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Supreme Court of Canada will release its decision on the Bedford, Lebovitch and Scott

DigitallyYours

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Oct 31, 2010
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The only government response I could find so far.

In a statement, Justice Minister Peter MacKay said the government would take the time to decide how to address "this very complex matter."


"We are reviewing the decision and are exploring all possible options to ensure the criminal law continues to address the significant harms that flow from prostitution to communities, those engaged in prostitution and vulnerable persons," his statement said.
MacKay also said there are "a number of other Criminal Code provisions" in place to protect sex-trade workers "and to address the negative effects prostitution has on communities."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-strikes-down-canada-s-prostitution-laws-1.2471572
 

freedom3

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Mar 7, 2004
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We are in the endgame now.

Anyone who wants to see escorts should do it within the next year. After that, it will be a memory. Harper has no choice. He must follow the nordic model. It is the only way to keep his base happy: it is seen as making prostitution illegal while not harming escorts. (The reality that it does harm escorts won't matter to his base.)

The die has been cast.

The great Allan Young has ushered in the nordic model. But hey, his name is in the paper so that is all that matters to him.
 

Perry Mason

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2001
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The buy vs. sell analysis is far too simplistic.
Surely that is what I said and was intended?! :biggrin1:

As to the right to sell being fundamentally different from the right to buy... would you not agree that the two are interdependent?

Perry
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
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I echo the concerns of many that "jail-the-johns" might be Canada's answer. I think this is entirely against the spirit of the ruling, and could very well fall under concerns (s7) that were already decided.

I would submit that jail-the-john laws would effectively negate the constitutional rights of sex workers who would lose a source of income. Any such anti-john legislation is clearly an indirect way to make what is legal, illegal.

(I'd love to discuss this with you one on one in 2014 darling, he he)
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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…the government is mostly concerned about exploitation and abuse. To criminalize prostitution itself, either for the women or men, would require a huge paradigm shift and the buy-in of so many different groups, I don't see how it would really be possible and certainly not within a year.
This government is mostly concerned about perpetuating itself in office. Criminalizing prostitution would undoubtedly appeal strongly to a large part of Harper's base of conservative and fundamentalist voters and election volunteers. They already handed the Conservative Party the parliamentary majority which is all they need to accomplish it. Would it win them new votes? Of course. The only arithmetic yet to be done in the backrooms is whether that will add more votes than they lose, as socially progressive free-thinkers and dissolute sensualists abandon the Conservatives over their righteous efforts at keeping hookers outta the streets.

Look at it another way, who will fight the next election on a party platform that promises to make prostitution legal once again?
 

GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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Benjamin Perrin's [former chief legal advisor in the PMO] editorial in the G&M 2 days ago probably sums up the PMO's positition.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/whatever-the-supreme-court-rules-its-time-to-end-prostitution-in-canada/article16022947/



I personally think that rocking the boat on prostitution was an enormous miscalculation and I doubt we will have much of an incall industry within 2 years time... of course, all contingent on the the next election.

We 'are the perpetrators responsible for the harms of prostitution'. What rubbish. Anyways, I hope you're doubt is wrong.
 

bluecolt

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2011
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I think deep down the conservatives would have preferred if the courts handled it themselves and didn't pass anything to them that way they could use the issue to rally their base and accuse activist judges of taking over law making again. The current government has tried to avoid social issues like prostitution, abortion, gay marriage, death penalty and so on that would excite its social conservative base but make them unpopular elsewhere so this one is going to be tough for them.

It would be interesting to see some new polls as to where Canadians are on this issue the last ones I saw showed people in favour of it, this government has been trying to be populist so polls could put them in a tough spot
I believe that you are right. The PC government already has a lot on its plate. This decision is a non-winner like abortion, gay marriage et al. I don't believe much will happen within a year. Passing a bill requires a lot of work, consultation, committee work and three votes.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,359
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We are in the endgame now.

Anyone who wants to see escorts should do it within the next year. After that, it will be a memory. Harper has no choice. He must follow the nordic model. It is the only way to keep his base happy: it is seen as making prostitution illegal while not harming escorts. (The reality that it does harm escorts won't matter to his base.)

The die has been cast.

The great Allan Young has ushered in the nordic model. But hey, his name is in the paper so that is all that matters to him.
I hope you're wrong but it doesn't look promising for the hobby.

(This may mean that you meet a lady for a coffee and bring them over to your place. What goes on between the two is personal.)
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
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The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union isn't *that* different. There are a right to liberty and security. They even have a freedom to choose an occupation and right to engage in work and freedom to conduct a business. You'd think those could be used to challenge a john law that you can't engage in an occupation where it is illegal to buy what is being sold.
I concur.

BTW, I thought I heard that they struck down laws against street soliciting. The talk show host and callers felt that still invites pimping, human trafficking and the employ of minors.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
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To me, the most surprising part of the judgement is that it was a unanimous decision.

I had expected that there would be at least one or two dissents.

The fact that it is unanimous and strongly grounded on The Charter will make it very difficult for Parliament to skate around The Charter in drafting new legislation.

The decision is even more "liberal" than I had prognosticated; even the pimping sections were struck down in order to clear the way for a comprehensive re-thinking of the whole subject... but more on that after I read the reasons in full.

As I said above, this is a very intelligent and unpoliticized Court that any civilized and progressive nation would be proud to have... unlike the heavily politicized Court in the USA.

Perry
Thank you counselor!
 

torboy

Active member
May 10, 2004
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yep, I agree there's nothing in this decision that prevents a law being written to criminalize the buying of sex. That would put massage parlours out of business, people would be scared to visit.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union isn't *that* different. There are a right to liberty and security. They even have a freedom to choose an occupation and right to engage in work and freedom to conduct a business. You'd think those could be used to challenge a john law that you can't engage in an occupation where it is illegal to buy what is being sold.
It took an insignificant local conviction, a stubborn and committed defendant who believed in her rights and a whole lot of support that had to be aroused and mustered as well as a whole lot of legal talent to get this decision. Not to mention the whole lot of time this took. Maybe there's just such a case being heard in some night court in Gotheburg right now.

Since you wondered.
 

TeasePlease

Cockasian Brother
Aug 3, 2010
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Surely that is what I said and was intended?! :biggrin1:

As to the right to sell being fundamentally different from the right to buy... would you not agree that the two are interdependent?

Perry
I would agree that they are interdependent from an economic/market perspective. I disagree that they enjoy the same constitutional principles (and therefore protections).

I would submit that jail-the-john laws would effectively negate the constitutional rights of sex workers who would lose a source of income.
That is an interesting argument, but I don't think it would fly. So sexworkers would have to make an application in a derivative action?
 

Perry Mason

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Aug 20, 2001
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I would agree that they are interdependent from an economic/market perspective. I disagree that they enjoy the same constitutional principles (and therefore protections).
Well, then, if you and I were sitting in judgment on these questions, one of us would be with the majority and the other would be dissenting.

That is what makes "the law" so interesting... no? :confused:

Perry
 

massman

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2001
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I too worry that this will be the impetus to criminalize buying of sexual services. This, from a civil libertarian point of view is ridiculous in my view, the govt has no right to dictate under which circumstances and with whom someone has sex, unless there is violence coercion, trafficking etc. We already have laws to deal with this.
Nonetheless I will not be surprised if this govt goes this way. Keep in mind the SCC decision was based on the fact that since prostitution is a LEGAL activity, that the current laws surrounding it were unconstitutional, because they marginalized and put at risk those who work in this LEGAL industry. Not, as ms Bedford claims, that we have the right to do what we want with whom we want in our private bedroom, I agree with her, but the courts have not used this as a basis for striking down the law.
It will be interesting, but I would not be surprised to see buying criminalized and I would doubt there will be many politicians arguing the civil libertarian point of view. Keeping mind the right doesn't want to alienate the bible thumpers and the left doesn't want to alienate the feminists who ardently belive that all prostitution = exploitation, no matter what the circumstances. I bet the Feds already have a bill ready to go.
Unless there is a massive push to inform the public about the really above board agencies / parlours who look after their escorts /mps, the smart well adjusted independent women who have made a conscious, non coercive choice to enter and profit from the business, and yes the clients, who are not knuckle dragging predators/ deviant monsters, rather nice average dudes who enjoy strings free consensual sex in the context of a mutually beneficial relationship. The problem is, because of the stigma, few of these people will stand up to be heard, and the few that are will be shouted down from all sides, moralist and feminist abolishionists alike. Have fun till then.
 

torboy

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May 10, 2004
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So why do new laws have to be enacted within one year? Why can't new laws be created after one year? What's the significance of this one year time line, I don't understand
 

massman

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Sep 8, 2001
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So why do new laws have to be enacted within one year? Why can't new laws be created after one year? What's the significance of this one year time line, I don't understand
Because the ruling says that the current laws stand for another year to give parliament a chance to make a new one, if so they wish. And you bet they do.
 

bubble pop

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May 1, 2012
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So why do new laws have to be enacted within one year? Why can't new laws be created after one year? What's the significance of this one year time line, I don't understand
The government doesn't -have- to do anything, but in one year the criminal code provisions dealing with prostitution are invalid. An election is looming. If you're Steven Harper, do you want to answer questions about why you couldn't handle this file?
 
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