Straight Pride Parade

[Grimnul]

You say LGBTQIA+ people "identify as attack helicopters". You claim trans women SP's are not allowed to be SP's because you don't think they are women.

Oh and what about that other thread using offensive terms like "shemale" or "trannies" as well as people in there denying the experiences of trans people? What about people in this thread believing that straight cis white men have the right to invade LGBTQIA+ spaces, thus invalidating the decades of oppression that queer people had to endure through, all because someone cried with his cis-hetero white tears? What about all the numerous times posters vehemently refused to call queer people based on their gender identity (i.e. smallcock) all because it's too hard for them.

"Supportive of LGBTQ rights" my big fucking ass.

Where did I say trans women couldn’t be SPs? I did say they shouldn’t claim to be biological women in their ads and I stand by that. That’s not because they don’t have the right to identify as women, it’s because they’re selling a product and that would be false advertising. Imagine you go to Canadian Tire to buy a screwdriver, you get home, open the box, and there’s a hammer inside. Nothing wrong with the hammer, but it’s not what you wanted or intended to buy. All I’m saying is products should be labelled correctly. It’s also a potential safety hazard for trans SPs, because there are people who are transphobic and may react violently if the woman they booked turns out to have a penis.

This is all common sense.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

it's perfectly OK for you to have an overly misogynistic handle name

How is that misogynistic if/when a girl gives consent to be fucked doggystyle??

 

[itd131]

It's okay You'll never understand. You're cis-gender and heterosexual, the most privileged individual in society, and misgendering a queer person won't ever get you threatened or killed.

Hence why the LGBTQIA+ spaces exist. To keep ourselves safe from people like you.

You are quite safe around me. I really don't care how people define their sexual orientation, etc. I see that as a personal choice that is no concern of mine. If you are suggesting that I would harm or mistreat someone in any way based on gender, sexual orientation, etc. you are completely wrong.

I will never understand until someone in your position explains your point of view. I would appreciate it if you would try.

I don't identify as cis-gender. I find that term makes assumptions about how to define sexual identity that are offensive and inaccurate. People who identify as LGBTQIA+ often apply that term these days without considering how offensive it is to those you use it to describe.

 

[Dutch Oven]

I've just read through this entire thread. Very emotional, sometimes humorous, and sometimes insightful. There's certainly no need to jump on top of a pile of bodies that's already fairly high, but I'd like to read the views of members on a couple of points that don't seem to have been discussed, or weren't addressed in any depth.

One, what, exactly, is with political "parades"? I understand why the participants organize them - they are a form of political demonstration and way of unifying (and identifying) people with like political views. However, I don't understand why the participants/organizers would think that those who watch/attend their parades are aligned with their politics, as opposed to: a) enjoying the avant garde theater, or b) looking for evidence to justify their contempt of the participants, c) trying to drum up business/votes from the participants, or d) just there because nothing better was on television that afternoon. In my view, the importance of such parades is grossly overrated. On that analysis, a "straight pride" parade would be equally as useless as a gay pride parade.

Two, as to "straight white people don't have to face discrimination", that would be largely true in Canada at the moment, and would be largely true for the LGBT community in Canada at the moment as well, but if you start redefining white as "Jewish" or "Armenian" or even "Protestant", and look back enough years, the argument falls apart. So what is the temporal window of discrimination within which a public demonstration (like a parade) is justified? 50 years? 10 years? Is the gay pride parade even about demanding legal rights any more, or is it now just the marquee event during an annual LGBT festival (which is really about enjoying the communion of people of sympathetic sexual orientations)? Kind of like the Stampede Parade of the LGBT festival?

 

[Grimnul]

How is that misogynistic if/when a girl gives consent to be fucked doggystyle??

I mean, can gays not have doggystyle sex? What about lesbians with strap-ons? Did Crimson just assume someone’s sexual orientation?

 

[itd131]

It's easy. Cis-gender means you identify as the gender you were born in, no different from how a white person defines as "white" or black person defines as "black."

All you need to do is to ask the person what gender they want to be referred as. It's not rocket science.

To me the difference is the concept that the two are separate. Can a person with fair (white) skin identify as black? I have a feeling (although I could be incorrect) that some would say that is a form of "cultural appropriation."

 

[doggystyle99]

but it's perfectly OK for you to have an overly misogynistic handle name.

You are out to lunch equating Doggystyle to misogyny

 

[oldjones]

How is that misogynistic if/when a girl gives consent to be fucked doggystyle??

Considering the context and the parties to the back and forth, isn't the real issue the handle shows an unjust, insultlng and probably harmful attitude to dogs?

Assuming willing and enthusiastic human partner's in the sexual congresses of yourself, the Mired and the dogged ones, I'd imagine everyone has indulged. But why would 'with women' be assumed?

Surely not through prejudice or stereotyping.

 

[Grimnul]

To me the difference is the concept that the two are separate. Can a person with fair (white) skin identify as black? I have a feeling (although I could be incorrect) that some would say that is a form of "cultural appropriation."

Also, what about the term “African-American”? It’s generally agreed to refer to black people, right? I have a friend who’s from South Africa, he’s a white Jew. Would it be inaccurate to refer to him as African-American?

 

[Grimnul]

Obviously not, but gender and race are different. There are people born male but identify as female, and vice versa. The same does not hold true to race.

Rachel Dolezal is white and identifies as black. There’s also another German lady who got surgery to appear black, even though she’s white.

 

[canada-man]

Obviously not, but gender and race are different. There are people born male but identify as female, and vice versa. The same does not hold true to race.

There are 6500 genetic differences between men and women. Bilogical Facts not feelings determined gender

 

[itd131]

Obviously not, but gender and race are different. There are people born male but identify as female, and vice versa.

I don't see how gender and race are different. If I am born with a particular shade of skin and a particular set of physical characteristics, how I feel internally seems irrelevant really to those basic physical realities. If I have white skin, I may feel black and identify with whatever that means to me, just like if I have a penis and balls, etc. I may feel like a woman and identify with whatever than means to me, but in the end I am still a white man. Why do you see it as reasonable for the separation of gender identify from physical characteristics, but not the separation of racial identity and skin colour?

 

[Grimnul]

I don't see how gender and race are different. If I am born with a particular shade of skin and a particular set of physical characteristics, how I feel internally seems irrelevant really to those basic physical realities. If I have white skin, I may feel black and identify with whatever that means to me, just like if I have a penis and balls, etc. I may feel like a woman and identify with whatever than means to me, but in the end I am still a white man. Why do you see it as reasonable for the separation of gender identify from physical characteristics, but not the separation of racial identity and skin colour?

It’s almost as if this is all nonsensical garbage and is only applied when convenient to his narrative...

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Yayyy! You win!

:thumb:

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I mean, can gays not have doggystyle sex? What about lesbians with strap-ons? Did Crimson just assume someone’s sexual orientation?

Yeah, by sheer definition Crimson's post was homophobic

 

[oldjones]

There are 6500 genetic differences between men and women. Bilogical Facts not feelings determined gender

Depending how you define 'gender'. Which not too long ago was a strictly grammatical term, used most often in certain foreign language studies. To refer to Males and Females the term was — and still is — 'sex' if you want to go by dictionaries, rather than fads and fashions.

Because the Sexual Revolution resulted in The Act becoming far more commonly a part of conversation, we got increasingly prissy. Just about the same time that same 'revolution' started to liberate a whole lot of other orientations and poreferences besides just male and female couplings.

So we looked around for a vaguer less provocative words and settled on that nice, old-fashioned academic term 'gender'. Because it could mean whatever we want it to mean, referring to people. Just like in grammar where there are commonlyy three genders: Neuter, feminine and masculine. And I was told, some languages have more.

What I suspect you were trying to say was that groups defined as men and as women can differ by as many as 6500 genetic factors, although any particular male-female pair may not possess or differ by all of them, and many of the 6500 may be detectable only by laboratory testing. Such genetic factors will determine physical traits like hormones and sexual organs, but not how any individual may appear, or choose to present or behave.

And even if you really onlywanted to boil it all down to penis or vagina, just like in grammar, there's now and then a real human that needs another category, no matter how rigid and tight the reactionaries try to make their definitions.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Thank you for the reply.

The issue I see is entitled heterosexual people giving this knee-jerk reaction to the LGBTQIA+ movement and thinking to themselves "hey why can't I get the share of the pie" despite them always consistently getting the whole piece of the pie throughout history. LGBTQIA+ pride exists because they are marginalized individuals and require a space for them to speak out against issues that affect them (i.e. violence, discrimination, homelessness), display lifestyles that are widely condemned by society (i.e. gay marriage), etc. A safe space allows them to be free from any discrimination or bigotry by the general public, as proven by how many of the homophobes and transphobes on this forum have said many disgraceful things about the LGBTQIA+ community.

I am opposed to heterosexual people joining the LGBTQIA+ spaces for the simple reason that they are not oppressed. Heterosexuals will never endure violence, bigotry, discrimination, abuse, murder, etc. the same way that LGBTQIA+ people endure through. Hence they do not need safe spaces. Allowing heterosexual people into LGBTQIA+ spaces is like allowing rich people to take food from food banks and leave nothing for the poor.

If they want to make "straight pride", okay whatever, I do not support it, but they have the freedom to do so. However I still think it's idiotic and asinine, and they should be prepared to face the consequences of having such an asinine group since they really wouldn't have any discrimination-related issues to talk about.

Can I ask, is the Gay Pride parade a LGBT "space". Should straight people stay away from it and refrain from commenting on it? Should the media refuse to cover it? Are you offended by all the corporations trying to make a buck on Pride Week?

 

[acutus]

I would like to see data on the incidence of AIDS infections in countries that do not support the Homosexual lifestyle.

A comparative analysis of that data could be helpful in finding a cure for AIDS.

 

[Dutch Oven]

you have never endured through the hardships that black people endured through.

I raised this in my earlier post. If we are talking about "peoples" as identifiable groups, many white "peoples" have experienced genocide, slavery and other atrocities. All you have to do is look back far enough. Doesn't "privilege" just point to which groups appear to be controlling a society at the moment?

 

[Dutch Oven]

There are many LGBTQIA+ spaces; it's just that the queer pride parade is a "space" that allows them to demonstrate their pride in front of other people. Straight people can watch but they are not allowed to attend or march in it, because they are not queer. Straight people do not need to demonstrate their pride because they are not marginalized.

Whether the media can cover it or whether the corporations can try to make a few bucks from it is another discussion. I am personally against corporations using marginalized groups as tokens for their own personal benefit.

I find the approach of diminishing discrimination by demonstrating our similarities (or the irrelevance of our differences) much more persuasive and effective than demanding the end to discrimination while at the same time insisting on exclusivity.