I don't think Billionaire status is sole the result of hard work or being smarter. Things like luck and the disposition to take advantage of people/situations (ala Kevin O'Leary) is a much bigger rationale. A very abbreviated rationale but along those lines.
subsidized housing
- Thread starter red
- Start date
I haven't bothered to read much of this thread. I skimmed aq few replies and already my eyes were rolling at some of the stances taken. Bravo to those of you who understand the need. As with any system there will be those who abuse it. This does not reflect the majority though nor should it deter society from making these units available.
I'm in a wheelchair. I live in a THCHC building. Not all the units are subsidized but mine is. In my case without that subsidy I'd be living with family or in some kind of facility. I am on Provincial Disability assistance. This program is not great and does NOT provide as much as many seem to think. However my subsidy is part of it. I'd love to work but....if I landed an entry level job tomorrow, my rent would go up to market value and...any repairs to my chair, (which are currently covered) would fall to me. So you can see that unless you have the education and experience to land a higher pay rate, it would be very hard. Many disabled people find themselves stuck...wanting to work but...knowing they'd loose more than gain and...not have enough to cover everything.
I realize this thread was about subsidized housing in a more general sense. However rather than think about the bad cases we hear of, remember how many people in many different situations these units help.
I'm in a wheelchair. I live in a THCHC building. Not all the units are subsidized but mine is. In my case without that subsidy I'd be living with family or in some kind of facility. I am on Provincial Disability assistance. This program is not great and does NOT provide as much as many seem to think. However my subsidy is part of it. I'd love to work but....if I landed an entry level job tomorrow, my rent would go up to market value and...any repairs to my chair, (which are currently covered) would fall to me. So you can see that unless you have the education and experience to land a higher pay rate, it would be very hard. Many disabled people find themselves stuck...wanting to work but...knowing they'd loose more than gain and...not have enough to cover everything.
I realize this thread was about subsidized housing in a more general sense. However rather than think about the bad cases we hear of, remember how many people in many different situations these units help.
No doubt there are many factors on the road to becoming a successful multi-millionaire or billionaire but smarts and hard work are major factors. Many (most?) of the people on Forbes list of richest 400 Americans are 1st generation self-made wealth creators. People like Gates, Buffet, Ellison, Jobs (RIP), the Google boys, Zuckerman, Dell are all self-made billionaires and, except for Zuckerman, they made many other people rich as well. I think MocroSoft made more people millionaires than any company in the history of mankind. Yes Virginia, it is possible to go from Parkdale to the Bridle Path by the time you hit your 40's.
Sure you are right, I just think I define hard work differntly than you do. I would define what you are listing above is ingenuity rather than hard work. What I also see is a list of people who were also lucky to do what they did at the time they did it. Look at a guy like Karl Marx (I'm somewhat biased as I enjoy his work). He died lonely and broke, but he worked very hard at his craft and would probably be very well-off if he had written it in a different time and place.
Canada Works? In Ontario it is closer to 600, it was 520 back in the mid 90's. You also get GST, HST and a portion of your rent back as a property tax rebate so ad about 75 bucks a month for that.A single person is entitled to a monthly rate from Canada Works of $500 and change! How on earth do you expect anyone to live on that???
I see I utterly wasted my time posting the stuff below.
330 for splitting a 2 bedroom. About 180 for food [I can do 120 and healthier], leaves a nice cushion for other things.
If I moved in with him I could easily do 650 if you again toss in the GST, HST and "property tax" rebate. TV shows via DVDs at the library, virgin mobile phone 100 bucks a year, free internet at the library.
But again, you obviously ignored my response last time for whatever reason so I don't know why I bother again.
Poor Karl, he reminds me of painters whose works increase greatly in value after they are dead. Well, at least their heirs became rich.
Didn't Karl inspire the Soviet Union and the PRC before it turned capitalist?
Again Rockslinger we will have to agree to disagree.
The easiest example for me is the slave trade. Many fortunes were made on the slave trade, the southern US economy was predicated on this very low cost labour. Many great British fortunes were made from the triangle of trade between UK, Africa and the US. I think with the benefit of hindsight we all agree it was a reprehensible business practice, but it did not go away organically. It took brave parliamentarians to fight for decades to legislate an end in the UK, it took a cival war in the US.
There are many more examples such as child labour that required a strong central government to force change on capital. This is not to say that capitalism is bad, not at all, rather that unfettered capitalism is not in any position to advance human rights--that's the job of us humans.
Agree that it is a fine balancing act. Not sure that any country has found the magic mix. I know that some people point to Norway but they have North Sea oil and a small population. Although not perfect, I thought the Singapore and Hong Kong models are good examples. No slaves in Hong Kong, just a lot of hard workers. BTW: For all the sins of the Brits, the Hong Kong Chinese cried at their leaving in 1997.
I got news for you. It was $520 in 2006 also! I know cuz that's what I rec'd before i became disabled! And I live alone and have no relatives to live with so I was fucked and still am.......and not in a good way.
Sorry you're in the chair and that surely presents a pile of problems that I can't even dream of, however, at the end of day, your attitude sucks and is clearly one of entitlement. (Your arguement that if you got an entry level job that the cost of repairing your chair would fall to you. Well, that's how the world works.)
I don't think his attitude sucks and I don't think he feels entitled. He is clearly laying out the reality of the situation, which most people who make a good living can not even comprehend. I pretty much agree with his take on the situation.
Wow...Where in what I wrote did I show a poor attitude? I said I'd love to work. However, my life comes with factors not of my choosing or making. I NEED to live where I do, because there is service within the building to assist me. I do nt have the option to simply move somewhere cheaper. Also, my wheelchair costs $1,000 minimum each time it breaks.
What I said, was not about being lazy. It was about the system being poorly set up. Many physically disabled would love to work but..when they look at what they'd make...it's not enough to cover the extra's that come with our conditions. These aren't luxuries that can be dispensed of. If the government introduced a graduated system where, if you start out with some beginner job, they'd still cover meds, special needs, and the equip. That would be progressive.
I fully agree if I walk into a $60,K to 80 K a year job, then I'm on my own. However I think if you are well below that and are trying they should still cover these unique costs. Life in a wheelchair comes with many costs...it's fair to argue that unless we start doing very well, we may still need some assistance.
Plus...out of this whole thread, you hone in on me? Get a life.
What I said, was not about being lazy. It was about the system being poorly set up. Many physically disabled would love to work but..when they look at what they'd make...it's not enough to cover the extra's that come with our conditions. These aren't luxuries that can be dispensed of. If the government introduced a graduated system where, if you start out with some beginner job, they'd still cover meds, special needs, and the equip. That would be progressive.
I fully agree if I walk into a $60,K to 80 K a year job, then I'm on my own. However I think if you are well below that and are trying they should still cover these unique costs. Life in a wheelchair comes with many costs...it's fair to argue that unless we start doing very well, we may still need some assistance.
Plus...out of this whole thread, you hone in on me? Get a life.
http://www.wellesleyinstitute.com/health-care/freezing-welfare-the-wrong-decision-at-the-wrong-time/
People on social assistance or who rely on the Ontario Child Benefit are already struggling to survive. Single people on OW receive $599 per month and single people on ODSP, who usually have higher living costs, receive only $1,064 per month. A freeze in increases to these already meagre rates is effectively a cut, and this cut will be felt by those who are already amongst the most vulnerable in Ontario.
Those numbers don't include the various tax rebates, health card, change of life payments and any other goodies you can scam.
Split a two bedroom, move outside of Toronto and other high rent area. Ditch the cars, cigs, booze, drugs and whores and you will do fine.
Get on disability and you are laughing. Carless a grand a month would do me fine living by myself. Or you can move to Newfoundland, they pay more and don't actually expect you to even look for work.
If you insist on your "right" to live in the downtown core and have a fancy life, I have no sympathy for you.
I can't believe how hard "they" make it to find out how much the dole pays. It shouldn't be a state secret.
ODSP only reaches that much if you're getting the max. shelter benefit which has to be reflected in the amount of your rent. Also...if you are claiming every other benefit they offer. I don't go for all the allowances I could. They are designed to cover things I need routinely based on my disability. I still don't apply for those. I try and manage and leave that money available to others.
Actually, people helping people is how the world works, if it is a world worth living in. I think you are way off base on this. At the end of the day, any one of us might need help, including you.
Last edited:
Sorry but you're incorrect. I was on Ontario Works before and now I'm on ODSP and your numbers are wrong and I'm not laughing! I can't make ends meet and by the end of each month I don't have enough $$ to buy groceries. I don't drink or smoke or whore around....haven't seen an SP in years. However I do have one old car since i don't live in the city and am already in Vaughan, and it takes me to all my doc and other medical appts. I constantly have. I worked all my adult life until i became disabled and therefore I contributed into the system. McGunity took away the Ontario lump sum tax refunds and now instead it's paid out in monthly installments that started in July.
