The Justin Trudeau legacy - the collapse of competence

[fall]

You are confusing aggregate consumption (GDP is aggregate) with average individual wealth.
Canada has a higher median wealth than the U.S. primarily because of a more equal distribution of wealth, a stronger social safety net, and lower national debt.
While the U.S. has a higher mean wealth and higher average salaries, wealth is more concentrated among the very wealthy.
Therefore the majority of the middle and lower classes that make up the population have less of the overall wealth compared to Canada.

What median or average wealth has to do with median or average consumption? GDP is about consumption (floating number, per year) while wealth is a snapshot of assets (accumulated figure up to some point). This is why there is no wealth in the GDP equation, but there is an investment. In case of unequal wealth or income distribution, more people with low wealth and income consume larger portion of their income and do not directly contribute to investment (they do contribute indirectly a lot thorough their consumption) while a small number of people with extremely high wealth/income consume only a tiny portion of their income and contribute a lot to investment. As a result, wealth inequality increases. But the median consumption is not affected much (lower median income or wealth is compensated by the higher propensity to consume). Furthermore, with more effective private investment, tighter hands-on control of investment by owners, and no government waste, efficiency increases, leasing to higher GDP and higher median consumption, Yes, the inequality of income increases, but who cares is someone has $10M or $100M income: the consumption of these people does not differ much, the $200M/year person consume the same as $10M/year person, he just invest more back in the economy. It seems, all the equality worriers skipped the 101 Macroeconomics class and get their economics knowledge from twitter.

Just a quick search shows that median individual income in Canada in 2022 was $43,000 CAD while in was $40,000 UDS (equivalent to $55,000 CAD) in U.S. in 2023. Combine it with larger number of wealthy individual in U.S. who contribute most for the investment spending, and it seems that the average American Joe lives much better than his Canadian poor cousin.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

What median or average wealth has to do with median or average consumption? GDP is about consumption (floating number, per year) while wealth is a snapshot of assets.

Nothing. That was my point. Also median and average - they are not the same things.
Therefore using the average does not paint the right picture because the majority of the actual consumption is an aggregate.
Also, yes we know the difference between GDP and Wealth, which is why wealth is the better metric to use to determine whether or not the average citizen is better off.

Just a quick search shows that median individual income in Canada in 2022 was $43,000 CAD while in was $40,000 UDS (equivalent to $55,000 CAD) in U.S. in 2023

Yes we know income is higher in the US.
We also know that taxes are similar to Canada, while social safety nets are much lower and access to free healthcare is non-existent.
So no the average American is not actually better off than the average Canadian.
See below:

 

[fall]

Nothing. That was my point. Also median and average - they are not the same things.
Therefore using the average does not paint the right picture because the majority of the actual consumption is an aggregate.
Also, yes we know the difference between GDP and Wealth, which is why wealth is the better metric to use to determine whether or not the average citizen is better off.

Yes we know income is higher in the US.
We also know that taxes are similar to Canada, while social safety nets are much lower and access to free healthcare is non-existent.
So no the average American is not actually better off than the average Canadian.
See below:
View attachment 498413

Tell me again why median wealth and not median consumption is the measure of a wellbeing of the median person? At the best of my knowledge, how much a person can consume and not how many zeroes are in his bank account (or, to be pexact, how much is the market value of the assets owned by an individual) is what determines the person's utility.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Tell me again why median wealth and not median consumption is the measure of a wellbeing of the median person?

Because it captures long-term economic security and future opportunity, rather than just present-day spending.
PS: The consumption figure in GDP per capita is an average, not the median.

 

[fall]

The only industrialized country in the world that can't afford universal health care is america.
explain

Easy: people want to pay less for their medical insurance than what they will be forced to pay in taxes for universal healthcare. They want to get medical help when they need it and not when it is their turn in the line. They do not want to wait 8 hours in emergency rooms or have to wait 1 month to see their family physician. They also want to have the best doctors and not the leftovers who are paid half of the money doctors made in the USA. Health services is a product like everything else: in USA anyone without insurance will be treated at the hospital and not left to die, but the quality of treatment depends on how much people are willing to spend on their insurance, and it is their personal choice. In general, they want to rely on themselves and not on the government.

 

[fall]

Because it captures long-term economic security and future opportunity, rather than just present-day spending.
PS: The consumption figure in GDP per capita is an average, not the median.

So, if Mike spends more each year then Bob, but Bob feels more secure because he has more money, then Bob is better off then Mike? I was wrong before, it seems many people skipped not only 101 Macro, but also 101 Microeconomics classes

Yes, GRP/capita is average, but the income figures (with US. being about 40% higher then Canada) is median, not average.

 

[Frankfooter]

Tell me again why median wealth and not median consumption is the measure of a wellbeing of the median person? At the best of my knowledge, how much a person can consume and not how many zeroes are in his bank account (or, to be pexact, how much is the market value of the assets owned by an individual) is what determines the person's utility.

Good point, america only judges how well its doing by how much trump and Musk are making.
Not by lines at food banks or anything.

 

[Frankfooter]

Easy: Health services is a product like everything else: in USA anyone without insurance will be treated at the hospital and not left to die,

This explains the situation more clearly.

Which is why health care is more expensive, services not as good and life expectancy is declining.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

So, if Mike spends more each year then Bob, but Bob feels more secure because he has more money.....

Yeah but Mike is not spending more than Bob because Mike can.
Mike is probably incurring more debt than Bob, to pay his expenses and is most likely broke because he just got diagnosed with a chronic disease for which he doesn't have health coverage.
So on paper, yes Mike is "consuming" more, but in reality, Mike is broke, while Bob has some assets to his name and has better social safety nets, including free healthcare.
To rephrase, you are basically saying "Mike is better off because he pays more for the same shit". That's called being worse off, not better.
Therefore I conclude Bob is better off than Mike. The stats show this as well.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Easy: people want to pay less for their medical insurance than what they will be forced to pay in taxes for universal healthcare.

This is a false statement.
Americans pay significantly more in insurance premiums and out of pocket co-pays, than they would in taxes if they had universal healthcare.

 

[fall]

This is a false statement.
Americans pay significantly more in insurance premiums and out of pocket co-pays, than they would in taxes if they had universal healthcare.

Compare apples to apples please. They may be paying less on average if they have the same level of care as in Canada but keep the efficiency level they have now. But we all know, when the government is involved, there is no efficiencies. And USA will not be able to attract the best professionals if they pay Canadian or European wages and have Canadian or European taxes.

 

[Frankfooter]

Compare apples to apples please. They may be paying less on average if they have the same level of care as in Canada but keep the efficiency level they have now. But we all know, when the government is involved, there is no efficiencies. And USA will not be able to attract the best professionals if they pay Canadian or European wages and have Canadian or European taxes.

Government funded health care always outperforms private.
Even here in Ontario private contracted nurses cost way more than public contracts and private surgeries cost way more than public.
But for DoFo the high cost is a benefit, he can declare he's spending more while all that extra money goes in his donor's pockets.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1931081456543019320

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Compare apples to apples please. They may be paying less on average if they have the same level of care as in Canada but keep the efficiency level they have now.

Canada has world class level of care.
What are you talking about?
And it is not really as efficient as you think it is.
They still have to wait for specialists and wait times in ER are not that different from Canada.
I would say you can get MRIs more easily, but other than that, it is nothing to write home about.
I will take the free world class healthcare in Canada over lack of access in the US any day of the week.

 

[fall]

Government funded health care always outperforms private.
Even here in Ontario private contracted nurses cost way more than public contracts and private surgeries cost way more than public.
But for DoFo the high cost is a benefit, he can declare he's spending more while all that extra money goes in his donor's pockets.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1931081456543019320

You mean public nurses are paid less than private and doctors performing surgeries based on OHIP payments are getting less then based on private payments. In other words, you are saying the medical professionals are underpaid by our government and you are finding it to be OK. No wonder we have shortage of doctors and nurses and all best doctors go to the U.S.

 

[fall]

Canada has world class level of care.
What are you talking about?
And it is not really as efficient as you think it is.
They still have to wait for specialists and wait times in ER are not that different from Canada.
I would say you can get MRIs more easily, but other than that, it is nothing to write home about.
I will take the free world class healthcare in Canada over lack of access in the US any day of the week.

Which "world" yo mean by "world class level of care" The world without the U.S.? Completely agree. But Canadian healthcare is a shitty one comparable to the U.S. Yes, they will not let you die in Canada, but all that waiting for an appointment will turn an easily treatable condition at its early stage in almost untreatable by the time you get to see the right doctor or get your MRI done. By prioritizing urgent cases we let non-urgent to develop into urgent. People who do not want to let their conditions top get worsen before getting treatment go to the U.S.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Which "world" yo mean by "world class level of care" The world without the U.S.? Completely agree. But Canadian healthcare is a shitty one comparable to the U.S. Yes, they will not let you die in Canada, but all that waiting for an appointment will turn an easily treatable condition at its early stage in almost untreatable by the time you get to see the right doctor or get your MRI done. By prioritizing urgent cases we let non-urgent to develop into urgent. People who do not want to let their conditions top get worsen before getting treatment go to the U.S.

You have to wait in the US too.
It isn't any different.
And I have always been able to access care when I needed it.
You just have to show a little initiative to call around.
The only thing you'd have to wait a lot is an MRI.
I'll take this over going broke and getting dead in the US.

 

[Frankfooter]

You mean public nurses are paid less than private and doctors performing surgeries based on OHIP payments are getting less then based on private payments. In other words, you are saying the medical professionals are underpaid by our government and you are finding it to be OK. No wonder we have shortage of doctors and nurses and all best doctors go to the U.S.

Nurses make a tiny bit more but the agencies cost the government 3 times more.
DoFo's donors cash in, DoFo claims to be spending more and we get way worse service for way more money.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1923398544242659829

 

[squeezer]

PEE PEE is once again making a fool of himself while Justin is living life and banging hotties.

It doesn't look like he's going to win the leadership approval if this convoy-loving twat and Trump wannabe keeps going down the same path let alone ever becoming PM. I personally hope the party gives him another chance. We all need to do a little pee-pee now and then.

Conservatives urged to soften stance after Poilievre’s comments on ‘despicable’ RCMP face backlash

https://www.ipolitics.ca/2025/10/21/liberals-greens-ndp-call-on-poilievre-to-apologize-over-rcmp-comments/

 

[richaceg]

PEE PEE is once again making a fool of himself while Justin is living life and banging hotties.

It doesn't look like he's going to win the leadership approval if this convoy-loving twat and Trump wannabe keeps going down the same path let alone ever becoming PM. I personally hope the party gives him another chance. We all need to do a little pee-pee now and then.

Conservatives urged to soften stance after Poilievre’s comments on ‘despicable’ RCMP face backlash
https://www.ipolitics.ca/2025/10/21/liberals-greens-ndp-call-on-poilievre-to-apologize-over-rcmp-comments/

I don't want to unearth what's left of Justin T's political career. I'm just glad he's done...he might have left a bad taste but I see him in my rear view mirror enjoying his time with Katy Perry...good for him but his legacy is "humankind"...that's it...

 

[JohnLarue]

I don't want to unearth what's left of Justin T's political career. I'm just glad he's done...he might have left a bad taste but I see him in my rear view mirror enjoying his time with Katy Perry...good for him but his legacy is "humankind"...that's it...

i believe we will look back @ the Justin Trudeau decade as the reason for a significant lowering of our national standard of living

selecting a leader because he has a famous name was a terrible idea

we wound up with an irresponsible, corrupt, fool of a leader with a famous last name