Six dead after bus crashes with Via train at marked crossing in Ottawa.
- Thread starter rafterman
- Start date
I know where you are coming from but society need buses/trains to function but I think our society can survive very nicely without so many guns.
Was the driver Muslim? Christian? Kamikaze?
Any chance his name was Lawrence Burt?
That would be interesting! Anyone heard the drivers name released yet?
Any chance his name was Lawrence Burt?
That would be interesting! Anyone heard the drivers name released yet?
Obviously, the bus is at fault. The train has the right of way.
The question becomes - was it mechanical error, or driver error. From the witness reports, the people on the bus were screaming "stop stop" - so they could tell that the train was coming and the bus wasn't slowing down enough.
Looking at the aerial photos on the CBC, the bus was rounding a very sharp corner in a dedicated bus corridor. The driver did not have a clear line of sight to the track. It was a double decker bus, so maybe the driver sits low and could not see the train coming for the bush along the track.
Maybe his thoughts were drifting. Who knows. We all do it. We're driving along and we're on auto pilot and thinking of something other than the road and we make a mistake.
Obviously, there will be a very detailed investigation, including a very hard look at the geometry of the road at that location.
The one question that does bear asking....
How come they don't have a bridge at this location? Put the road under the tracks. I know that there are thousands of crossings in Canada where you could make the same argument, but I know Woodroffe Ave in Ottawa and it's a busy road.
The question becomes - was it mechanical error, or driver error. From the witness reports, the people on the bus were screaming "stop stop" - so they could tell that the train was coming and the bus wasn't slowing down enough.
Looking at the aerial photos on the CBC, the bus was rounding a very sharp corner in a dedicated bus corridor. The driver did not have a clear line of sight to the track. It was a double decker bus, so maybe the driver sits low and could not see the train coming for the bush along the track.
Maybe his thoughts were drifting. Who knows. We all do it. We're driving along and we're on auto pilot and thinking of something other than the road and we make a mistake.
Obviously, there will be a very detailed investigation, including a very hard look at the geometry of the road at that location.
The one question that does bear asking....
How come they don't have a bridge at this location? Put the road under the tracks. I know that there are thousands of crossings in Canada where you could make the same argument, but I know Woodroffe Ave in Ottawa and it's a busy road.
They were going to a few years back but found that there were soil issues in the area that would pump the cost up a bunch of million $, so it got put on the back burner and the money was spent elsewhere.
Yeah those railway crossing barriers with flashing lights are hard to see when they're down, rolls eyes. Heard that the driver was out celebrating his wife's bday the night before. Quite possible he was hungover and fell asleep.Obviously, the bus is at fault. The train has the right of way.
The question becomes - was it mechanical error, or driver error. From the witness reports, the people on the bus were screaming "stop stop" - so they could tell that the train was coming and the bus wasn't slowing down enough.
Looking at the aerial photos on the CBC, the bus was rounding a very sharp corner in a dedicated bus corridor. The driver did not have a clear line of sight to the track. It was a double decker bus, so maybe the driver sits low and could not see the train coming for the bush along the track.
Maybe his thoughts were drifting. Who knows. We all do it. We're driving along and we're on auto pilot and thinking of something other than the road and we make a mistake.
Obviously, there will be a very detailed investigation, including a very hard look at the geometry of the road at that location.
The one question that does bear asking....
How come they don't have a bridge at this location? Put the road under the tracks. I know that there are thousands of crossings in Canada where you could make the same argument, but I know Woodroffe Ave in Ottawa and it's a busy road.
Most vehicle/train or people/train accidents are the fault of the people walking or driving that ignore or disobey the signs, you can't stupidproof everything. Many people walk on tracks with earphones in and whammo, never see or hear it coming.
As tragic as this accident is, the national channels have reported on little else, 60-80%o the news involves issues around the accident, as if other news event have just gone away.
This particular crossing has been put up for an overpass on a couple of occasions, but shelved because of the expense. Any bets it's get done now?
This particular crossing has been put up for an overpass on a couple of occasions, but shelved because of the expense. Any bets it's get done now?
It's Ottawa. They have bridges there too.
I believe the track in question is the VIA Rail Canada's Alexandria subdivision. (It is south of Hunt Club Road.) The Alexandria sub was sold by CNR a few years back to VIA because all the freight traffic dried up and there was only VIA. VIA uses the Alexandria subdivision to make its runs to Toronto and Montreal from Ottawa.
Interestingly enough, just north of the location of the crossing in question is the CNR Beachburg Subdivision.
The Woodroffe / Beachburg crossing is grade separated.
Obviously, the bus is at fault. The train has the right of way.
The question becomes - was it mechanical error, or driver error. From the witness reports, the people on the bus were screaming "stop stop" - so they could tell that the train was coming and the bus wasn't slowing down enough.
Looking at the aerial photos on the CBC, the bus was rounding a very sharp corner in a dedicated bus corridor. The driver did not have a clear line of sight to the track. It was a double decker bus, so maybe the driver sits low and could not see the train coming for the bush along the track.
Maybe his thoughts were drifting. Who knows. We all do it. We're driving along and we're on auto pilot and thinking of something other than the road and we make a mistake.
Obviously, there will be a very detailed investigation, including a very hard look at the geometry of the road at that location.
The one question that does bear asking....
How come they don't have a bridge at this location? Put the road under the tracks. I know that there are thousands of crossings in Canada where you could make the same argument, but I know Woodroffe Ave in Ottawa and it's a busy road.
Thanks for this excellent diagram. Fuck I feel sorry for those passengers (and I guess the driver) that were struck by the train. What a crash. How could this happen with even the arm lowered and signals flashing? Jesus.
Not having seen pictures or the drawing of the incident, I first thought the driver fell asleep but looking at it now it's hard to imagine the driver was awake to make the sweeping left hand corner only to fall asleep on the straight bit just before the crossing. I wonder how many trips the driver made through this crossing in the past. I'm sure he was aware that there's a train crossing there.
I heard someone say that's a dangerous crossing and they should build an overpass. Really? Every level train crossing and every traffic intersection is dangerous if someone fails to stop. I hope they don't build an overpass because one bus ignored signals and barriers and crashed into a train.
RIP
I heard someone say that's a dangerous crossing and they should build an overpass. Really? Every level train crossing and every traffic intersection is dangerous if someone fails to stop. I hope they don't build an overpass because one bus ignored signals and barriers and crashed into a train.
RIP
That's the $64,000 question!
Assuming the driver is at fault, people ask, "how could this happen"?
I will tell you.
1. The sight lines are not good as you can see from the diagram above. You come round the corner and the crossing is right there.
2. The bus driver made a mistake.
He's a human being and he slipped. (Assuming he is to blame.) His mind is on something else, he took his eyes off the road for two seconds, he's not 100% good to go. Maybe he's driven that route so many times, he's on auto-pilot, his experience is working against him.
People make mistakes all the time.
Unless he deliberately drove the bus into the train, or was on the phone, I'm not going to crucify the guy.
And there should be a bridge.
I've read that there are ground water issues that would have increased the price of a subway at that location. Well, build an overhead. Overheads are less desireable because of the large earth embankments required to get the cars over the tracks, but at that location, it's out in the boonies anyway. An overhead would not be affected by ground water whereas a subway would be. (But everyone likes subways because visually they offer the cleaner lines and they don't need the earth embankments - but they do require a hell of a lot of digging.)
I will tell you.
1. The sight lines are not good as you can see from the diagram above. You come round the corner and the crossing is right there.
2. The bus driver made a mistake.
He's a human being and he slipped. (Assuming he is to blame.) His mind is on something else, he took his eyes off the road for two seconds, he's not 100% good to go. Maybe he's driven that route so many times, he's on auto-pilot, his experience is working against him.
People make mistakes all the time.
Unless he deliberately drove the bus into the train, or was on the phone, I'm not going to crucify the guy.
And there should be a bridge.
I've read that there are ground water issues that would have increased the price of a subway at that location. Well, build an overhead. Overheads are less desireable because of the large earth embankments required to get the cars over the tracks, but at that location, it's out in the boonies anyway. An overhead would not be affected by ground water whereas a subway would be. (But everyone likes subways because visually they offer the cleaner lines and they don't need the earth embankments - but they do require a hell of a lot of digging.)
