Should pro sports be broken up ?

[Yoga Face]

It seems to me they have a monopoly and then we are dumb euff to build them a stadium so they , and the players, can gouge the fans !

If Hamilton wants a team in the NHL or Toronto wants two it would drop the prices dramatically ( along with salaries )

The NHL, NFL etc are not free enterprises they are monopolies and like all monopolies they rip off the fans and the players (until they formed unions )

 

[shack]

It seems to me they have a monopoly and then we are dumb euff to build them a stadium so they , and the players, can gouge the fans !

If Hamilton wants a team in the NHL or Toronto wants two it would drop the prices dramatically ( along with salaries )

The NHL, NFL etc are not free enterprises they are monopolies and like all monopolies they rip off the fans and the players (until they formed unions )

Don't think your argument holds true.

A sports fan has many different places to spend his money. And sport is not an essential need. It is not the same as if there were a monopoly in banking, telecommunications, energy, food, all things that people need to use in our society. If a sports team is charging too much for a ticket, one can stay home. If one needs gas for their car, they need gas for their car.

Someone can not open a McDonald's franchise anywhere they want without approval from the parent company.

Anyone with the resources is free to start their own league. American Football League, World Hockey Association, American League (baseball) all managed to get franchises in cities where there was not approval from the powers that be of their time.

 

[wazup]

I would call a monopoly the oil companies all colluding to keep gas at the same price.

 

[Yoga Face]

Don't think your argument holds true.

A sports fan has many different places to spend his money. And sport is not an essential need. It is not the same as if there were a monopoly in banking, telecommunications, energy, food, all things that people need to use in our society. If a sports team is charging too much for a ticket, one can stay home. If one needs gas for their car, they need gas for their car.

Someone can not open a McDonald's franchise anywhere they want without approval from the parent company.

Anyone with the resources is free to start their own league. American Football League, World Hockey Association, American League (baseball) all managed to get franchises in cities where there was not approval from the powers that be of their time.

Sports has an oligopy would be more acurrate because it is extremely difficult to create competition

That it is not an essential service is irrelevant

 

[Ironhead]

It seems to me they have a monopoly and then we are dumb euff to build them a stadium so they , and the players, can gouge the fans !

If Hamilton wants a team in the NHL or Toronto wants two it would drop the prices dramatically ( along with salaries )

The NHL, NFL etc are not free enterprises they are monopolies and like all monopolies they rip off the fans and the players (until they formed unions )

Brake them up .... into what ?
'The leagues' is that what you mean ? That makes no sense.
I do not see any monopoly, other leagues have started up to compete against the "establishment" and the people spoke. We said "Get Lost" in almost every case.

Leave sports alone.
Go fuck around with "Reality(phoniest) TV". Get that crap off the air, do human kind some good.

 

[Yoga Face]

Brake them up .... into what ?
'The leagues' is that what you mean ? That makes no sense.
I do not see any monopoly, other leagues have started up to compete against the "establishment" and the people spoke. We said "Get Lost" in almost every case.

Leave sports alone.
Go fuck around with "Reality(phoniest) TV". Get that crap off the air, do human kind some good.

Allow all franchises into the league that can survive

Imagine two teams in Toronto and one in Hamilton ?

The Leafs now have to win or go under as their oligopoly is taken away

It would decrease the cost of tickets as well


Oh yeah, all players have freedom of movement. This is supposed to be a free country

If capitalism can force a workplace on the athletes we can all be next

 

[robycapone]

The alreday do allow franchises that at the time Passed the Leauges MANDATED financial testing and requirements at time of application.

At this point HAMILTON fails the NHL's requirement. Stadium being one of the issues. Hamilton cant even support their AHL team who has been a fantastic product on the ice..

you're point is going nowhere. Having Hamilton in the NHL would not effect the Leafs One Single Bit. the ticket prices will still rise... what you fail to understand is that the Toronto Maple Leafs (as this is where your point is solely based on) do not fall under the simple Supply vs. Demand scenario.

The fan base is too great and too deep that it will simply not go away. The Leafs have sold out for how many years now with a horrible product on the Ice??? With regards to ticket prices, Hamilton would have cost a pretty penny as well....probably a least 75-80% of what the leafs charge if not MORE.

to get into a CLUB you have to meet special requirements.....you do not meet said requirements you do not get it. Try to join a Golf Club lately???? granted the NHL is an OldBoy's club...financial requirements are the least of!!!

Players do have freedom of movement as outlined by their Agreement their UNION has with the League (CBA).

A Collective Bargaining Agreement is a mutually agreed upon Labor Contract which dictates what each 'worker' (in this case athletes) can and cannot do, working conditions, grievence procedures..etc...between employer (NHL teams) and employee (players).

 

[Yoga Face]

The already do allow franchises that at the time Passed the Leagues MANDATED financial testing and requirements at time of application.

At this point HAMILTON fails the NH L's requirement. Stadium being one of the issues. Hamilton cant even support their AHL team who has been a fantastic product on the ice..

you're point is going nowhere. Having Hamilton in the NHL would not effect the Leafs One Single Bit. the ticket prices will still rise... what you fail to understand is that the Toronto Maple Leafs (as this is where your point is solely based on) do not fall under the simple Supply vs. Demand scenario.

The fan base is too great and too deep that it will simply not go away. The Leafs have sold out for how many years now with a horrible product on the Ice??? With regards to ticket prices, Hamilton would have cost a pretty penny as well....probably a least 75-80% of what the leafs charge if not MORE.

to get into a CLUB you have to meet special requirements.....you do not meet said requirements you do not get it. Try to join a Golf Club lately???? granted the NHL is an Old Boy's club...financial requirements are the least of!!!

Players do have freedom of movement as outlined by their Agreement their UNION has with the League (CBA).

A Collective Bargaining Agreement is a mutually agreed upon Labor Contract which dictates what each 'worker' (in this case athletes) can and cannot do, working conditions, grievance procedures..etc...between employer (NHL teams) and employee (players).

First, the union has fought for rights and each contract receive more freedom and eventually will have complete freedom. A freedom they should never have had to fight for. Careers have been destroyed by owners that would have flourished if that player had these fundamental worker rights to not be drafted by egocentrics like Ballard was for example

Second, why should an oligopoly be able to ask for millions to join their boys club ???

Everyone is let in and if they can survive they survive if they do not attract a fan base they lose as it should be

I disagree that Leaf fans will stay with the Leafs when given the opportunity to see a better team at a lower cost

I do not know if Hamilton could support a team but Toronto could probably support two


Oh yeah, no more taxpayers funding a stadium FFS !

 

[gcostanza]

No taxpayer funds were used to build the Air Canada Centre (to the best of my knowledge).

 

[Yoga Face]

No taxpayer funds were used to build the Air Canada Centre (to the best of my knowledge).

Any tax breaks ? The erroneous propaganda spread by greedy owners that a stadium produces spin off revenue for the community has been proven false

 

[The Oracle]

Any tax breaks ? The erroneous propaganda spread by greedy owners that a stadium produces spin off revenue for the community has been proven false

Care to show us the evidence that it was proven false.

I'm betting you can't, prove me wrong.

 

[Yoga Face]

Care to show us the evidence that it was proven false.

I'm betting you can't, prove me wrong.

You lose

There is a book written by a economics professor and I heard him interviewed

His conclusion was it helps produce jobs with local pubs and parking lot attendants but nothing of any significance

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Dumb poll

You lose

There is a book written by a economics professor and I heard him interviewed

His conclusion was it helps produce jobs with local pubs and parking lot attendants but nothing of any significance

Hardly. One person's opinion - yet still no reference from the OP. Try providing a name.

Even still, there are jobs beyond pubs and parking lots (which are still jobs, in case you forgot.) This includes the initial building/construction, the office staff, maintenance, vendors, etc. It also leads to tourist dollars and the related spin-offs: hotels, restaurants, etc.

While the impacts are not as great as claimed, they are still significant.

The problem is more when a team holds a city/region hostage, a la the Seattle Supersonics, etc. There needs to be more of a social compact, given the antitrust benefits most sports receive and the initial outlays most cities provide pro sports teams. However, almost every business receives "tax breaks," free land, etc. This is hardly new. There are many other intrinsic benefits a sports team provides that other businesses do not.

Give it a rest - your attempts at stirring the pot are weak and ill-informed.

 

[Yoga Face]

Hardly. One person's opinion - yet still no reference from the OP. Try providing a name.

Even still, there are jobs beyond pubs and parking lots (which are still jobs, in case you forgot.) This includes the initial building/construction, the office staff, maintenance, vendors, etc. It also leads to tourist dollars and the related spin-offs: hotels, restaurants, etc.

While the impacts are not as great as claimed, they are still significant.

The problem is more when a team holds a city/region hostage, a la the Seattle Supersonics, etc. There needs to be more of a social compact, given the antitrust benefits most sports receive and the initial outlays most cities provide pro sports teams. However, almost every business receives "tax breaks," free land, etc. This is hardly new. There are many other intrinsic benefits a sports team provides that other businesses do not.

Give it a rest - your attempts at stirring the pot are weak and ill-informed.

I disagree

The initial construction is part of any public building, The question is why build this one instead of something else, or better yet, let the taxpayers keep the monies and they can spend it on consumer goods ?

I do not know the authors name but I know WTF he said so you gotta trust me. He found none of this great spin off including tourism

We do agree that anti trust benefits sports teams receive need to be diminished

I say the athletes receive great monies because they too are beneficiaries of this gouge

WTF do we get out of it ???? A bad team and monopolistic ticket prices ! The NFL will not even televise a game locally unless it is sold out !

 

[The Oracle]

I do not know the authors name but I know WTF he said so you gotta trust me. He found none of this great spin off including tourism

Here's the way it works in a debate.

If you make a statement based on a study then it has to be referenced.

Taking your word for it just doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

I also agree with Captain Fantastic's post on the subject

 

[Yoga Face]

Here's the way it works in a debate.

If you make a statement based on a study then it has to be referenced.

Taking your word for it just doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

I also agree with Captain Fantastic's post on the subject

I appreciate your feedback but I struggle with it

This is Terb not a debating society so references cannot always be expected but I know WTF was said

Interesting topic from my view because I thought I would garner more support

Pro sports has a effective monopoly then charge what the market can be gouged for. In turn you receive the team they can make the most moola on ( which is the team that is average but never wins by design) EG Detroit Lions , Maple Leafs etc and in most cases taxpayers even pay for the stadium !






Oh well. I will go back to porntube now

 

[shack]

Interesting topic from my view because I thought I would garner more support.

Guess not.

Oh well. I will go back to porntube now

Sounds like better use of your time.

 

[Ironhead]

Yogi actually wants to change pro sports as opposed to breaking it up.
Most of his arguments still do not make sense to me.

Adding a second NHL team in TO and one in Hamilton would force the Leafs to ... do what ?
They have not won the Cup since '67 and have not made the playoffs in several years, but still sell out with the high prices they have.
I do not see how having other teams around them would force them to do anything.
The Cubs have not won the WS in over a century(100 years) and they charge more for tickets then the '05 WS Champion White Sox.

 

[Safdar]

I would call a monopoly the oil companies all colluding to keep gas at the same price.

That would be called collusion. A monopoly is if there is only one oil company that you could get your gas from and they could charge anything they want.

 

[Yoga Face]

Yogi actually wants to change pro sports as opposed to breaking it up.
Most of his arguments still do not make sense to me.

Adding a second NHL team in TO and one in Hamilton would force the Leafs to ... do what ?
They have not won the Cup since '67 and have not made the playoffs in several years, but still sell out with the high prices they have.
I do not see how having other teams around them would force them to do anything.
The Cubs have not won the WS in over a century(100 years) and they charge more for tickets then the '05 WS Champion White Sox.

Then you would not support the leafs if a competitor had a better team at a cheaper pricer and the Leafs would go under

Oligoplies are never good for the consumer