Sex Work is Work

[Archer2012]

It is work, but the fact that it is in the grey zone allows SP to chose how much of income to show (through "set-up companies") for tax purposes and I am absolutely sure almost all SP show just a portion of it that will allow them to have track record of income for credit purposes and any possible tax audit. A fully legalised prostitution with brothels that control number of clients per SP and may even have these numbers for each individual SP will make hiding large portion of income much harder

So following that line of thinking - there are many businesses that have a “cash component” and would be a “grey area”. There is no business that deals in cash that claims 100% of it??
Bars / Restaurants - for Waitresses / Waiters.
Taxi Cab Drivers, Bell Hops, Doormen, Pizza Delivery , Any “Take out” food delivery,
Renovation Contractors / Land Scapers / House Painting etc, etc, etc - list goes on and on and on.

 

[fall]

So following that line of thinking - there are many businesses that have a “cash component” and would be a “grey area”. There is no business that deals in cash that claims 100% of it??
Bars / Restaurants - for Waitresses / Waiters.
Taxi Cab Drivers, Bell Hops, Doormen, Pizza Delivery , Any “Take out” food delivery,
Renovation Contractors / Land Scapers / House Painting etc, etc, etc - list goes on and on and on.

Yes, if the receipts are not issued and there is no way customers will claim that expense as a tax credit, most such cash businesses under-report revenues. Why do you think contractors or small garages offer lower price if paid in cash and do not charge you HST? There is, however, limits on how much cash businesses can under-report based on customary revenue in similar business, and reporting too low may lead to a suspicion and audit. With SPs, there is no such official statistics for revenue, hence, it is much easier to underreport. Legalisation of prostitution will establish such statistics and make underreporting more costly.

 

[escortsxxx]

Actually Canada has had a fairly positive spin on sex work for a long time, at least 1969 - the old laws pre Harper has sex work as perfectly legal - just not public versions - no streetwalking, no advertising etc.
The convertive party has become a purtian party pushing things one way and other factors are also in play. The fear of what the internet has created has added a new ball into the game.
Political parties would be at this point a failure - rather literature movies and what not are the key - the narative that sex work is bad is the common literature from sex workers. We had a thread just last week with one example of this.

 

[fall]

Actually Canada has had a fairly positive spin on sex work for a long time, at least 1969 - the old laws pre Harper has sex work as perfectly legal - just not public versions - no streetwalking, no advertising etc.
The convertive party has become a purtian party pushing things one way and other factors are also in play. The fear of what the internet has created has added a new ball into the game.
Political parties would be at this point a failure - rather literature movies and what not are the key - the narative that sex work is bad is the common literature from sex workers. We had a thread just last week with one example of this.

Do not blame conservatives: Liberals are in power for a long time and had no intention to change the law. In fact, they are happy the conservative did the dirty job for them so they do not have to touch this issue.

 

[wigglee]

Sex workers have to stand up and be counted, saying "I do this job of my own free will". The police and politicians try to portray them as victims of human trafficking and abusive pimps. Regarding covid, I don't understand how the gov't allows bars and casinos to be open but screws over both strippers and musicians. It makes no sense.

 

[Archer2012]

Sex workers have to stand up and be counted, saying "I do this job of my own free will". The police and politicians try to portray them as victims of human trafficking and abusive pimps. Regarding covid, I don't understand how the gov't allows bars and casinos to be open but screws over both strippers and musicians. It makes no sense.

TAX, TAX, TAX . There is no other “rime or reason” other than follow the Money.

Different but look at Ontario Construction industry - stayed open full force. BANKS have allot of money out there and BANKS have a strong voice with the Gov.

 

[Valcazar]

I think the line between decriminalized and legalized is a bit blurry here. I'm not sure everyone is using it the same way.

 

[Jenesis]

Sex work may be work, but if buying sex is illegal, I have a hard time accepting it as the "real" work. Any push to legitimize sex work must begin with the legalizing the purchase of sex.

You guys had the legal right to purchase sex for years, while the ladies were criminalized, you had your turn to make yours voices heard during all the C-36 hearings and now that the deed is done, you want to say that sex work is not real work because NOW it affects you? Ok pumpkin.

Sex work is real work. Period. You try it and tell me different. Until then, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about and are just acting out of selfishness.

 

[jcpro]

You guys had the legal right to purchase sex for years, while the ladies were criminalized, you had your turn to make yours voices heard during all the C-36 hearings and now that the deed is done, you want to say that sex work is not real work because NOW it affects you? Ok pumpkin.

Sex work is real work. Period. You try it and tell me different. Until then, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about and are just acting out of selfishness.

It may be work, but the result is an illegal product. It will never be legitimized until it can be sold legally.

 

[Jenesis]

It may be work, but the result is an illegal product. It will never be legitimized until it can be sold legally.

Doesn’t mean it is not real work. I pay taxes on this work. I do the admin, I do the job, I advertise, I market, I get shitty or great ROI, I have profits and losses, income statements, materials and supplies, etc etc

Don’t say it is not “real” work. You are just perpetrating the stereotype.

BTW - you are getting your terms wrong. It is 1000% sold legally. You’re just pissy you can’t legally buy it. Doesn’t mean it is not legally sold.

 

[jcpro]

Doesn’t mean it is not real work. I pay taxes on this work. I do the admin, I do the job, I advertise, I market, I get shitty or great ROI, I have profits and losses, income statements, materials and supplies, etc etc

Don’t say it is not “real” work. You are just perpetrating the stereotype.

BTW - you are getting your terms wrong. It is 1000% sold legally. You’re just pissy you can’t legally buy it. Doesn’t mean it is not legally sold.

It takes some mental gymnastics to decree that selling is legal, but buying is not. How exactly does that work beside providing the immunity to the SPs? As I said TWICE it "may be work", but it cannot be recognized as "work" in the normal sense because what you're peddling is illegal to purchase. It is great that you pay taxes and strive to be legitimate- I'm all for it. I'm also for considering sex work to be classified as any commercial activity, BUT that cannot be achieved while you're selling an illegal product. I'm completely on your side, but I also acknowledge that you cannot reach your goals as long as you're dealing on the fringes of the criminal law.

 

[Jenesis]

It takes some mental gymnastics to decree that selling is legal, but buying is not. How exactly does that work beside providing the immunity to the SPs? As I said TWICE it "may be work", but it cannot be recognized as "work" in the normal sense because what you're peddling is illegal to purchase. It is great that you pay taxes and strive to be legitimate- I'm all for it. I'm also for considering sex work to be classified as any commercial activity, BUT that cannot be achieved while you're selling an illegal product. I'm completely on your side, but I also acknowledge that you cannot reach your goals as long as you're dealing on the fringes of the criminal law.

Tobacco companies have gotten away with it for years. You have to be 18/19 to buy but can be 16 to smoke. At least it was like that for me when I was younger.

The dynamics of legality may have changed from provider to client but the industry is alive and well. Has been. Will be. All these WORKING women will continue to work

You said straight out that you don’t consider it real work. Whatever your reasons, you don’t consider it real work. Period. You are apart of the problem.

If you really are on our side, change your narrative to something a little more pro-sex work. Instead of telling thousands of women that what they do every day is not a “real” job.

But to be honest, your replies reek of selfish intent. You only care about this topic because you are the person criminalized, when for years it was the other way around. You didn’t speak up to the people in power, for buyers Like yourself, when the chance was made available. Seems like a bunch of pass the buck, hot air blowing to me. That is just my opinion. I could be wrong, but that is what it is.

 

[jcpro]

Tobacco companies have gotten away with it for years. You have to be 18/19 to buy but can be 16 to smoke. At least it was like that for me when I was younger.

The dynamics of legality may have changed from provider to client but the industry is alive and well. Has been. Will be. All these WORKING women will continue to work

You said straight out that you don’t consider it real work. Whatever your reasons, you don’t consider it real work. Period. You are apart of the problem.

If you really are on our side, change your narrative to something a little more pro-sex work. Instead of telling thousands of women that what they do every day is not a “real” job.

But to be honest, your replies reek of selfish intent. You only care about this topic because you are the person criminalized, when for years it was the other way around. You didn’t speak up to the people in power, for buyers Like yourself, when the chance was made available. Seems like a bunch of pass the buck, hot air blowing to me. That is just my opinion. I could be wrong, but that is what it is.

You should stop attacking me and consider the subject dispassionately. You are in a position where your efforts (work) result in a product that the purchase of it leads to criminal charges. It is work, that's for sure, but it's far from legitimate. You cannot divorce the seller from the purchaser- it just doesn't work that way; it never has and it never will, except in the fertile mind of a clueless politician.

 

[TeeJay]

People are ignorant when it comes to sex work. What they see is what is projected by the media (trafficking, violence, drugs ect.). Wich is a side of it but far from being all of it.

You make a point with the vote. Lot of people over 35 yrs old had an education related to religion in some ways. The older generation is not as open to it as the "Pretty Woman" generation and younger are. Finaly your wife. Your wife does not want decriminalisation lol.

It will take time but I feel like people are more open than they once were in my childhood.

Service work would not exist if people did not partake of it
But like I said it is looked down upon harshly by public in general

Totally right about "drugs" and "trafficking" which we both know is in minority (and prob not even that much higher than general public anyways)

For education looks at how many schools are faith based. You used to only worry about the crying bible thumpers but now you deal with other groups as well.

 

[Jenesis]

You should stop attacking me and consider the subject dispassionately. You are in a position where your efforts (work) result in a product that the purchase of it leads to criminal charges. It is work, that's for sure, but it's far from legitimate. You cannot divorce the seller from the purchaser- it just doesn't work that way; it never has and it never will, except in the fertile mind of a clueless politician.

But it does work that way because it is happening daily now. It may not be the way YOU want NOW but the industry is still working on a regular.

But for argument sake, I get what you are saying. If I believe you are saying it in a supportive way is another matter. However, what I am saying is changing your narrative and HOW you say it because saying it is not “real” work until you are not the criminal anymore, is denouncing thousands of women and their legitimate work. It is so legit that I pay taxes on it. That is how legit MY work is.

So stop playing the narrative that puts down my job and start changing it to why you should not be criminalized. That is what we did and why it is now legit work for us. It is your time to step up and make buying legal for you and using a narrative that demeans our job is not the way to do it.

That is my main point. It is nothing about needing to look at it dispassionately. It is a matter of you being actually legally wrong in what you are saying about our work and does nothing to actually help your case as an illegal buyer.

BTW - disagreeing with you, not believing you, etc is not “attacking” you. It is just not agreeing or believing. Nothing more.

 

[kherg007]

Btw, my experience is the ladies in this biz that think like a businessperson do very well. They list out their costs, including hidden costs like the added expense of eating when in a hotel, makeup, gym memberships, etc., etc. They list out their intake. They are disciplined in using something like the rule of thirds - 1/3rd goes to expenses, 1/3rd goes to spend/live, 1/3rd gets socked away in a bank account or some other long term money market account. That money is never touched, until maybe down payment for a condo etc. And they stick to it. The ladies who blow it all on expensive cars, handbags, nights out, jewelry, drugs, end up disproportionately destroyed and embittered by the industry.

 

[fall]

So stop playing the narrative that puts down my job and start changing it to why you should not be criminalized. That is what we did and why it is now legit work for us. It is your time to step up and make buying legal for you and using a narrative that demeans our job is not the way to do it.

This is a twisted logic. Customers are customers. It is the business job to provide a high-quality legal product for customers to buy,. It is SPs job to make prostitution legal. But SPs like current system. Sorry girls, but you cannot have both: a grey area of work when customers are always wrong in the legal terms (in facts, customers must be involved in criminal activity to buy your services) and, at the same time, be recognised as legitimate work force.

I am not sure if there is any law against persuading a person to commit crime and/or providing him with some benefits from doing so, but if it is, while SPs cannot be charged for selling sex, any SP that advertise anywhere can be charged for (1) persuading people to perform criminal activity (buying sex) and (2) providing clients with a benefit (sex) for performing criminal activity (buying sex).

 

[Josephine Grey]

This is a twisted logic. Customers are customers. It is the business job to provide a high-quality legal product for customers to buy,. It is SPs job to make prostitution legal. But SPs like current system. Sorry girls, but you cannot have both: a grey area of work when customers are always wrong in the legal terms (in facts, customers must be involved in criminal activity to buy your services) and, at the same time, be recognised as legitimate work force.

I am not sure if there is any law against persuading a person to commit crime and/or providing him with some benefits from doing so, but if it is, while SPs cannot be charged for selling sex, any SP that advertise anywhere can be charged for (1) persuading people to perform criminal activity (buying sex) and (2) providing clients with a benefit (sex) for performing criminal activity (buying sex).

It's the second time you mention ladies like the current system. It tickles me. What statistic support your statement? Is it your experience? Because for my part, even if I slept with hypotheticaly 5000 men it would never be enough to make any kind of statement about men in general. You do not know. Please do not talk for us dear.

 

[computerguy]

The general public looks at sex workers the same way they look at drug addicts
No politician will ever step up because doing so will cost them majority of votes

Possibly but not sure. One way or another most Canadians are connected to sex work IMHO. The question is, would they admit it?

 

[computerguy]

Good post BTW.