There were many lessons learned in the operation warp speed rush that will improve future research.
The Erasing of American ScienceHow far can the Trump administration bend U.S. research before it breaks?
- Thread starter Knuckle Ball
- Start date
They have academic freedom.
But they aren't free from consequences.
Not long.
He always complained that they were obviously crooked by not telling him things he wants to believe.
And the new EO says DOGE will have a political minion overseeing every agency and vetting what they produce.
Most information coming out of government agencies will be completely untrustworthy soon.
The issue will be whether or not people manage to keep the real numbers hidden in an archive somewhere so in the future they can still be used or whether there will just be a gap with no reliable information for stats that persists forever.
They have acadenic freedom, but they aren't free to express their opinions? Then what good is that "freedom"?
It is acceptable to fire someone for disagreements over values.
It means the person is not a good cultural fit with your organization.
They are free to express it.
They are not free from the consequences of doing so.
I'm so used to seeing that argument set up with the frame of "basic science burns cash" that I jumped the gun.
My apologies.
No it isn't.
That can be tenure (something which has been under attack for ages) but it's again not relevant to the examples you've given.
The only one who was fired was Watson, and that was from a PR job, not a research one.
We're talking about manipulating science, not "people get push back for their ideas i public".
It is you that is being stupid if you dont understand the difference between freedom of expression and consequences.
Especially if that person occupies a PR job.
If it is an academic research position it gets trickier and starts to blend into "is this about their research or is it about other opinions of theirs".
Scientists at U.S. weather forecasting agency ordered to get clearance before talking to Canadian counterparts
Former official says NOAA workforce could be halved, sending ripple effects around the world
Jaela Bernstien · CBC News · Posted: Feb 18, 2025 4:00 AM EST | Last Updated: 7 hours ago
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) is a world-renowned scientific agency, providing research funding and weather monitoring, like this 2024 satellite image it captured of Hurricane Helen in the Gulf of Mexico. (NOAA/The Associated Press)
Travelling for international meetings or even joining a call with Canadian counterparts has become impossible for some U.S. government scientists, under new directives since U.S. President Donald Trump took office.
Canadian ecologist Aaron Fisk says he recently tried to set up a virtual call to discuss plans with American colleagues, including a government scientist, around sampling fish.
"We tried to have a quick meeting with one of our collaborators … and they were denied access," Fisk said.
Given that the Great Lakes — and their aquatic life — straddle both sides of the border, having American scientists suddenly barred from meetings has had deep impacts.
That, combined with funding freezes, is drastically altering the way science works in North America, at least for now.
Fisk, who is the Canada Research Chair in Changing Great Lakes Ecosystems at the University of Windsor, receives funding from the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) for his work.
Aaron Fisk, Canada Research Chair in Changing Great Lakes Ecosystems at the University of Windsor, studies fish ecology and climate impacts on Lake Erie. He said he's fortunate to be able to continue some of his Canadian-funded science while U.S. research funds are frozen. (Anand Ram/CBC)
NOAA, a federal agency, provides scientific information, research and forecasting including daily weather reports, hurricane tracking, climate modelling and marine monitoring.
Fisk says the total U.S. research funds he's had frozen add up to more than $700,000, or about $993,000 Cdn.
That's left two of his Great Lakes research projects on hold — one related to studying the movement of fish and one that used autonomous underwater vehicles to study how climate change is affecting Lake Erie.
What internal NOAA emails reveal
CBC News has seen emails sent to NOAA employees, directing staff to get senior approval on "all upcoming international engagements" until the end of March 2025.
The new guidance from the NOAA policy team states that limits on "international engagements should be applied broadly" to include all NOAA-funded international travel, travel within the U.S. for international meetings, as well as all virtual meetings about an international topic, policy or scientific collaboration.
Virtual meetings are also required to be submitted for review if they touch on an array of topics including: climate, energy, offshore wind, ocean mapping and exploration, competitive seafood, aquaculture, ocean plastics, the World Meteorological Organization, Arctic security and Arctic energy.
Emails with international counterparts that are scientific in nature and involve the exchange of scientific data must also be submitted for review.
CBC News has agreed to protect the identity of the sources who shared this information because they fear retaliation.
CBC News reached out to multiple NOAA officials to ask for comment.
NOAA Fisheries spokesperson Rachel Hager denied that federal scientists have been ordered to stop communicating with international counterparts.
In a separate email, Mona Allen, director of public affairs for NOAA Research, said the agency remains committed to serving the American public and that "we continue to work with partners to provide these important services."
'Draconian' changes bad for planet, scientist says
The mission statement still posted on NOAA's website states that its role "extends beyond national borders" to monitor global weather and climate and to "work with partners around the world."
But the internal emails obtained by CBC News appear to undermine that central objective.
"It's very draconian," Fisk said.
Research on the Great Lakes, including Lake Erie shown here, has relied on cross-border collaboration for decades. (Evan Mitsui/CBC)
Throughout his career, up until Trump's recent inauguration, he said it was normal to share resources, ideas and data with colleagues south of the border.
"The Great Lakes is an excellent place to show where Canada and the United States come together to do really good research," Fisk said. "It's like the border doesn't even exist."
Fisk said emails with his U.S. counterparts have slowed to a minimum, and that he's not the only one at the University of Windsor who has had their research put on hold.
From studying the impacts of climate change to tracking a hurricane as it travels from the Caribbean up the U.S. coast to Canada, NOAA's work is closely intertwined with Canadian weather forecasting and research.
Many are worried what it will mean for the international research community if a global leader like the U.S. is headed down a path of scientific isolationism.
Gretchen Goldman, president of the Union of Concerned Scientists, put it simply: "I think science is under attack in the United States."
But she encouraged her colleagues to not give up hope. "I think we should hold the line and take it day by day," she told CBC News.
Former NOAA official: workforce could be halved
Reports of looming mass layoffs at the U.S. agency have also struck a chill among many federal scientists.
Janne Haugen, a fisheries ecologist, is a NOAA affiliate who works for a company contracted by the U.S. government.
Haugen told CBC News that, for now, she's being cautious and limiting communication with international colleagues to technical aspects of the job.
"I do have emails from other collaborators that I haven't responded to," she said.
"I just don't want to put my head on a chopping block and get fired if I respond in a way that's interpreted as something that I shouldn't do."
Andrew Rosenberg, a former deputy director of NOAA's National Marine Fisheries Service, told CBC News that slashing 50 per cent of the agency's workforce is being discussed on Capitol Hill and within NOAA.
"This is a transition of destruction. I've never seen anything like it," said Rosenberg, a marine scientist.
While attending a conference in Boston, hosted by the American Association for the Advancement of Science, former NOAA official Andrew Rosenberg told CBC News that he's furious to witness the 'slashing and burning' of such an important scientific institution. (Jaela Bernstien/CBC)
He said it's normal for political priorities to shift under a newly elected government, but nothing like this.
The firehose of policy changes targeting American scientific institutions is not limited to NOAA.
A communication freeze at the National Institutes of Health has created chaos, and disappearing data sets form the Centers for Disease Control has sent Canadians racing to archive the information before it is lost.
Also in the crosshairs is the Environmental Protection Agency, where hundreds of staff have been terminated.
According to Rémi Quirion, the president of the International Network for Governmental Science Advice, there's no denying there will be ripple effects if this is part of a long-term trend toward dismantling, or at least severely restricting, the work of American scientific institutions.
"Science should be without borders," Quirion said. "I think globally, it will slow down progress and research."
No official notice on changes, says Canadian government
The Canadian federal government, for its part, said it hadn't received official notice of any changes to its collaboration with NOAA.
In an email, Environment and Climate Change Canada (ECCC) spokesperson Samantha Bayard underlined the longstanding relationship with U.S. counterparts.
"ECCC and NOAA also collaborate daily on a number of different fronts, including in Arctic waters and the Great Lakes through joint ice observations and forecasts via the North American Ice Service, and producing integrated weather models as part of the North American Ensemble Forecast System," Bayard said.
Quirion suggested the situation could create some benefits for Canada. As the chief scientist of Quebec in a role advising the provincial government, he said this could be a chance to draw talent.
"Already we have inquiries in Quebec … Canadian scientists in the U.S. that are thinking maybe it's time to go back home," he said.
But for many, it's too early to see any silver linings.
Rosenberg, who has more than 35 years of experience in government and academic work, said he's furious.
"Does it have an impact on Canada and the rest of the world? You bet," he said. "The U.S. has the strongest science enterprise in the world and these people are throwing it away."
Trump literally wants to hide and censor data about the fucking weather.
smh
Former official says NOAA workforce could be halved, sending ripple effects around the world
Jaela Bernstien · CBC News · Posted: Feb 18, 2025 4:00 AM EST | Last Updated: 7 hours ago
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) is a world-renowned scientific agency, providing research funding and weather monitoring, like this 2024 satellite image it captured of Hurricane Helen in the Gulf of Mexico. (NOAA/The Associated Press)
Travelling for international meetings or even joining a call with Canadian counterparts has become impossible for some U.S. government scientists, under new directives since U.S. President Donald Trump took office.
Canadian ecologist Aaron Fisk says he recently tried to set up a virtual call to discuss plans with American colleagues, including a government scientist, around sampling fish.
"We tried to have a quick meeting with one of our collaborators … and they were denied access," Fisk said.
Given that the Great Lakes — and their aquatic life — straddle both sides of the border, having American scientists suddenly barred from meetings has had deep impacts.
That, combined with funding freezes, is drastically altering the way science works in North America, at least for now.
Fisk, who is the Canada Research Chair in Changing Great Lakes Ecosystems at the University of Windsor, receives funding from the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) for his work.
Aaron Fisk, Canada Research Chair in Changing Great Lakes Ecosystems at the University of Windsor, studies fish ecology and climate impacts on Lake Erie. He said he's fortunate to be able to continue some of his Canadian-funded science while U.S. research funds are frozen. (Anand Ram/CBC)
NOAA, a federal agency, provides scientific information, research and forecasting including daily weather reports, hurricane tracking, climate modelling and marine monitoring.
Fisk says the total U.S. research funds he's had frozen add up to more than $700,000, or about $993,000 Cdn.
That's left two of his Great Lakes research projects on hold — one related to studying the movement of fish and one that used autonomous underwater vehicles to study how climate change is affecting Lake Erie.
What internal NOAA emails reveal
CBC News has seen emails sent to NOAA employees, directing staff to get senior approval on "all upcoming international engagements" until the end of March 2025.
The new guidance from the NOAA policy team states that limits on "international engagements should be applied broadly" to include all NOAA-funded international travel, travel within the U.S. for international meetings, as well as all virtual meetings about an international topic, policy or scientific collaboration.
Virtual meetings are also required to be submitted for review if they touch on an array of topics including: climate, energy, offshore wind, ocean mapping and exploration, competitive seafood, aquaculture, ocean plastics, the World Meteorological Organization, Arctic security and Arctic energy.
Emails with international counterparts that are scientific in nature and involve the exchange of scientific data must also be submitted for review.
CBC News has agreed to protect the identity of the sources who shared this information because they fear retaliation.
CBC News reached out to multiple NOAA officials to ask for comment.
NOAA Fisheries spokesperson Rachel Hager denied that federal scientists have been ordered to stop communicating with international counterparts.
In a separate email, Mona Allen, director of public affairs for NOAA Research, said the agency remains committed to serving the American public and that "we continue to work with partners to provide these important services."
'Draconian' changes bad for planet, scientist says
The mission statement still posted on NOAA's website states that its role "extends beyond national borders" to monitor global weather and climate and to "work with partners around the world."
But the internal emails obtained by CBC News appear to undermine that central objective.
"It's very draconian," Fisk said.
Research on the Great Lakes, including Lake Erie shown here, has relied on cross-border collaboration for decades. (Evan Mitsui/CBC)
Throughout his career, up until Trump's recent inauguration, he said it was normal to share resources, ideas and data with colleagues south of the border.
"The Great Lakes is an excellent place to show where Canada and the United States come together to do really good research," Fisk said. "It's like the border doesn't even exist."
Fisk said emails with his U.S. counterparts have slowed to a minimum, and that he's not the only one at the University of Windsor who has had their research put on hold.
From studying the impacts of climate change to tracking a hurricane as it travels from the Caribbean up the U.S. coast to Canada, NOAA's work is closely intertwined with Canadian weather forecasting and research.
Many are worried what it will mean for the international research community if a global leader like the U.S. is headed down a path of scientific isolationism.
Gretchen Goldman, president of the Union of Concerned Scientists, put it simply: "I think science is under attack in the United States."
But she encouraged her colleagues to not give up hope. "I think we should hold the line and take it day by day," she told CBC News.
Former NOAA official: workforce could be halved
Reports of looming mass layoffs at the U.S. agency have also struck a chill among many federal scientists.
Janne Haugen, a fisheries ecologist, is a NOAA affiliate who works for a company contracted by the U.S. government.
Haugen told CBC News that, for now, she's being cautious and limiting communication with international colleagues to technical aspects of the job.
"I do have emails from other collaborators that I haven't responded to," she said.
"I just don't want to put my head on a chopping block and get fired if I respond in a way that's interpreted as something that I shouldn't do."
Andrew Rosenberg, a former deputy director of NOAA's National Marine Fisheries Service, told CBC News that slashing 50 per cent of the agency's workforce is being discussed on Capitol Hill and within NOAA.
"This is a transition of destruction. I've never seen anything like it," said Rosenberg, a marine scientist.
While attending a conference in Boston, hosted by the American Association for the Advancement of Science, former NOAA official Andrew Rosenberg told CBC News that he's furious to witness the 'slashing and burning' of such an important scientific institution. (Jaela Bernstien/CBC)
He said it's normal for political priorities to shift under a newly elected government, but nothing like this.
The firehose of policy changes targeting American scientific institutions is not limited to NOAA.
A communication freeze at the National Institutes of Health has created chaos, and disappearing data sets form the Centers for Disease Control has sent Canadians racing to archive the information before it is lost.
Also in the crosshairs is the Environmental Protection Agency, where hundreds of staff have been terminated.
According to Rémi Quirion, the president of the International Network for Governmental Science Advice, there's no denying there will be ripple effects if this is part of a long-term trend toward dismantling, or at least severely restricting, the work of American scientific institutions.
"Science should be without borders," Quirion said. "I think globally, it will slow down progress and research."
No official notice on changes, says Canadian government
The Canadian federal government, for its part, said it hadn't received official notice of any changes to its collaboration with NOAA.
In an email, Environment and Climate Change Canada (ECCC) spokesperson Samantha Bayard underlined the longstanding relationship with U.S. counterparts.
"ECCC and NOAA also collaborate daily on a number of different fronts, including in Arctic waters and the Great Lakes through joint ice observations and forecasts via the North American Ice Service, and producing integrated weather models as part of the North American Ensemble Forecast System," Bayard said.
Quirion suggested the situation could create some benefits for Canada. As the chief scientist of Quebec in a role advising the provincial government, he said this could be a chance to draw talent.
"Already we have inquiries in Quebec … Canadian scientists in the U.S. that are thinking maybe it's time to go back home," he said.
But for many, it's too early to see any silver linings.
Rosenberg, who has more than 35 years of experience in government and academic work, said he's furious.
"Does it have an impact on Canada and the rest of the world? You bet," he said. "The U.S. has the strongest science enterprise in the world and these people are throwing it away."
Trump literally wants to hide and censor data about the fucking weather.
smh
trump is shutting down science in the US.
Now scientists need permission from the government to talk about science to foreigners.
Now scientists need permission from the government to talk about science to foreigners.
During the Cold War, the US leadership knew that the best way to geopolitically win was through a massive investment in math and science education, starting from the elementary level. Today's leadership on the right are doing the polar opposite, throwing away their country's future simply so they can be captain of a sinking ship.
