Student punished for thought crimes for ‘All Lives Matter’ tweet

[canada-man]

The University of Houston’s student government vice president must undergo mandatory diversity training for tweeting “All Lives Matter.”

SGA Vice President Rohini Sethi made the comments on social media after the shooting in Dallas last month in which five officers were killed. The full tweet said “Forget #BlackLivesMatter; more like AllLivesMatter.” It has since been deleted.

The diversity training is one of several sanctions Sethi has been handed down by the student government president for her tweet, a punishment in response to the uproar among many students who accused the tweet of insensitivity and divisiveness. Many students, including the Black Student Union, had called for her resignation or impeachment.

Sethi’s five sanctions include “a 50-day suspension beginning Aug. 1, mandatory attendance of the Libra Project diversity workshop, mandatory attendance of three cultural events per month, a reflection letter and a public presentation in the Senate Meeting on Sep. 28,” the Daily Cougar campus newspaper reports.

At that September meeting, Sethi is expected to detail what the diversity experiences have taught her about “cultural issues,” SGA President Shane Smith said in a statement announcing the sanctions.

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/28326/

 

[frankcastle]

Extreme reaction and if I was in charge I would have let it slide.

But being part of a university, company, group etc there are certain expectations especially when using social media.

This guy is suffering for the crimes of people who have said far worse which has now placed limits on freedom of speech. But I find people hide behind the freedom of speech things too often.

And at the end of the day all he got was sensitivity training. If he was expelled then I would be upset but this...... meh. Some people lose jobs over tweets, posts etc so good lesson for people to learn. You can't go online and post whatever you want.

Again I don't think his post was that bad but posting on a tradgedy has its risks.

I think it's a bit extreme to call this a case of thought police. I find that term gets thrown around a lot when someone posts something and others take exception to it.

The larger piece to this is that you as an adult should know better about posting things in social media. You should know that 140 characters limits your ability to communicate complex ideas. You should know that people may misinterpret what you are saying so be very clear when dealing with the death of cops/racial issue.

If this was striclyt about what was said then yes I suppose that would be thought poilice. But there is also "when" this person said it too close to a tradgedy, there is also "who" this person is..... as a student leader you are under more scrutiny. Also, "how" she said it see above about social media and the limits of tweets.

 

[fuji]

To be clear, "suspension" here does not mean suspension from the school. But you knew that, right?

She's being suspended from her political role in student government and not from the school.

Funny that your post didn't make that clear...

 

[K Douglas]

Gotta love that our institutes of higher education are such bastions of free speech and debate. Modern liberalism at work.

 

[SexB]

Said it before, I'm going to say it again, I don't think that Copy and Paste Man has ever set foot on a university or college campus and bases his opinion, which he lets others dictate to him, on what he reads on Breitbart and Fox News.

That and he jumps at SJW boogeymen.

 

[rhuarc29]

There's no way in hell I'd acquiesce to those ridiculous sanctions! Might as well resign. Sucks for her though that she'll miss out on being part of the school government.

It's abhorrent that they did that to her.

 

[Nesbot]

Gotta love that our institutes of higher education are such bastions of free speech and debate. Modern liberalism at work.

Why should they be? You seem like one of the most right leaning guys here. Don't corporations and businesses like Universities have the right to dictate conduct of their members? Or does that only apply to some segments of the population, like right wing crazies.

 

[Aardvark154]

To be clear, "suspension" here does not mean suspension from the school. But you knew that, right?

She's being suspended from her political role in student government and not from the school.

But what the Hell is the University administration doing giving the student government Carte blanche to behave as a tinpot dictators!

 

[fuji]

But what the Hell is the University administration doing giving the student government Carte blanche to behave as a tinpot dictators!

The University administration has nothing to do with who represents the student government. The student in question continues to be a student in full standing, just not speaking on behalf of the student organization that is offended by her comment.

 

[frankcastle]

Universities are PRIVATE institutions. You pay to go and there is a code of conduct you must adhere to.

Here's Harvard's code of conduct


Conduct Within the Community


"A fundamental goal of the College is to foster an environment in which its members may live and work productively together, making use of the rich resources of the University, in individual and collective pursuit of academic excellence, extracurricular accomplishment, and personal challenge. In the words of the Resolution on Rights and Responsibilities adopted by the Faculty of Arts and Sciences on April 14, 1970, “By accepting membership in the University, an individual joins a community ideally characterized by free expression, free inquiry, intellectual honesty, respect for the dignity of others, and openness to constructive change.”

For this goal to be achieved, the community must be a tolerant and supportive one, characterized by civility and consideration for others. Therefore the standards and expectations of this community are high, as much so in the quality of interpersonal relationships as they are in academic performance. "



Yes there is the parts about being free this and free that...... but there's also the part about being tolerant, supportive, considerate, respect for the dignity of others, openness etc.

I realize that each university has it's own set of rules but it would surprise me if all schools didn't have some sort of rule along this line.

The key here is even though you are not offended if someone else might reasonably offended then you are in the wrong.

You might think a frat party where people dress in black face is just a costume party but to others that might be considered deeply racist.

And again I personally wasn't offended but I could see how people closer to BLM would be.

 

[Aardvark154]

The University administration has nothing to do with who represents the student government. The student in question continues to be a student in full standing, just not speaking on behalf of the student organization that is offended by her comment.

You seem to be ignoring the point that the university's administration has the ultimate power. They could announce tomorrow that there was no more student government, it had lost all university privileges and has to vacate their university quarters.

Now would the student government decide to act like a government in exile? Likely so, but most governments in exile fade away in a relatively short time.

 

[K Douglas]

Why should they be? You seem like one of the most right leaning guys here. Don't corporations and businesses like Universities have the right to dictate conduct of their members? Or does that only apply to some segments of the population, like right wing crazies.

Yes they do but only to a certain extent. They have to face anti discrimination laws should they overstep their boundaries. And in this case if a company were to force their employee to take 'sensitivity training' as punishment for them expressing a widely held political opinion, you can bet dollars to donuts they would be facing a lawsuit.
The other difference here is that the University of Houston is a public institution. Therefore, First Amendment rights are guaranteed. This student can claim that her constitutional right to free speech was infringed upon.

 

[rhuarc29]

Yes there is the parts about being free this and free that...... but there's also the part about being tolerant, supportive, considerate, respect for the dignity of others, openness etc.

I realize that each university has it's own set of rules but it would surprise me if all schools didn't have some sort of rule along this line.

The key here is even though you are not offended if someone else might reasonably offended then you are in the wrong.

You're saying that it's more reasonable to be offended because a student said "all lives matter" than offended because a student says "black lives matter"?

The individual in question was attempting to be inclusive, not divisive. Even if you conclude she was insensitive, the punishment is certainly far too extreme for the crime.

 

[frankcastle]

You're saying that it's more reasonable to be offended because a student said "all lives matter" than offended because a student says "black lives matter"?

The individual in question was attempting to be inclusive, not divisive. Even if you conclude she was insensitive, the punishment is certainly far too extreme for the crime.

I already stated that I didn't agree with the punishment.

The problem with saying all lives matter is that some people can feel that you are dismissing the problems specific to blacks. I mean as a white person does their past include being hosed down in protests and having dogs sicked on them, lynching being a real risk, fear of police brutality, difficulty finding a job based soley on having a black name?

If a woman was talking about pain of child birth would you say to them "we all feel pain?"

I am not saying it is more reasonable.

LEt me say it again in another way.

Even if you are not offended, it does not mean someone else will not be offended.

 

[fuji]

Yes they do but only to a certain extent. They have to face anti discrimination laws should they overstep their boundaries. And in this case if a company were to force their employee to take 'sensitivity training' as punishment for them expressing a widely held political opinion, you can bet dollars to donuts they would be facing a lawsuit.
The other difference here is that the University of Houston is a public institution. Therefore, First Amendment rights are guaranteed. This student can claim that her constitutional right to free speech was infringed upon.

What constitutional right does she have to be a spokesperson for the student government?

 

[K Douglas]

What constitutional right does she have to be a spokesperson for the student government?

She pays tuition and is a student at a public university. That guarantees her right to free speech whether she is part of student government or not.

 

[frankcastle]

She pays tuition and is a student at a public university. That guarantees her right to free speech whether she is part of student government or not.

Not sure I would call Universities public..... you have to apply, pay tuition, AND adhere to their code of conduct.

Edit: it would seem that universities sit in the middle and follow both public and private protocols.

That said I am pretty sure their code of conduct supercedes your freedom of speech.

In fact I think there was a recent story of a prof being fired for their comments. Freedom of speech did not protect them.

There is a list of US universities that have rules that clearly impinge of freedom of speech.

 

[fuji]

She pays tuition and is a student at a public university. That guarantees her right to free speech whether she is part of student government or not.

No one has taken her right to speak away from her.

 

[buttercup]

Here's Harvard's code of conduct
". . In the words of the Resolution on Rights and Responsibilities . . “By accepting membership in the University, an individual joins a community ideally characterized by free expression, free inquiry, intellectual honesty, respect for the dignity of others, and openness to constructive change.” For this goal to be achieved, the community must be a tolerant and supportive one, characterized by civility and consideration for others. Therefore the standards and expectations of this community are high, as much so in the quality of interpersonal relationships as they are in academic performance."

There are two ideals here.

One is the ideal of a community characterized by free expression, free inquiry, intellectual honesty, respect for dignity of others, and openness to constructive change.

The other is the ideal of the community being a tolerant and supportive one, characterized by civility and consideration for others.

You can have one or you can have the other. But you cannot have both.

Every university says it dedicates itself to promoting new ideas. But the fact is that most new ideas of any merit and originality end up treading on someone's toes. Think of the professors who are offended by every new thought or idea, seeing it as a criticism of themselves? And what about the student committee members who see inflicting punishment as a celebration of their own power to affect people?

Ordering others to hold back from criticizing/ parodying/ poking fun at/ people who might be offended, is only a small step back from Lenin:
Why should freedom of speech and freedom of the press be allowed? Why should a government which is doing what it believes to be right allow itself to be criticized? It would not allow opposition by lethal weapons. Ideas are much more fatal things than guns. Why should any man be allowed to buy a printing press and disseminate pernicious opinions calculated to embarrass the government?

"Calculated embarrassment" is required in a free society.

The key here is even though you are not offended if someone else might reasonably offended then you are in the wrong.

Gotta disagree with this. There is no limit to the depths to which people will go, to make themselves offended. You cannot possibly kowtow to other people's standards as to what they might find offensive -- even if you wanted to.

The only standard I (any of us) can actually use, as to what is offensive, is what I myself find offensive -- and then pay heed to Dr Seuss: Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

In fact, Dr S's single sentence sounds like a better code of conduct for a University to adopt, than the Harvard nonsense.

 

[fuji]

In fact, Dr S's single sentence sounds like a better code of conduct for a University to adopt, than the Harvard nonsense.

The University isn't involved in this. It's the student government that has suspended her from her position as student vice president.

She has not lost any standing or been sanctioned in any way by the university.

This is about whether the SG is required to have a spokesperson who says things they disagree with. She can freely go on saying those things and being a student, but she doesn't have a right to be their spokesperson, particularly not when they disagree with her statements.