The end of the Canadian Wheat Board

[fuji]

I am still waiting for someone to explain how the farmers East of the Manitoba border have been very successful for decades without the CWB.

It's fine that you don't understand, and you are clearly asking for someone to educate you. This is where you should have started out. Instead you started out pasting an ignorant opinion on a topic you knew nothing about.

I'm happy to educate you on the subject. The CWB controls enough of the supply of wheat that it can influence prices. It does this primarily for the benefit of CWB farmers, but non-CWB farmers plainly benefit too. This plainly benefits wheat farmers at the expense of wheat consumers.
benefit

Ontario's wheat producers represent only a tiny fraction of the total supply of wheat, and are basically price takers--they have to accept whatever price the market is offering, and do not have enough of a supply to be able to influence pricing. On the other hand, CWB's ability to regulate the supply of wheat allows it to influence the supply side of the market, driving up prices by restricting supply when necessary.

 

[Mervyn]

It's fine that you don't understand, and you are clearly asking for someone to educate you. This is where you should have started out. Instead you started out pasting an ignorant opinion on a topic you knew nothing about.

I'm happy to educate you on the subject. The CWB controls enough of the supply of wheat that it can influence prices. It does this primarily for the benefit of CWB farmers, but non-CWB farmers plainly benefit too. This plainly benefits wheat farmers at the expense of wheat consumers.

To sum it up, they are like opec, except with wheat.

 

[Anynym]

It would probably have been better to not simply cut-and-paste an article which contradicts itself many times.

For example, "Western wheat production is ten times that of Eastern Canada (Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes combined)." ... but ... "Ontario produces less than 10% of Canada’s wheat, the Prairies produce 80%."

Once your credibility is gone, whatever facts you may have become lost.

 

[fuji]

To sum it up, they are like opec, except with wheat.

Exactly.

In fact, in my opinion, once Keystone XL is built, or we develop some other method of exporting our oil--whether to the US or to Asia--it would benefit Canada considerably to join OPEC, to ensure that oil prices remain high.

 

[Relic]

It's fine that you don't understand, and you are clearly asking for someone to educate you. This is where you should have started out. Instead you started out pasting an ignorant opinion on a topic you knew nothing about.

I'm happy to educate you on the subject. The CWB controls enough of the supply of wheat that it can influence prices. It does this primarily for the benefit of CWB farmers, but non-CWB farmers plainly benefit too. This plainly benefits wheat farmers at the expense of wheat consumers.
benefit

Ontario's wheat producers represent only a tiny fraction of the total supply of wheat, and are basically price takers--they have to accept whatever price the market is offering, and do not have enough of a supply to be able to influence pricing. On the other hand, CWB's ability to regulate the supply of wheat allows it to influence the supply side of the market, driving up prices by restricting supply when necessary.

It is not uncommon to find the price of grain in the USA greater than what the CWB can pay. The farmer wishes to obtain this higher price but the stranglehold monopoly of the CWB prevents him from selling to the USA. The farmers in Eastern Canada have full access to this market and accordingly a competitive advantage.

I know this because I grew up on a farm. What are your credentials?

 

[fuji]

Relic, I highly recommend you take an introductory course on economics before we continue this discussion.

You seem to be trying to argue that a monopolistic supplier holds prices down. I was tempted to insult your intelligence, but then I realized that would be unfair--not everyone in our society has the luxury of a highschool education, and so it may be you simply haven't been exposed to these concepts before. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[JohnLarue]

It is not uncommon to find the price of grain in the USA greater than what the CWB can pay. The farmer wishes to obtain this higher price but the stranglehold monopoly of the CWB prevents him from selling to the USA. The farmers in Eastern Canada have full access to this market and accordingly a competitive advantage.

I know this because I grew up on a farm. What are your credentials?

Fuji is a self proclaimed expert on any subject
Just ask him.

He also moonlights as an immoral, self-centered, narcissistic ass
I have him on permanent ignore so I d not have to read his self-congratulatory ego boasting posts

 

[K Douglas]

Can we now get rid of the milk and egg marketing boards..............the prices for these products are fucking ridiculous!

 

[fuji]

[SUP][/SUP]

the prices for these products are fucking ridiculous!

Farmers don't think so!

 

[K Douglas]

[SUP][/SUP]

Farmers don't think so!

And that makes it ok to gauge consumers?

 

[ogibowt]

Can we now get rid of the milk and egg marketing boards..............the prices for these products are fucking ridiculous![/QUOTE

i buy my 3 bag 2% milk at nofrills for 4.39....i dont think thats fucking ridicoulos , unless without the milk board the price would be 3.29?....please enlighten us with your guess...

 

[fuji]

And that makes it ok to gauge consumers?

That depends on your policy objective. For example, you may think it is a national security priority to have a viable domestic food supply, for the same reason why the military often insists on a domestic supplier for ammunition and small arms purchases, despite the savings that could be had internationally. Currently foreign companies and governments do NOT have the ability to choke off our supply of food, other than via direct military action. The higher prices obviously help farmers at the expense of consumers and in pure economic terms it's plainly less efficient to create an artificial monopoly, but it does guarantee a reliable domestic food supply. The political/security advantages in having a domestic food supply may or may not be more important to you than outright economic efficiency.

The Americans are unlikely to attack us militarily, but in the past they have shown a willingness to launch trade wars against us. A trade war takes on a nastier tone when it actually results in starvation. Right now we are secure against such a threat--we would lose access to luxury foods in a worst case scenario, but we would retain the ability to feed our population based on domestic sources alone. Is that important to you? Is it worth the extra cost?

In any case we can agree that Relic was wrong in his assertion that these marketing boards hurt farmers.

 

[JohnLarue]

Can we now get rid of the milk and egg marketing boards..............the prices for these products are fucking ridiculous![/QUOTE

i buy my 3 bag 2% milk at nofrills for 4.39....i dont think thats fucking ridicoulos , unless without the milk board the price would be 3.29?....please enlighten us with your guess...

My guess is the 3.29 is probably close what you pay in the States after the exchange rate.
So goes for eggs and bread

A dollar here and a dollar there adds up , especially for a family with growing kids
But as some view it, as long as we make sure the farmers make a predictable profit then the average Canadian Family should be Happy to pay in excess of what the market will bear. ??????

Until some sets up a marketing board for my occupation to ensure I make a predictable profit, then I do not understand why any industry should be subsidized .
This is a out-dated system that has outlived its usefulness

 

[Relic]

Relic, I highly recommend you take an introductory course on economics before we continue this discussion.

You seem to be trying to argue that a monopolistic supplier holds prices down. I was tempted to insult your intelligence, but then I realized that would be unfair--not everyone in our society has the luxury of a highschool education, and so it may be you simply haven't been exposed to these concepts before. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

You seem to be stuck on the concept that the CWB has some sort of monopoly on the sale of wheat. I am going to try to explain this one last time in very simplistic terms, that even a Liberal like you can comprehend. Pay close attention.

Lets say that China wants a few containers of wheat. Are they forced to buy the wheat from the CWB? Of course not, they can buy wheat from thousands of brokers around the world. They buy the wheat from the broker that gives them the best price, and often it is not the CWB. So we have established that the CWB does not have a monopoly on the wheat supply. They further don't always have the best price. Are you still with me?

Now lets say that the farmer has a bin full of wheat which he wants to sell. Like most farmers he is very aware of the market and knows that a USA broker is willing to pay a higher price than the CWB. Like I mentioned before is not unusual at all that the USA market offers a higher price than the CWB.

The farmer would like to sell his wheat to the USA and get a higher price, but the CWB monopoly will not allow this to happen!!! By law the farmer is forced to sell his wheat to the CWB for a lower price!!!

I am not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.

 

[fuji]

The CWB sells enough wheat that it can and does influence pricing. Its existence rises the price of wheat for Canadian farmers, whether they belong to the board or not. That's a fact whether you like it or not.

Your "let's say" anecdotes are a lot of horse shit. According to you there are US buyers out there who prefer to buy wheat at a higher price than they could buy from the CWB. Explain how that could be. Especially on this context--the US is a net exporter of wheat, and is not a significant buyer of wheat on the world market. There is not enough demand for wheat imports from the US for there to be a net benefit to Canadian farmers from trading outside the wheat board. Random isolated examples? Sure. Random isolated things happen. But by and large the overwhelming majority of Canadian farmers will get a better price for their wheat selling through the CWB.

What you are saying is this: "Even though the overwhelming majority of farmers are better off under the CWB, it should be scrapped because there are a few tiny, insignificant cases of isolated farmers who might have gotten a higher price without it."

That is pants on head stupid.

 

[Relic]

The CWB sells enough wheat that it can and does influence pricing. Its existence rises the price of wheat for Canadian farmers, whether they belong to the board or not. That's a fact whether you like it or not.

Your "let's say" anecdotes are a lot of horse shit. According to you there are US buyers out there who prefer to buy wheat at a higher price than they could buy from the CWB. Explain how that could be. Especially on this context--the US is a net exporter of wheat, and is not a significant buyer of wheat on the world market. There is not enough demand for wheat imports from the US for there to be a net benefit to Canadian farmers from trading outside the wheat board. Random isolated examples? Sure. Random isolated things happen. But by and large the overwhelming majority of Canadian farmers will get a better price for their wheat selling through the CWB.

What you are saying is this: "Even though the overwhelming majority of farmers are better off under the CWB, it should be scrapped because there are a few tiny, insignificant cases of isolated farmers who might have gotten a higher price without it."

That is pants on head stupid.

The world demand for wheat is what sets the market, certainly not a single player in Canada. Please supply me with data which supports your point. My data comes from a father that has tracked the grain market for over 40 years. But of course you know better.

 

[wigglee]

Can we now get rid of the milk and egg marketing boards..............the prices for these products are fucking ridiculous!

i gladly pay 4 bucks for a dozen extra large free range eggs. Compare that to a packaged processed frankenfood and there is no contest. Milk? I don't even drink it...........just organic rice milk at 4.49 for 2 litres.

 

[fuji]

Relic, you don't have data. You have opinion. You don't even have a viable understanding of economics. The CWB represents around 20% of the world export market for wheat, it does meaningfully and significantly influence prices. If the CWB scales back its production, world prices go up. If it increases production, world prices go down. It is very significant in the world market.

 

[Relic]

Relic, you don't have data. You have opinion. You don't even have a viable understanding of economics. The CWB represents around 20% of the world export market for wheat, it does meaningfully and significantly influence prices. If the CWB scales back its production, world prices go up. If it increases production, world prices go down. It is very significant in the world market.

Fuji I just received a PM from a long term member (thank you). He let me know that you are well known on the board for weighing in on threads in which you are absolutely clueless. He advised me that you are in the top 3 of least liked members on the board. He further advised me to simply ignore you which is exactly what I am going to do.

 

[cye]

I thought you were going to ignore him.