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Sweden's prostitution laws.... what is the point?

Don

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Aug 23, 2001
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Could someone explain the point of Sweden's prostitution laws? Basically it is legal to sell but illegal to buy. I think I understand how it came to be (Sweden has a strong feminist history and because the same feminists viewed prostitution as degrading to women, they don't want it legal but they also don't want to punish women for selling so they just punish men who want to buy).

But what is the point of allowing people to sell something that is illegal to buy?
 

afterhours

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What I need explained is how the western men allowed themselves to be fucked to such extent
 

xix

Time Zone Traveller
Jul 27, 2002
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La la land
But what is the point of allowing people to sell something that is illegal to buy?
Maybe the point is for the woman to buy the service from the men. Here is a few scenarios.

Woman buy/pay for man. It gives them more power as a feminst.

Woman buy/pay for woman. It gives them an excuse or reason to try something different instead of waiting for man.

It forces man to learn how to speak LOVE. A man there has to learn how to speak to woman then seduce her. OF course he be paying for sex and that would make him a long John. Meaning his been try to buy sex for a few weeks by different means.

But if both sides are selling, no one is breaking the law.

I am just pulling your leg people.
 

afterhours

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afterhours

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Yes I get this. My question is how can you be able to legally sell something that is illegal to buy? Is there any value in it?
you understand that if a user today is caught buying marijuana from a dealer, a user will walk and a dealer will be charged? It's not a foreign concept
 

alexmst

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Sweden is just trying to keep the hobby illegal while at the same time pandering to women who say they want control over their bodies. So the govt says "fine, you can do what you want with your bodies" then turns around and says men are not allowed to buy sex. End of the day same basic situation as making the hobby illegal.

From Wiki:

In 2008 Kajsa Wahlberg, of the human trafficking unit at Sweden's national police board, conceded that accurate statistics are hard to obtain, but estimated that the number of prostitutes in Sweden dropped 40% from 2,500 in 1998 to 1,500 in 2003. However by 2010 she had conceded that the policy (buying being illegal) had failed, and that issues around prostitution were increasing as noted in the media which carried out surveys on the street.

According to the Swedish police, 400 to 600 foreign women are brought to Sweden each year to be prostitutes. In Finland, which is only half the size of Sweden, that number is between 10,000 and 15,000 women.

Jonas Trolle, an inspector with the Stockholm police from a police unit dedicated to combating the sex trade, stated that: "We only have between 105 and 130 women -- both on the Internet and on the street -- active (in prostitution) in the city of Stockholm today." This compares to about 8,000 to 11,000 prostitutes active in Amsterdam, Netherlands.

Monitoring and evaluation were delegated to the Socialstyrelsen, which has produced three reports (2000, 2004, 2007). These acknowledged the difficulties in evaluating the situation and provided no hard evidence that the law had in any way achieved its objectives. The 2007 report states that street prostitution is on the increase after an initial decline and that customers and sex workers now use the internet and mobile phone to communicate. There is no evidence that the law has reduced violence, rather there is evidence it has increased. There has been a 40% increase over the last ten years in reported sexual offences. Judges and senior police commanders have been caught purchasing sex, and most recently Sven Otto Littorin, the Government Minister of Labour (Littoringate).

In 2008 the number of police reports was 1,500 with 86 convictions in 2006. A Supreme court ruling has prevented the optional jail term being applied, and parliamentarians are calling for a minimum one year jail term. To date nobody has been imprisoned. A number of sources suggest that the law is not being enforced very strictly.

----------

BTW, a quick search showed dozens of hot SP girls advertising online in the city of Stockholm with rates of Can$ 300 hour, 240 h/h. As with most of western Europe, many SPs are not local from the country in question, but are imported EE girls. Still hot girls, just not local talent. If I got to France I want a born and bred French SP, or in Switerland a Swiss SP, or in Sweden a Swedish SP, in Holland a Dutch SP, or in England an English SP. It is harder to do over there than here I find. Of those 11,000 SPs they quote as working in Amsterdam, the percentage that are actually born and bred Dutch girls is not that high, esp in the red light district.
 

Don

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Aug 23, 2001
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Toronto
you understand that if a user today is caught buying marijuana from a dealer, a user will walk and a dealer will be charged? It's not a foreign concept
Using marijuana is not illegal and not all sellers of marijuana can be charged. They are targeting people not authorized to deal. I admit I don't know the law that well but this is what I have heard.

But back to Sweden, buying sex is illegal. No exceptions.
 

alexmst

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But back to Sweden, buying sex is illegal. No exceptions.
Yes, but as I posted: "A number of sources suggest that the law is not being enforced very strictly".

Incalls are illegal in Toronto - are we all in jail?
 

afterhours

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Using marijuana is not illegal and not all sellers of marijuana can be charged. They are targeting people not authorized to deal. I admit I don't know the law that well but this is what I have heard.

But back to Sweden, buying sex is illegal. No exceptions.
Why exceptions are more important to you than the main principle? A seller may well be charged while the buyer would likely not be charged. Selling marijuana is illegal.

I wonder whether the swedes make exception for married people by the way. Can a husband fuck wife for a pair of shoes?
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Are you guys complaining because she doesn't get charged? Aw gee! As if it was better back when she did get charged and the john walked? It would seem fairer to charge both, but it's hardly the case that unfair laws suddenly appeared in modern Sweden. Most places, most ages we guys got the cleaner end of the stick, and happily let the guys who passed those laws get away with their injustice.

"I think the lady doth protest too much".
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Originally Posted by afterhours View Post
... Can a husband fuck wife for a pair of shoes?
BINGO! There is the real reason! Maybe the men should appeal the law to Sweden's Competition Bureau?
I'm sorry, but you guys are talking in a code I don't get. Or maybe about some centuries-old version of husbands and wives, is that it? Do you imagine people still live that way? Or that if she's the major income earner that he doesn't occasionally suck up with lucre and not love in mind? There's simply no way anyone but the folks involved can sort that out, whether Husband and Wife or John and SP. The only business the state has between any of them is to ensure their transactions are fair and honest.

The Swedes may still not have it right yet, but they're a long way ahead of us.
 

Don

Active member
Aug 23, 2001
6,289
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Toronto
Are you guys complaining because she doesn't get charged?
NO, I don't want anyone charged.

And in regards to your comment that the Swedes are a long way ahead of us? I don't think so. Prostitution is mostly legal here, for both buyer and seller.
 

whobee

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From Wiki:

In 2008 Kajsa Wahlberg, of the human trafficking unit at Sweden's national police board, conceded that accurate statistics are hard to obtain, but estimated that the number of prostitutes in Sweden dropped 40% from 2,500 in 1998 to 1,500 in 2003. However by 2010 she had conceded that the policy (buying being illegal) had failed, and that issues around prostitution were increasing as noted in the media which carried out surveys on the street.

According to the Swedish police, 400 to 600 foreign women are brought to Sweden each year to be prostitutes. In Finland, which is only half the size of Sweden, that number is between 10,000 and 15,000 women.

Jonas Trolle, an inspector with the Stockholm police from a police unit dedicated to combating the sex trade, stated that: "We only have between 105 and 130 women -- both on the Internet and on the street -- active (in prostitution) in the city of Stockholm today." This compares to about 8,000 to 11,000 prostitutes active in Amsterdam, Netherlands.

Monitoring and evaluation were delegated to the Socialstyrelsen, which has produced three reports (2000, 2004, 2007). These acknowledged the difficulties in evaluating the situation and provided no hard evidence that the law had in any way achieved its objectives. The 2007 report states that street prostitution is on the increase after an initial decline and that customers and sex workers now use the internet and mobile phone to communicate. There is no evidence that the law has reduced violence, rather there is evidence it has increased. There has been a 40% increase over the last ten years in reported sexual offences. Judges and senior police commanders have been caught purchasing sex, and most recently Sven Otto Littorin, the Government Minister of Labour (Littoringate).

In 2008 the number of police reports was 1,500 with 86 convictions in 2006. A Supreme court ruling has prevented the optional jail term being applied, and parliamentarians are calling for a minimum one year jail term. To date nobody has been imprisoned. A number of sources suggest that the law is not being enforced very strictly.
You can look at those numbers in a different way. On one hand you can say the numbers look higher so prostitution is increasing, this plan isn't working. On the other hand with more policing you are going to catch more people so of course there will be an increase in the number of people arrested. The more money you throw at a problem the more problem you are going to find. To the interpretation of violence it could be a combination of more resources and the fact that the providers are now feeling they can report violence that is occurring and are doing so in greater numbers.

Not saying the factual parts are incorrect, just saying people should think about them and rely on their own interpretations.
 

whobee

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And in regards to your comment that the Swedes are a long way ahead of us? I don't think so. Prostitution is mostly legal here, for both buyer and seller.
To the Swedes there is a link between sexual commerce and issues like trafficking. So they attempt to make a law that protects the providers and remove commercial sex from their country. It's a pretty good law when you keep their goal in mind. They have zero interest in the buyer, we are part of the problem.
 

alexmst

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Dec 27, 2004
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Sweden: hot girls, crappy cars, lots of stupid laws.

Solution: Swedish girls tour globally, we see them over here, we don't drive Swedish cars, and we stay out of the jurisdiction of their socialist f*cked up laws that they love to pass there (this being just one of many).

Swedish girls yes, Sweden no. :D
 

afterhours

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To the Swedes there is a link between sexual commerce and issues like trafficking. So they attempt to make a law that protects the providers and remove commercial sex from their country. It's a pretty good law when you keep their goal in mind. They have zero interest in the buyer, we are part of the problem.
What they should be having zero interest in is trafficking

If a citizen of a rich country feels like fucking a slave from a poor country, why the hell rich country's government is protecting a foreigner and not a citizen?
 
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