.
Flattened curve trends mean nothing is more people are dying.
How much does Europe have now, because the USA has way way more than 80K. More than 90K in fact.

What do you think USA's final tally will be?

And since you're lumping Europe together, should we add USA, Canada and Mexico? lol
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Europe has had more than double the numbers of deaths compared to the US.
Flattened curve trends mean nothing is more people are dying.
You're failing at math again, boob.
Europe has twice the population and twice the deaths so really those numbers are about the same as the US per capita.
The big difference being that the US is about a month behind in the curve so there are more people just going into hospitals and more continually.

Typical right winger trying to fudge the numbers.
 

wigglee

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Oct 13, 2010
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Europe has had more than double the numbers of deaths compared to the US.
Flattened curve trends mean nothing is more people are dying.
The virus took off in Europe a month before it took off in the US, so you'll have to wait a month to compare figures. I'd hazard a wild guess that the US will have reached the 120k mark by then. Therefore they are doing much worse than Europe which has more population density.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I prefer numbers and facts.
I know it pains you to think that Trump hasn't actually done as worse a job as you would like to believe. But don't worry, you'll get over it.
That's fair.

Please show the numbers and facts you are using.
Even deciding what to include in "Europe" makes a difference. There is a good chance people will be using entirely different sets of numbers.

Present where you are getting the numbers from and we can discuss using those numbers.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
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That's fair.

Please show the numbers and facts you are using.
Even deciding what to include in "Europe" makes a difference. There is a good chance people will be using entirely different sets of numbers.

Present where you are getting the numbers from and we can discuss using those numbers.
Is this the part where you don't believe me, then I show you the numbers, and then you pivot to something else? You don't think that I looked up the numbers to begin with? You think I just made them up?

If you want me to show you the numbers, then you need to be prepared to accept the numbers. You can't have it both ways.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
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You're failing at math again, boob.
Europe has twice the population and twice the deaths so really those numbers are about the same as the US per capita.
The big difference being that the US is about a month behind in the curve so there are more people just going into hospitals and more continually.

Typical right winger trying to fudge the numbers.
You're failing at reading what I said.

I said considering the numbers, the US isn't doing as badly as everyone is saying they are when you compare them to Europe.

As of today:
Europe: 163,360 (includes Russia but their numbers of most likely higher)
US: 91,092
North America: 103,186

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%22%20%5Cl%22countries

Typical left winger...not believing the numbers and basing their thinking on pure biased emotion.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
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The virus took off in Europe a month before it took off in the US, so you'll have to wait a month to compare figures. I'd hazard a wild guess that the US will have reached the 120k mark by then. Therefore they are doing much worse than Europe which has more population density.
The deaths in the US would have to almost double to meet Europe's numbers today. You think that will happen in a month?

Population density? India has 23/50 of the highest population dense cities in the world and their numbers are far lower than many places. So not sure what argument you are trying to make.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Is this the part where you don't believe me, then I show you the numbers, and then you pivot to something else? You don't think that I looked up the numbers to begin with? You think I just made them up?

If you want me to show you the numbers, then you need to be prepared to accept the numbers. You can't have it both ways.
I am perfectly willing to accept the numbers. I doubt very much that the numbers say what you think they say, but I could be very wrong.

Europe was brutally hit and performed very badly overall. But my biggest issue is that I don't know anywhere that is counting cases or deaths using the same metrics so I don't know how well anybody is doing on comparison. (You can compare rate of change and probably be reasonably safe, but I'm not even sure of that.)
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
28,291
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You're failing at reading what I said.

I said considering the numbers, the US isn't doing as badly as everyone is saying they are when you compare them to Europe.

As of today:
Europe: 163,360 (includes Russia but their numbers of most likely higher)
US: 91,092
North America: 103,186

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%22%20%5Cl%22countries

Typical left winger...not believing the numbers and basing their thinking on pure biased emotion.
I missed you had already provided your source.
USA and Europe reported their first cases the same week, if I recall. (Late January).

In that time, both have horrific numbers. As you rightly say, the European total deaths is higher. Due to the population difference, deaths per million population is higher on the US. The site doesn't give good long range data on if the death rate is slowing or not.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You're failing at reading what I said.

I said considering the numbers, the US isn't doing as badly as everyone is saying they are when you compare them to Europe.

As of today:
Europe: 163,360 (includes Russia but their numbers of most likely higher)
US: 91,092
North America: 103,186

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%22%20%5Cl%22countries

Typical left winger...not believing the numbers and basing their thinking on pure biased emotion.
This is the third time you've posted bad numbers or bad understanding of science, boob.

Worldometers says the population of Europe is 747 million compared to the US's 330 million.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/

You are trying to compare total numbers for areas of different size populations. By your own terms we could also say that Botswana has 1 registered death to the US's 90,000, so by your terms the US is doing so much worse than Botswana.

Or we could compare using per capita or per million population.
The US has 276 deaths per million population
Europe has 218 deaths per million.
Numbers from worldometer.

The numbers you picked show that Europe is doing much better than the US.

Your incompetence at math, stats and science are astounding.
 
Ashley Madison
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