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The Effect of the Wonderful World of Unfettered Capitalistic Greed on the Housing Market

mrk_2

Member
Apr 12, 2004
44
59
18
If you understood how real-estate works you would see that short term vision means nothing...it's the long term that counts.

Explains why you live in a tent and blame investors rather than blaming yourself.

Just because someone has made investments, has taken risks and has made good decisions to end up owning property, doesn't make them a bad person.

Don't be a whiny communist.
Why are you always going on about communism, Skoob? Do you feel somehow at risk? How is it you know the OP lives in a tent, or are you neighbours?

As far as your understanding of real-estate, you may actually be wearing blinders. I don't profess to be the expert that you think you are. However, I have bought and sold more land than I suspect you have. I have bought land and built more properties, both commercial and residential than I suspect you have. I have built and bought and sold more buildings than I suspect you have. Through all of that, the one thing that might summarize how real-estate works is that what is required is a willing buyer and a willing seller, period. If you speculate when buying in the hope that the property will appreciate over the longer term, that is a very good and mostly proven to be correct idea (if one can afford to wait long enough). That is, however, just a small part of how real-estate works. You could say instead, buy low and sell high and nobody could argue with that.

You however, seem to be the kind of person that might say, "I will make it up on volume", ie. buy a product at $1 and sell for $0.50 and make it up on volume. :LOL:
 

Skoob

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2022
4,595
2,163
113
Sorry Skoob, but you have out done yourself with your depth and extent of sarcasm. It says more about you than you think it does, and none of it is good!
As they say, love me or hate me, as long as you get my name right...which you did.
Thanks
 

Skoob

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2022
4,595
2,163
113
Why are you always going on about communism, Skoob? Do you feel somehow at risk? How is it you know the OP lives in a tent, or are you neighbours?

As far as your understanding of real-estate, you may actually be wearing blinders. I don't profess to be the expert that you think you are. However, I have bought and sold more land than I suspect you have. I have bought land and built more properties, both commercial and residential than I suspect you have. I have built and bought and sold more buildings than I suspect you have. Through all of that, the one thing that might summarize how real-estate works is that what is required is a willing buyer and a willing seller, period. If you speculate when buying in the hope that the property will appreciate over the longer term, that is a very good and mostly proven to be correct idea (if one can afford to wait long enough). That is, however, just a small part of how real-estate works. You could say instead, buy low and sell high and nobody could argue with that.

You however, seem to be the kind of person that might say, "I will make it up on volume", ie. buy a product at $1 and sell for $0.50 and make it up on volume. :LOL:
For someone who attacks me for making assumptions about others, you just made assumptions about me. Funny how hypocrisy works eh?

btw Communism is a risk to everyone. I'm not going to educate you on why but I will say that it creeps in slowly. Anbarandy's usual stance on topics is a glowing example of the mentality that could light a spark. I would rather extinguish that than fan the flames of socialism disguised as Communism.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,557
19,275
113

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
12,212
5,570
113
Are you suggesting that developers build stuff for people that will buy it?

Stop the presses! Forget about the Theory of Relativity, what you just outlined is revolutionary thinking!!! Wow!

Imagine someone investing in something that will make money based on demand.

You...you are going places kiddo!

Can you also share your knowledge about how that thing they call "fire" works? And then if you have a couple extra minutes, that round thing they call a "wheel".

Sorry if that takes you away from your deep-thinking time.

Yes, you are making his point!

The developers built what the market demands. And the highest market demand was from foreign investors and REITS/investor groups, who bought these housing units as capital preservation/gain type investments, not as housing. No intention to rent them. Just a place to park or place money for foreign owners who see Canadian real estate as the safest bet to park some of their estate. Or investment management companies who seek individuals to invest in Real Estate backed investment funds, earning a healthy commission and ongoing management fees in the process.

And while that seems all fine and dandy, it has created two undesirable outcomes.

1. A shortage of housing units available to occupy because the investment was always intended as a capital preservation or long term (or short term flip) capital investment. These foreign and investment fund buyers never even thought of rental income. They didn't think of nor were diissuaded from or about troublesome tenants, Professionally managed rentals have very low rates of default as the tenants are screened and there are procedures in place to immediately bring specific actions into play whenever rent is not paid or other problems arise. As opposed to mom and pop investors who try to afford an investment they can only afford IF their tenants pay on time and tey have NO other problems. And when they do, they have no idea how the LTB works and tend to believe the sob stories or threats of professiional fraudster tenants.

So these "housing units" may as well be investments in pork belly futures for all they have to do with housing.

2. This gold rush has created a separate economy and currency within our country. The money you earn from work and buy groceries, car, clothes etc with and the housing economy. Where it is no longer possible for a family earning $100,000k to save enough after tax to save for a down payment, then qualify for or afford a million dollar home. So unless you got in earlier, have parents to lend or give you sufficient cash for a down payment, or an inheritance, the dream of buying your own home by a decent , normal job is not a reality.

3. Therefore, those people are stuck in the rental housing market. Increased demand for a pretty much finite (see capital investors above) number of rental housing units has led to increasing rents.


My rough, not fully fleshed out, solution would be to ban ownership of Canadian property from non-resident foreign nationals. There are plenty of countries that you have to be a citizen of to own real property. After all, we are selling off the land of our country to foreign interests.

Toronto's Vacant Home tax is a good start. As are Federal an evolving system of taxing capital gains on foregn nationals and withholding taxes at the lawyer level. Provincial tax disincentives like those in BC to try to get a hold on the tidal wave of foerign investment that has caused housing to run completely out of control and resulted in very low rental opportunities.

Heck skoob, your idol Trump purpose built his gold plated gaudy condos specifically to attract wealthy Russians to launder and park the money they stole from their fellow Russian countrymen. This sites could have been used to create smaller, less expensive and attainable stable housing for his "base". Not saying anyone shouldn't invest and/or pay less tax within the laws etc ... but this is a root cause of our housing crisis.

Another solution would be to allow single family homes of a certain size to have basement apartments or small in-law suites as a matter of right, and over riding the existing zoning by laws prohibiting them.

Just some thoughts, not cut and dried.
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
12,212
5,570
113
Nothing is "free" silly...that's just a socialist term for "someone else is paying for it with their money"... 56% tax in Denmark...and you think education is free? Lol!



View attachment 334981

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1455011/highest-statutory-income-tax-rates-europe/#:~:text=Denmark is the European country,taxation band of 55.9 percent.

Besides those being for thos with the highest incomes, those higher taxed countries also have the highest life satisfaction/happiness scores. And fewest homeless.

Our total income tax rate in Ontario is over 50%. We are just not managing our tax system and money well. Too many committees and tribal politics for one.

Having had a long term GF who was a "Medical Coder" I know some about the US health care system and the legalized insurance billing scams and real life application of having "the best" health care plan it is no paradise.

If you are very, very wealthy you can get top notch health care lickety-split!

But if you are just some poor self-employed hard working schlub contractor making $100k or a family of 2 parents and two kids working multiple jobs to make ends meet, a your mom or dada having a minor heart attack can bankrupt your family in an afternoon.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,557
19,275
113
Yes, you are making his point!

The developers built what the market demands. And the highest market demand was from foreign investors and REITS/investor groups, who bought these housing units as capital preservation/gain type investments, not as housing. No intention to rent them. Just a place to park or place money for foreign owners who see Canadian real estate as the safest bet to park some of their estate. Or investment management companies who seek individuals to invest in Real Estate backed investment funds, earning a healthy commission and ongoing management fees in the process.

And while that seems all fine and dandy, it has created two undesirable outcomes.

1. A shortage of housing units available to occupy because the investment was always intended as a capital preservation or long term (or short term flip) capital investment. These foreign and investment fund buyers never even thought of rental income. They didn't think of nor were diissuaded from or about troublesome tenants, Professionally managed rentals have very low rates of default as the tenants are screened and there are procedures in place to immediately bring specific actions into play whenever rent is not paid or other problems arise. As opposed to mom and pop investors who try to afford an investment they can only afford IF their tenants pay on time and tey have NO other problems. And when they do, they have no idea how the LTB works and tend to believe the sob stories or threats of professiional fraudster tenants.

So these "housing units" may as well be investments in pork belly futures for all they have to do with housing.

2. This gold rush has created a separate economy and currency within our country. The money you earn from work and buy groceries, car, clothes etc with and the housing economy. Where it is no longer possible for a family earning $100,000k to save enough after tax to save for a down payment, then qualify for or afford a million dollar home. So unless you got in earlier, have parents to lend or give you sufficient cash for a down payment, or an inheritance, the dream of buying your own home by a decent , normal job is not a reality.

3. Therefore, those people are stuck in the rental housing market. Increased demand for a pretty much finite (see capital investors above) number of rental housing units has led to increasing rents.


My rough, not fully fleshed out, solution would be to ban ownership of Canadian property from non-resident foreign nationals. There are plenty of countries that you have to be a citizen of to own real property. After all, we are selling off the land of our country to foreign interests.

Toronto's Vacant Home tax is a good start. As are Federal an evolving system of taxing capital gains on foregn nationals and withholding taxes at the lawyer level. Provincial tax disincentives like those in BC to try to get a hold on the tidal wave of foerign investment that has caused housing to run completely out of control and resulted in very low rental opportunities.

Heck skoob, your idol Trump purpose built his gold plated gaudy condos specifically to attract wealthy Russians to launder and park the money they stole from their fellow Russian countrymen. This sites could have been used to create smaller, less expensive and attainable stable housing for his "base". Not saying anyone shouldn't invest and/or pay less tax within the laws etc ... but this is a root cause of our housing crisis.

Another solution would be to allow single family homes of a certain size to have basement apartments or small in-law suites as a matter of right, and over riding the existing zoning by laws prohibiting them.

Just some thoughts, not cut and dried.
Toronto also legalized laneway housing which helps.
DoFo is against quadraplexes, which would be a smart way for development.
He also killed an affordable housing project on behalf of his developer donors so they could make more cash.

Preventing corporate ownership of single family homes and rental units would smart.
Trying to figure out how to slow down profiteering off of housing is needed, but that's tricky.
The capital gains tax increases are a good start, people making a living off of housing should pay full taxes on their profits.


 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
6,899
2,364
113
Simple fact is that Canada is neither densely populated nor densely developed for industrial/commercial/agricultural purposes. To have a shortage of development land in Canada is a testament to our own bureaucracy, not to any true scarcity. Our shortage has been artificially created through government policy. Building purpose-built permanent ghettos would just crystallize the problem, rather than resolve it.

Let builders build to meet the demand, in all strata of the market, and there will be supply all the way down the real estate ladder, prices will be moderated, and more people will be able to share in the Canadian dream.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
84,557
19,275
113
Simple fact is that Canada is neither densely populated nor densely developed for industrial/commercial/agricultural purposes. To have a shortage of development land in Canada is a testament to our own bureaucracy, not to any true scarcity. Our shortage has been artificially created through government policy. Building purpose-built permanent ghettos would just crystallize the problem, rather than resolve it.

Let builders build to meet the demand, in all strata of the market, and there will be supply all the way down the real estate ladder, prices will be moderated, and more people will be able to share in the Canadian dream.
That would just make everything worse.
They would just build whatever gives them the highest profit, and it won't be rentals or smaller and cheaper homes.

 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,241
2,838
113
Simple fact is that Canada is neither densely populated nor densely developed for industrial/commercial/agricultural purposes. To have a shortage of development land in Canada is a testament to our own bureaucracy, not to any true scarcity. Our shortage has been artificially created through government policy. Building purpose-built permanent ghettos would just crystallize the problem, rather than resolve it.

Let builders build to meet the demand, in all strata of the market, and there will be supply all the way down the real estate ladder, prices will be moderated, and more people will be able to share in the Canadian dream.
Yesh.

Bud's beloved nostalgist neo-housing-ladder theory of housing today after decades of developer/investor/speculator monetization abuse, piracy and unrestrained greed.


ladder.PNG
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
12,212
5,570
113
Simple fact is that Canada is neither densely populated nor densely developed for industrial/commercial/agricultural purposes. To have a shortage of development land in Canada is a testament to our own bureaucracy, not to any true scarcity. Our shortage has been artificially created through government policy. Building purpose-built permanent ghettos would just crystallize the problem, rather than resolve it.

Let builders build to meet the demand, in all strata of the market, and there will be supply all the way down the real estate ladder, prices will be moderated, and more people will be able to share in the Canadian dream.
Yes, we all have heard that Canada is sparsely populated. And the population is concentrated in places where people want to live. Houses are cheap in Kirkland Lake. zEven Windsor and Sault Ste Marie. But there is low demand.

Infrastructure, more specifically waste water treatment and sewer and water, are limiting factors in the urban and suburban areas. Especially in the Greenbelt areas and GTA/Golden Horseshoe suburbs. If you are saying that the bureaucracy is limited builders from building housing that will overwhelm and overflow the sewage treatment plants. Or build family housing where there are no schools or nearby schools are already over populated sure. But the development form "raw" land to whatever residential zoning is not that onerous. Examining the proposal, suggesting modifications to the site plan, density etc and signing agreements doesn't take an unreasonable time period for professional developers. It also takes lots of professionals to design the building(S), systems, roads, sewers, gas, and other infrastructure and that takes time. It's a bit more complicated than the container home builders will have you believe!

It's a more complex issue than most people realize and you make it out to be,
 
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