The Egyptian coup plotters go full thug

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...-canadian-of-suspected-terrorist-involvement/

Not really any pretenses any more, after removing the democratically elected president by violence, putting all meaningful political opposition in jail, beating up anybody who disagreed with their views, shutting down all opposition media and newspapers, shooting or arresting anyone who engaged in public protest, arresting anyone who challenged the government and then engaging in mass killing political prisoners, setting up transparently rigged "elections", the coup plotters now have gone full thug: 20 journalists are now on trial for supporting "terrorism", now so loosely defined as to mean writing stories with what they claim was a pro-Moris bias, or perhaps, just not biased enough in favour of the government. Specifically, the journalists have been charged with "influencing the public opinion" (yes, really) and running stories that made the state look bad. That's a crime in Egypt now apparently.

CAIRO — Egypt said 20 journalists, including four foreigners, working for Al-Jazeera will face trial on charges of joining or aiding a terrorist group and endangering national security — an escalation that raised fears of a crackdown on freedom of the press.

It was the first time authorities have put journalists on trial on terror-related charges, suggesting they are expanding their heavy-handed crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood since the military’s ouster of President Mohammed Morsi on July 3.

The full list of charges and names of defendants has not been issued, but they are known to include three men working for Al-Jazeera English — acting bureau chief Mohammed Fahmy, a Canadian-Egyptian, award-winning correspondent Peter Greste of Australia and producer Baher Mohamed, an Egyptian. They were arrested Dec. 29.

The charges are based on the government’s designation last month of the Brotherhood as a terrorist organization.

Authorities have long depicted the Qatar-based Al-Jazeera network as biased toward Mr. Morsi and the Brotherhood. But police largely targeted its Arabic service and its Egyptian affiliate, which remained one of the few TV stations to provide a platform for the Brotherhood after the government crackdown.

While journalists have been detained before, the decision to refer cases to trial is unprecedented, experts said.

Al-Jazeera denies bias and has demanded the release of its reporters, whose arrest sparked an outcry from rights groups and journalist advocacy organizations.

The prosecutor’s office said Wednesday 16 Egyptians in the case are accused of joining a terrorist group, while an Australian, a Dutch citizen and two Britons were accused of helping to promote false news benefiting the terrorist group.

The 20 journalists allegedly set up a media centre for the Muslim Brotherhood in two suites in a luxury hotel.

The statement said the defendants “manipulated pictures” to create “unreal scenes to give the impression to the outside world that there is a civil war that threatens to bring down the state.” They also broadcast scenes to aid “the terrorist group in achieving its goals and influencing the public opinion.

Mr. Fahmy’s brother, Adel, said the family had given evidence to prosecutors showing Mohammed Fahmy was not paid by the Muslim Brotherhood and did not adhere to its conservative lifestyle.

He said his brother has been kept in a high-security prison with Islamists and terror suspects.

“This is a cooked case and they are trying to make it bigger than what it is,” Adel Fahmy said.

Another relative said Mohammed Fahmy’s condition has sharply deteriorated in the past week. Fahmy has been denied food from outside, books and forced to sleep on the floor without a blanket. He has not been allowed out of his cell to exercise and has no concept of time.


- - -

Prior to working at Al Jazeera English, Fahmy worked at CNN and the New York Times. Greste has worked for CNN and for the BBC. They are both respected journalists, neither of which live the sort of conservative lifestyle associated with islamists. In fact, they appear to have been doing nothing other than reporting on the turmoil in Egypt, showing images from the street the Generals didn't like people seeing, and giving airtime to the Muslim Brotherhood contrary to the wishes of the Generals. In other words, doing their jobs properly as journalists, and nothing more.
 

Lovehobby

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Sep 25, 2013
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You can have Egypt. It will take the wisdom of Soloman to run that country as a democracy.

You have about 45% who want western style democracy liberated women etc and about 55% who want a fundamentalist Sharia based Islamic regime. And back the Mo Bros . The army backs the first group. Both would support a coup before allowing the other to govern.

Religion fuck it. Right up there as the second root of all evil.
 

MattRoxx

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Nov 13, 2011
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I get around.
Egypt is on its way to becoming like Syria. Morsi was bad, the current military leadership is bad...the situation is going to get a lot worse before it can improve.
 

onthebottom

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If you've not seen The Square you should, documentary by the woman who did Control Room, a friend of a friend of mine.

They did a distribution deal with Netflix so you can stream it for free - well done from the ground up.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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Egypt is on its way to becoming like Syria. Morsi was bad, the current military leadership is bad...the situation is going to get a lot worse before it can improve.
Morsi represented democracy, and while I agree with him on almost nothing, he stood for a system capable of change and growth. Had he been replaced at the ballot box rather than at gunpoint, Egypt would now have a clear path to the future. As it stands, Egypt now makes Belarus look like a model democracy.

The best solution still today is to restore Morsi to office, jail the coup plotters on charges of treason, and try and elect somebody better next time out, in a free and fair election.
 

Lovehobby

Banned
Sep 25, 2013
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Egypt is on its way to becoming like Syria. Morsi was bad, the current military leadership is bad...the situation is going to get a lot worse before it can improve.
The so called good group that is composed of what we might call everything fro Red Tories to moderate democratic socialists composes about 35-40% of the vote.
 

SkyRider

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Mar 31, 2009
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(Rob Ford was also democratically elected and yet he is no longer the de facto mayor.) Morsi had many faults. No respect for women and minority rights were a couple of his (and MB) faults.
 

gryfin

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Aug 30, 2001
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http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...-canadian-of-suspected-terrorist-involvement/

Not really any pretenses any more, after removing the democratically elected president by violence, putting all meaningful political opposition in jail, beating up anybody who disagreed with their views, shutting down all opposition media and newspapers, shooting or arresting anyone who engaged in public protest, arresting anyone who challenged the government and then engaging in mass killing political prisoners, setting up transparently rigged "elections", the coup plotters now have gone full thug: 20 journalists are now on trial for supporting "terrorism", now so loosely defined as to mean writing stories with what they claim was a pro-Moris bias, or perhaps, just not biased enough in favour of the government. Specifically, the journalists have been charged with "influencing the public opinion" (yes, really) and running stories that made the state look bad. That's a crime in Egypt now apparently.

CAIRO — Egypt said 20 journalists, including four foreigners, working for Al-Jazeera will face trial on charges of joining or aiding a terrorist group and endangering national security — an escalation that raised fears of a crackdown on freedom of the press.

It was the first time authorities have put journalists on trial on terror-related charges, suggesting they are expanding their heavy-handed crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood since the military’s ouster of President Mohammed Morsi on July 3.

The full list of charges and names of defendants has not been issued, but they are known to include three men working for Al-Jazeera English — acting bureau chief Mohammed Fahmy, a Canadian-Egyptian, award-winning correspondent Peter Greste of Australia and producer Baher Mohamed, an Egyptian. They were arrested Dec. 29.

The charges are based on the government’s designation last month of the Brotherhood as a terrorist organization.

Authorities have long depicted the Qatar-based Al-Jazeera network as biased toward Mr. Morsi and the Brotherhood. But police largely targeted its Arabic service and its Egyptian affiliate, which remained one of the few TV stations to provide a platform for the Brotherhood after the government crackdown.

While journalists have been detained before, the decision to refer cases to trial is unprecedented, experts said.

Al-Jazeera denies bias and has demanded the release of its reporters, whose arrest sparked an outcry from rights groups and journalist advocacy organizations.

The prosecutor’s office said Wednesday 16 Egyptians in the case are accused of joining a terrorist group, while an Australian, a Dutch citizen and two Britons were accused of helping to promote false news benefiting the terrorist group.

The 20 journalists allegedly set up a media centre for the Muslim Brotherhood in two suites in a luxury hotel.

The statement said the defendants “manipulated pictures” to create “unreal scenes to give the impression to the outside world that there is a civil war that threatens to bring down the state.” They also broadcast scenes to aid “the terrorist group in achieving its goals and influencing the public opinion.

Mr. Fahmy’s brother, Adel, said the family had given evidence to prosecutors showing Mohammed Fahmy was not paid by the Muslim Brotherhood and did not adhere to its conservative lifestyle.

He said his brother has been kept in a high-security prison with Islamists and terror suspects.

“This is a cooked case and they are trying to make it bigger than what it is,” Adel Fahmy said.

Another relative said Mohammed Fahmy’s condition has sharply deteriorated in the past week. Fahmy has been denied food from outside, books and forced to sleep on the floor without a blanket. He has not been allowed out of his cell to exercise and has no concept of time.


- - -

Prior to working at Al Jazeera English, Fahmy worked at CNN and the New York Times. Greste has worked for CNN and for the BBC. They are both respected journalists, neither of which live the sort of conservative lifestyle associated with islamists. In fact, they appear to have been doing nothing other than reporting on the turmoil in Egypt, showing images from the street the Generals didn't like people seeing, and giving airtime to the Muslim Brotherhood contrary to the wishes of the Generals. In other words, doing their jobs properly as journalists, and nothing more.
Sounds just like the Israeli rationalizations when they murdered journalists in Gaza.
 

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
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Sounds just like the Israeli rationalizations when they murdered journalists in Gaza.
LOL. I was wondering how long it would take you to tie this completely unrelated story into Israel. 8 posts. Not bad.

You are a hilariously funny, quite sad and pathetic clown getting more desperate by the thread and post. But always good for a mid-day laugh. Keep up the good work.
 

fuji

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(Rob Ford was also democratically elected and yet he is no longer the de facto mayor.) Morsi had many faults. No respect for women and minority rights were a couple of his (and MB) faults.
Sure, but the democratic ststem was more important than any man or any policy. Establish democracy and as it matures and deepens those issues will eventually be resolved.

How can they be resolved now? Under the dictatorship there is no freedom of the press, and no way to get there. Under Morsi, he had many objectionable policies, but there was a solution available in future elections.

The Egyptian people had no experience with democracy and they elected a non ideal candidate. I believe that their vote would have become more sophisticated and more pragmatic with experience.

Surely the religious majority would remain committed to their religion, but they might also begin to bring a certain pragmatism over time.

They deserved the opportunity to grow as a democracy.
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Personally I think the issue was the Constitution. It was not one that allowed for freedom and rights for all in the long run. Until one is written that removes any vestige of religious doctrine it won't work over there. It won't matter who gets elected if Sharia elements are placed in it.

As much as we can say the MB was democratically elected so was Hamas. Look how well that is going.

As long as the military continues to not be under civilian control as well this will continue.
 

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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Personally I think the issue was the Constitution. It was not one that allowed for freedom and rights for all in the long run. Until one is written that removes any vestige of religious doctrine it won't work over there. It won't matter who gets elected if Sharia elements are placed in it.

As much as we can say the MB was democratically elected so was Hamas. Look how well that is going.

As long as the military continues to not be under civilian control as well this will continue.
And freedoms and rights for all are being upheld now? There were much greater rights and freedoms under Morsi.

The original constitution enshrined democratic processes which, long run, have a means of addressing any other issues. Also, it is a fact that a majority of Egyptians think Islam is important and has a place in informing law. They are not trying to create Canada, they are trying to create a democracy in Egypt. It won't be the same as ours and you and I might not want to live there.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Worth mentioning that 98% supported the constitution in the recent referendum. Turn out was only 39% but still much better in turnout and support that Morsi's did (64% support - 33% turnout).
 

fuji

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Worth mentioning that 98% supported the constitution in the recent referendum. Turn out was only 39% but still much better in turnout and support that Morsi's did (64% support - 33% turnout).
Saddam used to win by similar majorities in Iraqi elections I think you are smart enough to know what that number is.
 

Lovehobby

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Even still. Even though the Mo Bros could have made a fight of it and lost, the one who expects to lose these things usually boycotts to save face.
 

fuji

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Even still. Even though the Mo Bros could have made a fight of it and lost, the one who expects to lose these things usually boycotts to save face.
Even in a boycott nobody gets 98 percent.

Even though all the opposition parties were shut down, even though media were prevented from coming out against it, even though people opposed to it were beaten up at the polls, and prevented getting to the polls, the only way to get a number like that is to rig it.

There isn't any semblance of democracy left there, Egypt has gone full thug.

And no the "Mo Bros" could not have made a fight of it, they were declared illegal, their leaders jailed, their supporters murdered and beaten up, their media outlets shuttered at gunpoint. When foreign media tried to air their views, foreign journalists were arrested and charged with trying to influence the public. Publicly protesting against it landed thousands upon thousands in jail without charges.

Belarus has fairer elections.
 

Aardvark154

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It is important to remember (as has been mentioned in previous threads) that popularly elected and democracy are not necessarily synonymous.
 

K Douglas

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Morsi represented democracy, and while I agree with him on almost nothing, he stood for a system capable of change and growth. Had he been replaced at the ballot box rather than at gunpoint, Egypt would now have a clear path to the future. As it stands, Egypt now makes Belarus look like a model democracy.

The best solution still today is to restore Morsi to office, jail the coup plotters on charges of treason, and try and elect somebody better next time out, in a free and fair election.
Morsi did not represent democratic values fuji, who are you trying to kid. He tried to pull a Chavez on the Egyptian people. Much like many places in the world, the citizenry are polarized as to the future direction of the country. Its going to get worse before it gets better, that much I can say.
 

basketcase

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Saddam used to win by similar majorities in Iraqi elections I think you are smart enough to know what that number is.
Really? I remember lots of international reports about voting irregularities during Morsi's referendum. What basis do you have for your claims during this one?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Even still. Even though the Mo Bros could have made a fight of it and lost, the one who expects to lose these things usually boycotts to save face.
So that's why Hamas and Fatah have both refused to have elections? Also nice that you see boycotts purely as saving face.
 
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