Speeding #1 Killer on Highways

[Promo]

Speed is no doubt a factor in vehicular deaths - simple physics covers that in the form of the kinetic energy formula: KE = (1/2) * m * v^2. The faster you go, the amount of available energy increases exponentially. However I am tired of people inferring correlation/causation incorrectly.

Speed, by itself as a variable, does not kill anyone, i.e. if it is the only factor differing between two drivers on a road, it doesn't necessarily mean the faster driver is instantly doomed to death.

................

- Plus the computer will actually know where the hell it's going and GET OVER to the correct lane well before it has to exit, as opposed to the stupid GTA bumpkins swerving 4 lanes hard right in 500m because they fucked up and don't want to take the next exit and double back because their time is more valuable than everyone else's safety.

Well written. It's a derivative of the valid "guns don't kill" debate.

I would further add:
1) it's speed DIFFERENTIAL that kills. If everyone is doing the same speed (assuming safe road and conditions), than most collisions would be minor. Therefore I have no problem with everyone doing 120-125 on the 407. It's the idiot that is doing 140+ and weaving between cars that I have a serious problem with.

2) Often it's not the speeding car that causes the issue, it's the incompetent driver that pulls in front of the speeder (or truck, etc) without properly checking approaching cars. I see idiots cutting off other cars ALL the time, it's epidemic - often within 1-2 car lengths, no signal, often break as they move into the new lane. UGH!!

3) The real danger on the roads are the aggressive weavers (including on city streets) and/or tailgaters. I realize that people divine left lane and many people don't follow the "common sense rules of the road", but I wish they would limit there aggressive actions to light flashing and if that doesn't work pass on the right when it's safe to do so, then speed away (just don't weave between cars).

 

[ravencroft]

Well written. It's a derivative of the valid "guns don't kill" debate.

I would further add:
1) it's speed DIFFERENTIAL that kills. If everyone is doing the same speed (assuming safe road and conditions), than most collisions would be minor. Therefore I have no problem with everyone doing 120-125 on the 407. It's the idiot that is doing 140+ and weaving between cars that I have a serious problem with.

2) Often it's not the speeding car that causes the issue, it's the incompetent driver that pulls in front of the speeder (or truck, etc) without properly checking approaching cars. I see idiots cutting off other cars ALL the time, it's epidemic - often within 1-2 car lengths, no signal, often break as they move into the new lane. UGH!!

3) The real danger on the roads are the aggressive weavers (including on city streets) and/or tailgaters. I realize that people divine left lane and many people don't follow the "common sense rules of the road", but I wish they would limit there aggressive actions to light flashing and if that doesn't work pass on the right when it's safe to do so, then speed away (just don't weave between cars).

All great points, thanks for that. I agree that aggressive weaving is NOT the solution to get somewhere faster: Ontario drivers are skittish enough as it is, and that sort of aggressive / sporadic motion just freaks them out more and will likely harm more than it helps.

And a note to the aggressive weavers/tailgaters: there are times where you just have to HONESTLY assess the traffic stream ahead of you, take a deep breath, and accept the fact that you're fucked for the next 20-60 min. It comes with the territory in a such a densely-populated and congested city. Save yourself the stress and the heart attack... and maybe, a life.

 

[sempel]

Well written. It's a derivative of the valid "guns don't kill" debate.

I would further add:
1) it's speed DIFFERENTIAL that kills. If everyone is doing the same speed (assuming safe road and conditions), than most collisions would be minor. Therefore I have no problem with everyone doing 120-125 on the 407. It's the idiot that is doing 140+ and weaving between cars that I have a serious problem with.

2) Often it's not the speeding car that causes the issue, it's the incompetent driver that pulls in front of the speeder (or truck, etc) without properly checking approaching cars. I see idiots cutting off other cars ALL the time, it's epidemic - often within 1-2 car lengths, no signal, often break as they move into the new lane. UGH!!

3) The real danger on the roads are the aggressive weavers (including on city streets) and/or tailgaters. I realize that people divine left lane and many people don't follow the "common sense rules of the road", but I wish they would limit there aggressive actions to light flashing and if that doesn't work pass on the right when it's safe to do so, then speed away (just don't weave between cars).

I would actually say #2 is the bigger danger. They are usually the cause of the accident versus an aggressive speeder. I'm not saying aggressive speeding and weaving is a good thing - for sure it can be dangerous if the spaces are tight and the swings in/out are very quick. But on a multi-lane road with space, a weaver doesn't pose much danger.

I have seen people doing 70 in the right lane that stay there when people are trying to merge onto the highway. In order to merge safely, you generally end up behind them at the same speed. Now, to get into the middle lane, you are either cutting off someone going at 100+ or making a quick swing in. But it all starts with the person going too slowly.

I don't think there's an upper limit on speed - again, it's differential. I have been on the QEW doing 140 in the middle lane and I'm being passed on both sides by people going 150+. I don't see any issue with the numerical value. Now, if I'm doing a 100 and being passed by people going 150, that's when problems can take place.

 

[Promo]

I hardly think checking your text mail while waiting at a stop light should be a $1,000 fine, a bunch of demerit points, and 3 days worth of your license taken away.

But whatuvah!!!!

Disagree and I support SirWankers points.

Shockingly-often I see drivers totally focused on their phone after the light has changed and they are oblivious to the fact they are blocking traffic ...... instead of 5 cars getting through the advanced green, only 1-2 get through. More congestion, more frustration, more road rage. I'm an efficiency guy in work and life and seeing this just makes me shake my head.

Even with last year's huge fine increases, It's still very common to see distracted drivers. Off topic, but it's time the police start to enforce too dark window tinting on cars.

I hate photo radar and red light cameras, but they are a tolerable solution to a meaningful problem, too bad there isn't an equivalent for distracted driving yet. Nissan has developed technology for monitoring a drivers eyes to verify the driver is looking at the road ahead or at the mirrors and will buzz if the driver is distracted for more that a few seconds (it apparently reliably detects when people are looking down at their phones). It would be interesting if the car could keep a log and if the driver got into and accident or was pulled over by the police for an infraction, allow the cop to look at the log for evidence purposes.

 

[Promo]

I don't think there's an upper limit on speed - again, it's differential. I have been on the QEW doing 140 in the middle lane and I'm being passed on both sides by people going 150+. I don't see any issue with the numerical value. Now, if I'm doing a 100 and being passed by people going 150, that's when problems can take place.

I totally get what you are saying and agree in theory ........ but the reality is, even if the road conditions were perfect, most people don't have either the skill, experience or reflexes to drive at 140km/hr+, about 70% (I'm guessing) of the cars don't have the brakes or stability to operate at those speeds and lastly, our roads suck due to potholes, poor slope grading, sand/rocks on the surface, etc. <-- anyone that drives into Hamilton on the 403 will know what I mean about terrible surface grading.

And to ravencroft's point, sometimes other drivers react poorly to an aggressive driver around them and could cause an accident.

BMWs are generally a superior road car, yet the number of times I've seen BMWs fishtail on a lane change (traveling too fast and over-correcting) or significantly understeer in a turn goes to show the lack of skill of the drivers. Add the (generally accepted) fact that BMW drivers rarely signal and tend to be aggressive, you have an accident waiting to happen. Not intending to pick on BMW drivers, many are good. if stereotyping, I believe Ranger Rover drivers the worst drivers on the road.

 

[Promo]

I have been rear ended by a texting teenager. Not hurt, but PITA.
I think distracted driving convictions should be punished more severely.
1st offence, 3 months suspension, 2nd 1 yr suspension.
We need to get the point across that’s it’s not cool to cause accidents and hurt or kill others.

Same with speeding. My daughter was killed last year. She was passenger in her boyfriends car, he was racing. 2 dead in the other car.
Boyfriend lived, no charges. Witnesses are dead.
In my opinion, he should do jail time and never drive again, ever.

Sorry about your loss TFZL1 and for the death of the people in the other car.

If I could ask, how did the police/courts justify the BF not being charged?

 

[essguy_]

The article in the OP (from the summer) is a little misleading. It's actually reckless drivers that are causing more accidents. Go further and you'll find comments about the stats like: ""Aggressive driving [comes in] all forms: speeding, tailgating, following too close, excessive lane changes — it's almost like stunt driving," Schmidt said. So again, without re-opening the argument (which TeeJay seems to think is an entitlement) of going too slowly in the left-hand lane - how many so called "speeding" accidents are actually a reckless driver making lane changes to avoid the CLUELESS idiot who is blocking traffic in the left lane? Note - I'm not excusing the reckless driver (or excessive lane changes) but at the same time, many of us have come upon the totally clueless driver (like TeeJay) who thinks it's their duty and right to block traffic - thus creating the dangerous conditions which result in reckless lane changes and accidents (usually behind the clueless driver - so they go on proudly thinking they are safe drivers when they are as much a part of the problem as reckless drivers).

Bottom line - don't drive recklessly AND don't drive cluelessly either.

Edit to add: I would include texting while driving as reckless behaviour too. In fact, many times, the clueless idiot going slowly in the left hand lane is either on his/her phone, or simply not paying attention.

 

[Big Rig]

It is speed + road conditions + inattention = the majority of bad accidents

You can be under the speed limit but still be driving too fast for conditions

One of the worse is fog. People have no reference for their speed IE trees etc because they cannot be seen and drive way too fast but most off all I hate ice . Just get the fuck off the road and wait until it has been salted

 

[TFZL1]

Sorry about your loss TFZL1 and for the death of the people in the other car.

If I could ask, how did the police/courts justify the BF not being charged?

At first they weren’t sure he’d live. Face n chest injuries, they were busy saving his life. Then arm legs and hip operations.
Last I heard was he got out of the rehab hospital at 8 months. Needs lots of physio but a full recovery expected.

 

[anon1]

Self driving cars!!! Were will the government get the MILLIONS of dollars for their fat Ontario wallets!!!??? No more tickets

What about the insurance companies? They will lose $BILLIONS in premiums.

 

[eternalbachelor]

The article in the OP (from the summer) is a little misleading. It's actually reckless drivers that are causing more accidents. Go further and you'll find comments about the stats like: ""Aggressive driving [comes in] all forms: speeding, tailgating, following too close, excessive lane changes — it's almost like stunt driving," Schmidt said. So again, without re-opening the argument (which TeeJay seems to think is an entitlement) of going too slowly in the left-hand lane - how many so called "speeding" accidents are actually a reckless driver making lane changes to avoid the CLUELESS idiot who is blocking traffic in the left lane?

+100, if not for slow drivers speeders would not be anywhere near as much of a problem

 

[rhuarc29]

Speed is a factor in severity, but never the sole cause of an accident. And since almost everyone speeds, speed is almost always a factor in collisions. Therefore, speed is almost always a factor in fatal collisions. For some reason Ontario sees this as causation. You could literally say speed is a factor in ALL collisions, even if the drivers weren't speeding. So if speed is a factor in 100% of fatal collisions, of course it would be the "#1 killer".

But to say so is somewhat disingenuous, and is more akin to pushing a narrative than anything else. Blaming speed is the easy answer. It gives them justification to keep issuing those one quarter of a million speeding tickets every year. Catching people for speeding and proving it is also much easier than catching people for distracted driving, aggressive driving, tail-gating, etc., and proving that. Cracking down on speed allows them to say they're solving the problem. Funny how the problem is never solved, yet we continue pointing the finger at the same culprit. It's the same kind of logic we use in our cities when a high-profile cyclist death occurs. Automatically it's assumed that we need to make our roads safer for our cyclists, rather than convince our cyclists to practice safer riding. And so we spend inordinate amounts of money, re-direct traffic, cause greater congestion...all in the interest of protecting cyclists. Yet it hasn't worked. Hmmm.

 

[The "Bone" Ranger]

I wonder how many deaths these left lane bandits are causing by aggravating people going somewhere at a normal traffic speed??

+100, if not for slow drivers speeders would not be anywhere near as much of a problem

 

[sempel]

I totally get what you are saying and agree in theory ........ but the reality is, even if the road conditions were perfect, most people don't have either the skill, experience or reflexes to drive at 140km/hr+, about 70% (I'm guessing) of the cars don't have the brakes or stability to operate at those speeds and lastly, our roads suck due to potholes, poor slope grading, sand/rocks on the surface, etc. <-- anyone that drives into Hamilton on the 403 will know what I mean about terrible surface grading.

And to ravencroft's point, sometimes other drivers react poorly to an aggressive driver around them and could cause an accident.

BMWs are generally a superior road car, yet the number of times I've seen BMWs fishtail on a lane change (traveling too fast and over-correcting) or significantly understeer in a turn goes to show the lack of skill of the drivers. Add the (generally accepted) fact that BMW drivers rarely signal and tend to be aggressive, you have an accident waiting to happen. Not intending to pick on BMW drivers, many are good. if stereotyping, I believe Ranger Rover drivers the worst drivers on the road.

I actually drive to Hamilton every so often and take the QEW. Until it branches between Niagara and Hamilton/Brantford, the roads are good. After that, they are not as nice and clean and quite curvy. Extremely high speeds are possible but yes, would be extremely dangerous. So a person doing 140 is going to be dangerous. But 140 on the 407 which is fairly straight or mildly curved poses little problem.

What I find is people are not aware. When you do a lane change, what is the first step? I was taught check your rearview mirror. People don't do this so they don't see someone coming up trying to pass so they change their lanes and cut-off. Then there's those that cannot judge speed/time and turn in front of an oncoming car thinking they have time when they don't. If I, the oncoming driver, am required to brake, especially if it's a hard brake, they should not have made that turn. Doesn't matter if I'm speeding or not. I see this happen very often.

It is speed + road conditions + inattention = the majority of bad accidents

You can be under the speed limit but still be driving too fast for conditions

One of the worse is fog. People have no reference for their speed IE trees etc because they cannot be seen and drive way too fast but most off all I hate ice . Just get the fuck off the road and wait until it has been salted

I would add that you driving at the limit and someone driving well below the limit is a huge problem. Again, differential is the problem.

Speed is a factor in severity, but never the sole cause of an accident. And since almost everyone speeds, speed is almost always a factor in collisions. Therefore, speed is almost always a factor in fatal collisions. For some reason Ontario sees this as causation. You could literally say speed is a factor in ALL collisions, even if the drivers weren't speeding. So if speed is a factor in 100% of fatal collisions, of course it would be the "#1 killer".

But to say so is somewhat disingenuous, and is more akin to pushing a narrative than anything else. Blaming speed is the easy answer. It gives them justification to keep issuing those one quarter of a million speeding tickets every year. Catching people for speeding and proving it is also much easier than catching people for distracted driving, aggressive driving, tail-gating, etc., and proving that. Cracking down on speed allows them to say they're solving the problem. Funny how the problem is never solved, yet we continue pointing the finger at the same culprit. It's the same kind of logic we use in our cities when a high-profile cyclist death occurs. Automatically it's assumed that we need to make our roads safer for our cyclists, rather than convince our cyclists to practice safer riding. And so we spend inordinate amounts of money, re-direct traffic, cause greater congestion...all in the interest of protecting cyclists. Yet it hasn't worked. Hmmm.

By definition, a car in motion is going at some speed so by extension, speed will always be a factor in a collision.

If anybody here has watched the Wire, you see a version of the police that has no desire to solve crimes - they simply try to get stats down and pretend they are effective. Most of the actions they take are like this - they are pretending they are doing something to look as if they have a reason to exist but in the end, nothing happens.

There is another thread about distracted driving fines being raised. Here's the thing - in theory they should do something similar if they truly wanted to end speeding. Imagine if you are caught doing 10 over the limit and the fine was $500? Imagine 20 over and it's $1000 but 3 day car suspension? Imagine it was $5000. Would anybody ever speed? Very few would. But it's too much of a cash cow to do something effective to actually end speeding.

 

[black booty lover]

I have been rear ended by a texting teenager. Not hurt, but PITA.
I think distracted driving convictions should be punished more severely.
1st offence, 3 months suspension, 2nd 1 yr suspension.
We need to get the point across that’s it’s not cool to cause accidents and hurt or kill others.

Same with speeding. My daughter was killed last year. She was passenger in her boyfriends car, he was racing. 2 dead in the other car.
Boyfriend lived, no charges. Witnesses are dead.
In my opinion, he should do jail time and never drive again, ever.

First of all, very sorry to hear about your daughter. That's terrible.

Second, people harp about drunk drivers and the punishment for being over the legal limit is quite severe and rightfully so, but I've always argued that reckless driving is just as bad and should be punished equally. No word of a lie, every time I'm on either 401, or 404 I see at least 1, if not more, person driving like a maniac speeding, weaving in and out of lanes. Instead of RIDE programs, I'd rather see much more cars unmarked patrolling highways catching these assholes. I see it on streets too, but much worse on highways.

 

[hamermill]

I hardly think checking your text mail while waiting at a stop light should be a $1,000 fine, a bunch of demerit points, and 3 days worth of your license taken away.

But whatuvah!!!!

Agreed it should be more. While those f cktards are checking their mail they are holding up traffic.

 

[TFZL1]

First of all, very sorry to hear about your daughter. That's terrible.

Second, people harp about drunk drivers and the punishment for being over the legal limit is quite severe and rightfully so, but I've always argued that reckless driving is just as bad and should be punished equally. No word of a lie, every time I'm on either 401, or 404 I see at least 1, if not more, person driving like a maniac speeding, weaving in and out of lanes. Instead of RIDE programs, I'd rather see much more cars unmarked patrolling highways catching these assholes. I see it on streets too, but much worse on highways.

They can only put so many patrol cars on the hwy. unless a cop sees the maniac, they can’t do much about it. It’s dangerous when the maniac runs out of room to run and has to cut someone off to get back into traffic and bunch everyone up.
The OPP has new transport trucks to spot speeders and texters. You’ll be passing a truck and won’t know it’s OPP with cameras and radios till you’ve passed him. I think that’s a great idea.
Then once they’ve got you, they can put your car in the back, impounded!

 

[TFZL1]

I’m a race fan. Racing is meant for he track, not public roads or hwy’s. Too many dumb kids driving muscle cars don’t know what they’re getting themselves into.
When I was a kid I read a book called ‘Hot Rod’. All the stupid teen kids died in the end. The track racer, the hero of the story, rushed the survivor to hospital. That story stuck with me over the years.

 

[Promo]

Second, people harp about drunk drivers and the punishment for being over the legal limit is quite severe and rightfully so, but I've always argued that reckless driving is just as bad and should be punished equally. No word of a lie, every time I'm on either 401, or 404 I see at least 1, if not more, person driving like a maniac speeding, weaving in and out of lanes. Instead of RIDE programs, I'd rather see much more cars unmarked patrolling highways catching these assholes. I see it on streets too, but much worse on highways.

Absolutely agree. A pet peeve of mine is a**holes who use merging, exit and HOV lanes (crossing the solid line repeatedly) to pass, especially at excessively high speeds. This morning I was sitting in stop-and-go on the QEW for ~30 minutes and saw 2 drivers reading the newspaper, several applying make-up and I lost track of how many were texting/emailing/talking on their phone.

Last observation, quite often I see an ambulance in the left lane with lights and siren and the idiot in front of them makes no effort to move over. Are they deaf and blind?? WTF!

They can only put so many patrol cars on the hwy. unless a cop sees the maniac, they can’t do much about it. ..........
The OPP has new transport trucks to spot speeders and texters. You’ll be passing a truck and won’t know it’s OPP with cameras and radios till you’ve passed him. I think that’s a great idea.
.........

Personally I'm less concerned if someone does 120 - 130 on a hwy like the 407 in good conditions and are not weaving. I've always suspected the police mostly focus on speeding tickets because they are low hanging fruit for their quota. I hope the police will use the same truck/radio platform to also nab weavers, tailgaters, etc.

I agree, the police simply don't have enough patrol cars on the road. That's why I can accept red light cameras and photo radar if those and other similar technologies free up police to patrol.

 

[eternalbachelor]

BMWs are generally a superior road car, yet the number of times I've seen BMWs fishtail on a lane change (traveling too fast and over-correcting) or significantly understeer in a turn goes to show the lack of skill of the drivers. Add the (generally accepted) fact that BMW drivers rarely signal and tend to be aggressive, you have an accident waiting to happen. Not intending to pick on BMW drivers, many are good. if stereotyping, I believe Ranger Rover drivers the worst drivers on the road.

who would you rather be driving behind say on a 401: a bmw driver who's doing 130 and gonna disappear in a minute or an old bag in a little shitty hyundai doing 90 forcing you to change lanes?