Thats because they want the johns to negotiate in dark alleys out of site where its nice and safe for the girls. I think you should read that letter again. " BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH PROSECUTING ANY OF THESE LAWS"
Andy
Speculation and Bravado
- Thread starter dirkd101
- Start date
Andy
To all those that consider this fear mongering, that is fine, you are entitled to your point of view. I have always looked upon TERB as a great resource and its mission statement was simple, to help others make informed choices. That has not changed, but the landscape has and I still believe in the mission statement, to help others make informed choices.
Steph, Andy, MPA, I mean no disrespect for all that you have done in advocating the rights of sex workers. I applaud your efforts.
MPA;
I do not condemn you for seeking consul, it would be folly if you had not and no, I do not know if you had inquired about what might happen to the client. If you have, it is not clearly stated on this site.
Steph;
Once again, I read how the ramifications affect yourself and your business, no mention of due care of providers anonymity if subpoenaed and the plight of the consumer. I do not fear monger, just giving plain, easy to follow facts for those who do not know the ramifications. I stand up for the consumer, letting him know where he stands in all of this.
The letter signed by city officials is laughable. Once a constituent blasts his/her councilor about this, maybe they have a street problem, that councilor will retract and say they had no idea what they were signing.
I have seen the links for what other jurisdictions from across the country are supposedly going to do. This is as bad as the fear mongering that you decree, as everything is in limbo and will be for some time. Status, as yet to be determined.
Both sides need all the education that they can get, consumers and business owners. Do you decry that we as consumers are not allowed a voice or a platform to educate those who may not know?
Steph, Andy, MPA, I mean no disrespect for all that you have done in advocating the rights of sex workers. I applaud your efforts.
MPA;
As an employer, it is your duty to tell your employees the risks. A subpoena could do irreparable harm in their personal life. If you have educated them, I do apologise, but I had not seen anything written to say that you or anyone else had.
I do not condemn you for seeking consul, it would be folly if you had not and no, I do not know if you had inquired about what might happen to the client. If you have, it is not clearly stated on this site.
Steph;
Once again, I read how the ramifications affect yourself and your business, no mention of due care of providers anonymity if subpoenaed and the plight of the consumer. I do not fear monger, just giving plain, easy to follow facts for those who do not know the ramifications. I stand up for the consumer, letting him know where he stands in all of this.
The letter signed by city officials is laughable. Once a constituent blasts his/her councilor about this, maybe they have a street problem, that councilor will retract and say they had no idea what they were signing.
I have seen the links for what other jurisdictions from across the country are supposedly going to do. This is as bad as the fear mongering that you decree, as everything is in limbo and will be for some time. Status, as yet to be determined.
Both sides need all the education that they can get, consumers and business owners. Do you decry that we as consumers are not allowed a voice or a platform to educate those who may not know?
Please read what I wrote again. I said that I had sought the advice of counsel and that as a responsible agency owner I have had a discussion with the ladies I represent. ....as well as any client who has asked.
Don't you dare insinuate that I don't stand up for the ladies that work in this industry or the clients that enjoy the services they provide.
Where were you when the ladies and agencies were the ones taking all the risks? Did you do even a tenth of the advocating that you claim to care so much about now? Shouldn't you be impressed rather than disdainful at the effort Andy, Emily, myself and many, many others are putting forward to protect all of our interests? Including yours? Perhaps you should be asking what you can do to help us instead of spending your time wondering publicly if we care about anything but our own bottom line. YOU ARE NOT HELPING. You are asking leading questions designed to incite us into defending ourselves and if and when our answers don't fall into what you believe we should be focused on you use it to further your position. It's insulting and quite frankly disappointing.
Determine your risk tolerance and govern yourself accordingly is the ONLY advice that makes any logical sense. I have and have made my opinion on how to minimize risk to the consumer public. I'm not ramming it down anyone's throat nor am I asking others to defend their position. If you'd like to have a discussion about this my phone line is open at 11.
As for your right to educate yourself and have a voice? Of course you do but with that comes responsibility, the responsibility to present the information in a concise and unbiased manner and not use that education to incite fear. I think it was Alexander Pope that first said " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
Steph
Steph,
My apologise, I had missed this;
I am not going to touch on other points as I am not here to fight with you or anyone else. I have respect for you and others and your opinions. You may say what you want about me, that is fine. If what I have posted strikes a chord with you in a bad way, then correct me where I am wrong, that is fine, but there has to be a voice for the consumer, in order to get the education needed in order to forge ahead. This education is needed so that the consumer knows the full weight of what he might get into. I see nothing wrong for sanding up for the consumer, whether you or anyone else thinks it's wrong.
I have not advocated anyone stop and that the 6th is the end of it all. I have only tried to point out that which affects this hobby from a standpoint of the consumer.
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
Daniel J Boorstin
“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change. ”
― Stephen Hawking
My apologise, I had missed this;
You are the first person to have posted such and I am in error for having missed this.
I am not going to touch on other points as I am not here to fight with you or anyone else. I have respect for you and others and your opinions. You may say what you want about me, that is fine. If what I have posted strikes a chord with you in a bad way, then correct me where I am wrong, that is fine, but there has to be a voice for the consumer, in order to get the education needed in order to forge ahead. This education is needed so that the consumer knows the full weight of what he might get into. I see nothing wrong for sanding up for the consumer, whether you or anyone else thinks it's wrong.
I have not advocated anyone stop and that the 6th is the end of it all. I have only tried to point out that which affects this hobby from a standpoint of the consumer.
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
Daniel J Boorstin
“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change. ”
― Stephen Hawking
I have no wish to fight with you either. I am simply requesting that with the knowledge you gain you not use it to perpetuate fears. Think before you type so to speak.
For example, you asked if I had made the ladies aware of the risk to their anonymity. This risk has always been present except that pre C36 it would have been in relation to an agency, primarily in call, as opposed to a client.
Risks have always existed in this industry. Your job once you have educated yourself is to mitigate your risk. Posting what you will/will not be doing going forward is certainly acceptable as is the agencies right to post their opinions on operating procedures.
We have all consulted lawyers and for a lot of us, each other, not just to protect our interests but also yours. We don't know what the industry will look like next week or next month but we do know that it will continue, and we will continue to operate in as safe a manner as is possible for everyone.
Steph
Why on earth do I or would I post information about employer/employee discussions or meetings? Clearly you aren't a customer of muse because if you were, you would be much better informed of our on-goings. Your assumptions are making an ass of you.
I'm still waiting for the "voice" of johns...this movement...where you invest a dollar or a letter or a few mins of your time to do something productive beyond complaining on a pooner website & call that "the voice of the consumer".
I 100% agree with Steph on all of her points! !!!
Your posts are downright insulting, assumptive, and incorrect.
What you are doing isn't any different then what Fuji is doing. Calling yourself the "voice of the consumer" and to think what you are doing is actually helping people is laughable. You are spewing the same shit that others have been spewing on this board for the last 6 months and then you have the audacity to downplay undermine, and just insult people like Emily who is working her ass off for this cause. You scoff at that letter signed by 25 city councilors, What have you done? other then bitch on this pooner board? telling people shit they already know?
Seriously what you are doing here, is so worthless and insignificant, you might as well be doing nothing at all.
Agreed. This goes for all the other judgmental, hypocritical, preaching asswipes who contribute nothing productive or of any value - especially those who don't even hobby, yet somehow feel they have the authority/insight to tell us how we should all be conducting ourselves.
Why are people here being so defensive?
I think we can all agree that there is bigger chance of being charged at this point in time than there has been in the past with the passage of this law.
We can still go forward and avoid charges if we are cautious (and lucky). Stick to the people you know (or know of). The government will want some charges prior to the 2015 election.
It's not like dirk is making this up. it's happening. Be ready.
I think we can all agree that there is bigger chance of being charged at this point in time than there has been in the past with the passage of this law.
We can still go forward and avoid charges if we are cautious (and lucky). Stick to the people you know (or know of). The government will want some charges prior to the 2015 election.
It's not like dirk is making this up. it's happening. Be ready.
Most of us here are well aware, especially those of us who've been following and discussing C36 since inception (that would be several months).
What we don't need are the same warnings, the same rhetoric, self-rightousness, indictments and condemnations.
At this point, the only discussion that really matters is one on how to manage and minimize risk going forward.
Most everything else, we've already heard.
D-Fens, legmann
If you have no need to know your rights, as you already know them, with respect to the new laws, then move on. There are others that do not know their rights and where they stand as it pertains to the new law.
I have been in the hobby a long time, the mid 80s, I still hobby quite regularly and I am not a reformed hobbyist and I am certainly not a " judgmental, hypocritical, preaching asswipe".
legmann
I did not realize I have to be a known philanthropist and blow my own horn with regards to being able to make those souls whom are unawares, able to navigate in these new and turbulent waters.
I have posted information for those who have asked in many threads for the information that I have provided, as I have not seen this in any way that answers the main question, how does this or can this affect me.
If you find this to knowledge harmful, I am confused as to why?
This board has always been about providing intel so that it helps others make informed choices. The downside of this board has been those that lambaste other members with their own conjecture, harangue for doing something contrary to their stance on a subject.
If you have no need to know your rights, as you already know them, with respect to the new laws, then move on. There are others that do not know their rights and where they stand as it pertains to the new law.
I have been in the hobby a long time, the mid 80s, I still hobby quite regularly and I am not a reformed hobbyist and I am certainly not a " judgmental, hypocritical, preaching asswipe".
legmann
I have never said I possess any such authority or insight and I have never told anyone how to conduct themselves, but rather letting them know about C36 from the standpoint of the consumer.
I did not realize I have to be a known philanthropist and blow my own horn with regards to being able to make those souls whom are unawares, able to navigate in these new and turbulent waters.
I have posted information for those who have asked in many threads for the information that I have provided, as I have not seen this in any way that answers the main question, how does this or can this affect me.
If you find this to knowledge harmful, I am confused as to why?
This board has always been about providing intel so that it helps others make informed choices. The downside of this board has been those that lambaste other members with their own conjecture, harangue for doing something contrary to their stance on a subject.
As a postscript for those who accuse me of inciting fear amongst the brethren, fellow hobbyist and business owners alike.
The information that I have provided in regards to C36, as it pertains to the consumer is to educate. This education is needed in order for the consumer to stick handle in the confines of this new landscape. With the knowledge gained, said consumer will know the do's and don'ts as it pertains to these now murky waters.
Is not an educated consumer a good consumer? As this consumer knows there are new rules and new ways of conducting business. That consumer will not ask questions that are now forbidden, post information that should not be posted that could lead to problems for others in the future. That consumer, with the new knowledge of exactly where they stand is now a better consumer and is a better stick handler and a better customer as they know their way around in this new era.
That consumer will know how to conduct business in the proper way.
That's how education works.
The information that I have provided in regards to C36, as it pertains to the consumer is to educate. This education is needed in order for the consumer to stick handle in the confines of this new landscape. With the knowledge gained, said consumer will know the do's and don'ts as it pertains to these now murky waters.
Is not an educated consumer a good consumer? As this consumer knows there are new rules and new ways of conducting business. That consumer will not ask questions that are now forbidden, post information that should not be posted that could lead to problems for others in the future. That consumer, with the new knowledge of exactly where they stand is now a better consumer and is a better stick handler and a better customer as they know their way around in this new era.
That consumer will know how to conduct business in the proper way.
That's how education works.
You, sir, are not a lawyer. Following terb advice is foolish. And certainly not education.
There are countless threads about how c36 affects the consumer. In fact, all of them are "how to save ourselves". And then folks like you & fuli & icespot & more go lashing at owners who might be sacrificing their own legalities to protect the customer...who is only worried about himself. Very few of you actually took proactive political action. Very few have added their voice to our fight for ALL involved. And none contributed a dollar.
So please, do us all a favor, go get a lawyer. Stop telling people you speak for the consumer. Most consumers have read all the threads & found the info they need to cross check via their own homework.
Quit being lazy & self-serving.
Go get educated.
And that, sir, is how the educated get moving!
Except as of today its all hypothetical.
With all due respect, you have no knowledge at all, because you are attempting to predict future results based on unknown behavioural and enforcement patterns.
You aren't educating, you're speculating. I'm not suggesting you have put a lot of thought into what your saying or that you believe in it and believe it is useful, but its all guessing and literally nothing more.
By way of analogy, in high school some guy at the mall tried tried to sell me a ticket to the future. When I asked him why 'univers' didn't have an 'e' at the end (the ticket to the future just said 'univers' on it and was apparently currency in a few hundred years), he said that in the future it doesn't. Sufficiently impressed, my buddies and I told him that he should come with us to our school and that they would arrange an assembly so he could educate us all about the coming apocalypse and the future. He thought that was a splendid idea and walked with us back to school.
Oddly enough, the assembly never took place.
The moral of this story is that Professor Errol (he said he was a professor, who am I to argue?) may not have actually known what he was talking about, but he sure spent a lot of time formulating his ideas in order to educate us all.
