The Ironies of Election 2004

[n_v]

With the Federal Election now over and the seat distribution, for the most part, decided I cannot help but notice the ironies of this result.
Alot of people on this board have been venting and blasting the Liberals for imcompitence for wasting money while in power. People have voted out of anger and protest against the Liberals primarily because of the Sponshorship scandal. This scandal cost taxpayers anywhere between $120-$150 million. While I do not wish to downplay the issue of fiscal repsonsibility and trust, we voted by our frustrations and elected a minority government. Knowing that historically minority governments don't last longer than 2 years, we, the taxpayers, will have to foot a bill of about $230 million to run an election that would otherwise not be necessary if there was a majority government. We will spend an extra $230 million dollars because we are upset $130 million dollars was wasted??!! Talk about taxpayer money being pissed away. But then again this is what we wanted.

The second irony is with the new Conservative party. From the conclusion of the last federal election to the beginning of this one the Right's sole concern and vestige has been to unite the two federal right wing parties into one to bring down the Liberals. Well in all their efforts to turn the country to the right, they have helped this country turn to the LEFT like it has not been in recent memory. Congrats Mckay and Harper!!

Just some musings from the results of this most interesting election.

 

[galt]

However, I would add the following postscript....What a difference a couple of hours makes.....

When election coverage ended seat distribution looked something like the following

Fiberals 136
Conservative 95
Bloc 54
NDP 22
Ind 1

Jack Layton was set to be the king maker and hold the balance of power. However, not so fast....some of the mathameticians were a little premature in declaring Blair Wilson (Fiberal) the winner over Conservative John Reynolds. At the time of this writing and with 11 polls to report in Reynolds now leads by 1100 and has been declared the winner. The race in New Wesminster Coquitlam came down to the wire with the Conservative incumbant passing and edging out the NDP at the wire and with a couple of other reversals of fortune for the Fiberals and the NDP we now have a very different Parliament than when most of Eastern Canada went to bed. The seat distribution (assuming all of the madatory recounts hold up) looks as follows

Fiberals 135
Conservatives 99
Bloc 54
NDP 19
Ind 1

This means that to negotiate a bipartisan deal, Martin will have to crawl into bed with the Bloc and run a very Quebec centered adgenda which will spell doom for the Fiberals in future elections. Furthermore, and much to Martin's terror, the Bloc will be driving harder than anyone to get to the bottom of adscam and you can rest assured that they will. Remember, when the day comes, that Martin is on record as saying he will resign if he is implicated. I bet he's literally shaking in his boots now because the independent, the Conservatives, the Bloc and more than a few NDP members certainly want the answers on this one and now the Fiberals cannot shut it down alone.

Alternatively Martin has to swing a deal with multiple parties to be able to run a government. Even if he manages to swing a deal with the NDP the irony is the balance of power in our country will be held by an independent (an independent that has VERY Conservative roots as one of the consultants on the Reform Party's Victims' Bill of Rights and Crime Policy). Remember...Fiberal arrogance is not well suited to two party deals let alone 3 or 4 party deals. They're used to dictating and fear mongering. The distribution of this house will not allow itself to be dictated to.

I'm not overjoyed by the results of the election. Ontario has, once again, let the rest of Canada down by falling into the trap of Fiberal Negativity and Half Truths. On the bright side, six months ago when the Conservatives formed their new party I never imagined that they would give the Fiberals such a run for their money. They have shown that they are here to stay and that the tax and spend Fiberals now have to be accountable because they do have a real challenge. They now have to produce and start working for Canadians instead of themselves.

As the Conservative Party and platform becomes more well known and people become more informed about it the Fiberal scare tactics will start to lose their effectiveness.

 

[Talerion]

Fiberals 135
Conservatives 99
Bloc 54
NDP 19
Ind 1

I'm not overjoyed by the results of the election. Ontario has, once again, let the rest of Canada down by falling into the trap of Fiberal Negativity and Half Truths. On the bright side, six months ago when the Conservatives formed their new party I never imagined that they would give the Fiberals such a run for their money. They have shown that they are here to stay and that the tax and spend Fiberals now have to be accountable because they do have a real challenge. They now have to produce and start working for Canadians instead of themselves.

As the Conservative Party and platform becomes more well known and people become more informed about it the Fiberal scare tactics will start to lose their effectiveness.

Just a couple of clarifications though.

The total Liberal/NDP seats equals 154 which is half of the 308. Martin would then select a Conservative as the Speaker which puts the voting members as 154 Lib/NDP 153 other. So Martin will not in fact have to make a deal with the Bloc. Besides the Conservatives will undoubtedly vote with them on most of the issues anyway.


As per your obvious passion for the Conservatives I would suggest that you put your efforts into getting your party to wake up and learn a few simple lessons from what happened and why your party lost an election that they owned only a couple of weeks back.

Of course that won't happen. We'll hear more of the Canadians are sheep garbage rather than any self introspection. How many years have we heard, "Unite The Right"? Well it happened and even with a divisive leadership change and a scandal the united right couldn't garner a win.

Maybe what needs to be considered isn't so much that most of Canada, (Ontario specifically), isn't Liberal in as much as they are not "Right Wing" and until such time as the new Conservative Party gets it through their head that they cannot operate on the premise that Ontario will select a reactionary party they don't want to punish a centrist party they dislike.

In simpler terms the Conservatives have got to realize that core Alliance/Reform positions are not endorsed by the majoirty fo the country. In turn when the complaint goes out about Ontario not failing the country, it is in fact the Conservatives who failed the country by not providing a valid conservative alternative.


Overall this election offers all three national parties a chance to learn but I fear none will take it:

The NDP should take notice that Olivia Chow lost because the Green Party sucked away enough votes for the Liberal to defeat her in her own backyard. The Green candidate nearly beat the Conservative no less. Rather than simply being the vote collector for this months disatisfied Conservative or Liberal the NDP had better re-think its role or find itself replaced by a new left.

The Liberals have been given a second chance solely by the reality that the Conservatives attempted to win upon; they were not the Conservatives. While anecdotal I have never seen so much anger expressed toward Liberal candidates that yet resulted in such a strong votign endorsement. However I expect rather than try to fix the problems they will instead work on re-establishing their loses to the Bloc.

The Conservatives lost an election that was theirs a mere 10 days back. Why? Not because Ontario is inherently left wing but rather because the Conservatives offered vagaries in policy and have refused to confirm that the core religious-reactionary members will not be allowed to forward their agenda. Ontario did not want to be in a position to have to say, "we did not vote you in for this!"

However I already heard the Conservative strategists talking tonight about how in the next election they will need to establish moer discipline with their candidates - translation: do not speak the truth to the public, let us get elected and then we'll see what happens - rather than tell their candidates, "if you want to join our party then you will have to leave the wacko reactionary shit at the door."


I would welcome a Conservative option when it came to voting. I do not however welcome a grassroots reactionary vision and if that is all the Untied Right can come up I expect it will fair no better than a divided right.

Which of course begs the question; if the Conservatives REALLY think the Liberals are so bad, then isn't it more important to maybe give up some of the extremist positions to provide good Government? Or is it that they and their supporters are simply the anti-thesis of the current Government?


Everyone has two years to figure this out starting now. Why do I expect that things will not have changed at all when that time comes?


T.

 

[galt]

Just a couple of clarifications though.

The total Liberal/NDP seats equals 154 which is half of the 308. Martin would then select a Conservative as the Speaker which puts the voting members as 154 Lib/NDP 153 other. So Martin will not in fact have to make a deal with the Bloc. Besides the Conservatives will undoubtedly vote with them on most of the issues anyway.

First of all, the speaker of the house is elected by all members not appointed and the Conservatives would not be wise to put ANY name forward for this position. The Liberals probably will thereby decreasing their share of power in the house. The only party that would not be material diminished in power by having one of their members as speaker would be the Bloc.

As for the Liberal "win" we need to consider that only 6 months ago this was a party that simply needed to be crowned for another 4-5 years of arrogance and theft. They were brought to their knees by a 6 month old party and a bunch of seperatists. Only to be propped up by a single province. What does that say about their lame duck leader. The leader that in only a few short months lost them the crown and started to push this country from renewable virtual dictatorship to something close to a democracy

 

[RogerRabbit]

Minority government is good in many ways, such as fiscal restraint, accountability, etc.

 

[n_v]

bbking is right. The Bloc has the most seats as they ever had before and I don't see them rushing to the polls to vote themselves onto the unemployment line. Also, the Lib-NDP alliance would be enough by the thinnest of margins if the independent becomes the speaker. That alliance would be 154 in a 307 seat house.

 

[RogerRabbit]

The Liberals/ NDP seem short a seat or two to move legislation?

 

[n_v]

The Liberals/ NDP seem short a seat or two to move legislation?

I don't think so. It is the slimmest margin though by which to govern. Their attendence in the House has to be stellar.

 

[booboobear]

Talk about taxpayer money being pissed away. But then again this is what we wanted.



Just some musings from the results of this most interesting election.

No this is not what we wanted . I for one wanted a conservative government that's why I voted for them. i thought that was the idea of voting.

 

[n_v]

Re: Re: The Ironies of Election 2004

No this is not what we wanted . I for one wanted a conservative government that's why I voted for them. i thought that was the idea of voting.

It is what 'we' wanted. Maybe not what 'you' wanted, but is what 'we' wanted.

 

[tompeepin]

Re: Re: The Ironies of Election 2004

No this is not what we wanted. I for one wanted a conservative government that's why I voted for them. i thought that was the idea of voting.

One word ... proportional representation ... ok two words then.

What would the seat distribution look like if there was proportional representation. I am sure that the Bloc would not have gotten 54 seats. But that is just a guess and it would depend on how proprotional representation would be implemented.

Pure proportional representation.

Liberals - 113
Conservatives - 91
NDP - 48
Bloc - 38
Green - 13
Independent - 5 ?

Meaning a Liberal-NDP coalition government with 161 seats. That is the will of the people where every vote counts. Again the conservative voters would be pissed off. They want nothing but their will to be done; and would be happy with nothing less.

 

[n_v]

Re: Re: Re: The Ironies of Election 2004

What would the seat distribution look like if there was proprotional representation.

Minority Government!!

 

[tompeepin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ironies of Election 2004

Minority Government!!

Yeah; so??? It would mean no more four-year (or 11 year) dictatorships by the Prime Minister. And more grass roots politics where the constituents are listened to for free votes by their representative in the house of commons.

I know people are afraid of change, but this is 2004 and not 1904. Let's progress.

 

[johnhenrygalt]

I was hoping for a Conservative majority - as unlikely as that may have been. Paul Martin precipitated this election (1) to avoid having to deal with the sponsorship scandal before an election and (2) to force the Conservatives into an election before they had a chance to hammer out a coherent platform.

I'm dissappointed that this Liberal manipulation of the electoral system was rewarded, but it may work for the best. All the Conservative MPs are now elected under the Conservative banner, giving electoral approval to the merger. Unencumbered by government, they will now have the opportunity to elaborate a program and work out the bugs. All leaders pledged to work together to make this Parliament work. With the razor thin margin, the views of individual MPs will be valued and will have to be taken into account.

 

[Angel3d]

I am a long time e liberal and I am happy with the minority government. It will reign in their arrogance, and make them more accountable to the people.

Anyway I think that it was Harper how lost the election more so than Martin winning it. They main things that killed him where.

The child pornography comment.
And the prediction of the Conservatives running Canada (don’t remember his exact words).

OH my 2 cents.

 

[n_v]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ironies of Election 2004

Yeah; so???

I just answered your question peepin. Under prop rep we would have minority governments coming out of our yin yang. Not commenting if that is better or worse, just that it is a fact.

 

[Pallydin]

Yeah, pending any recounts, that independent guy is the single most important Canadian in politics. He literally holds the power to make or break government on a whim (swaying to the Liberals/NDP to make 155 or to the CPC/Bloc to topple things).....now is *that* what anyon wanted (except maybe the handful of people who voted for him/her)?

Anyone know who the independent is and what riding will be getting whatever it wants for a few years now?

PAL

 

[booboobear]

Re: Re: Re: The Ironies of Election 2004

It is what 'we' wanted. Maybe not what 'you' wanted, but is what 'we' wanted.

Who is we ? I don't think you can speak for any voters but yourself. I for one wanted a majority conservative government
I am so sick of liberal lies.

 

[tompeepin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Ironies of Election 2004

Who is we ? ... I for one wanted a majority conservative government.

It does not take a rocket scientist to determine that the 'we' implies the 36.7% of Canadians who voted in this minority Liberal government. I bet you would like a US style system where the Conservatives with a lesser proportion of the popular vote could have wrested control, so that you would have gotten your way.

 

[n_v]

Yeah, pending any recounts, that independent guy is the single most important Canadian in politics. He literally holds the power to make or break government on a whim (swaying to the Liberals/NDP to make 155 or to the CPC/Bloc to topple things).....now is *that* what anyon wanted (except maybe the handful of people who voted for him/her)?

Anyone know who the independent is and what riding will be getting whatever it wants for a few years now?

PAL

http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/riding/297/

A former PC Party guy that has run independent and is ill with cancer if I am not mistaken.