Sex slavery article in the weekend edition of the Globe and Mail

[Charlatan]

This is the greatest argument for making the sex trade legal... Regulation and scruitiny will follow.

 

[train]

Oh and one other thing, claiming not to know someone is not of age is not a defense in court.

This applies across the board ....Asian , EE and Canadian girls as well . The most recent case of an underage girl that was documented in Toronto , as I recall , was a white Canadian girl....about a year ago I think .

Yes , you have a point BB about the extra attention , hopefully underage or anything forced is a higher priority for the vice cops . The thought of it is revolting . I have to assume that if it is in the Globe then LE has been working on this for some time if they think there is something to investigate . No arrests to date .

 

[twinkle]

Incorrect.....

Boycotting EE agencies is not the solution. All that will do is drive down price (won't choke supply).

The real solution is to get the sex trade industry legalized and SP's registered. That way the real problem (human trafficking and slavery) can be isolated and dealt with (by government agencies). Too bad politicians (and people in general) aren't brave enough to deal with the problems head on.

Sorry Seven.......

Youre assesment/assumption is incorrect regarding pricing.

If you dont believe me ask the HOBBYISTs who live and HOBBY in Las Vegas.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

This is the greatest argument for making the sex trade legal...

That might make sense to people who use this board or others who understand that the vast majority of the sex trade in Canada does not involve criminals with bad intentions. Replacing the obsolete laws from the 1800's with ones about coercion and underaged workers would make sense, and would really just be a change on paper to match what's already being enforced. It's what other countries have done.

Unfortunately this type of story tends to be used as an example by those who refuse to believe that anyone could work in this business voluntarily.

 

[luckyjackson]

My point in drawing attention to the numbers was to question the article's credibility, not rationalize the mistreatment by qualifying it as "just a few" women.

I cannot speak for the rest of the world, but I repeat that this report bears no resemblence to the reality here. That is all.

 

[seven]

Re: Incorrect.....

Sorry Seven.......

Youre assesment/assumption is incorrect regarding pricing.

If you dont believe me ask the HOBBYISTs who live and HOBBY in Las Vegas.

Hey twinkle,

I meant that if you boycott the EE/Russian girls it would just drive the price down and create conditions that are more unfavorable for them (it is a non-solution for the girls).

I agree with you that regulation/legalization would cause the price to go up b/c it would reduce exploitation significantly. The reason I mentioned regulation/legalization is b/c I think the problem needs attention, and the only way to do that is to create commissions that specifically deal with auditing sex agencies/businesses for (human rights) violations along with providing accurate information to the girls so they can make choices that are right for them. As long as the situation is ignored (remains illegal) I feel nothing can be done, except token arrests made for political gain.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

Effect of decriminalization on prices

I agree with you that regulation/legalization would cause the price to go up...

I'm not an expert on the subject, but logically I'd think the prices would likely tend to decrease slightly if there was a general decriminalization. Click-on 'rates' on this website of a downunder bordello.
www.lapetitearoma.com.au/

They're nearly identical to incalls here, a little lower if you factor in the exchange rate. BTW, prostitution is completely illegal in Las Vegas. I believe there's about 35 or 40 legal brothels in rural areas of some counties in Nevada, a very limited supply for the very large demand of the entire U.S.A., compared to several hundred available for the Aussies with a population about 2/3 of Canada's.

 

[Wired For Sound]

Re: Re: Incorrect.....

Hey twinkle,

I meant that if you boycott the EE/Russian girls it would just drive the price down and create conditions that are more unfavorable for them (it is a non-solution for the girls).

I agree with you that regulation/legalization would cause the price to go up b/c it would reduce exploitation significantly. The reason I mentioned regulation/legalization is b/c I think the problem needs attention, and the only way to do that is to create commissions that specifically deal with auditing sex agencies/businesses for (human rights) violations along with providing accurate information to the girls so they can make choices that are right for them. As long as the situation is ignored (remains illegal) I feel nothing can be done, except token arrests made for political gain.

I stand corrected. I do NOT agree with seven. Yes, prostitution needs to be decriminalized and brought under the rule of law. But, not legalized in the sense that seven indicates. Where is the need for commissions? His solution is a massive over-reaction with scant empirical data to back it up. What's necessary is this: woman or men should have the legal right to provide sexual services for a fee. Once that's recognized tort law could be used for all sorts of situations. Seven is falling into regulatory overkill, the equivalent of using a wrecking ball to kill a house fly.

 

[Wired For Sound]

My point in drawing attention to the numbers was to question the article's credibility, not rationalize the mistreatment by qualifying it as "just a few" women.

I cannot speak for the rest of the world, but I repeat that this report bears no resemblence to the reality here. That is all.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[BigBlack]

Re: Re: Re: Incorrect.....

I stand corrected. I do NOT agree with seven. Yes, prostitution needs to be decriminalized and brought under the rule of law. But, not legalized in the sense that seven indicates. Where is the need for commissions? His solution is a massive over-reaction with scant empirical data to back it up. What's necessary is this: woman or men should have the legal right to provide sexual services for a fee. Once that's recognized tort law could be used for all sorts of situations. Seven is falling into regulatory overkill, the equivalent of using a wrecking ball to kill a house fly.

If you don't agree with Seven he is probably right. He never went into any detail about the commissions, so how can you claim (very stupidly like usual) that they are over reactions. For your info they already exist. there is a big difference between codified law and how it is actually enforced. Stick with what you know Wired, talking shit, polishing your GED, and making up stories about escorts.

BBLACK

 

[james t kirk]

I don't mean to pooh pooh the seriousness of what the article describes, but for goodness sake people, use your brains.

The article says the practice is widespread, that in one place there are hardly even any girls left between the ages of 15 and 25, that girls as young as 5 and 6 are being taken. Does the first statement add up, and does the second bear the slightest resemblence to the reality that exists here in Canada? If "hundreds of thousands of teenage girls" are being sold into sex slavery every year, and the U.S. and Canada are the kind of countries they're being sent to, then where are they? I'm not tying to be funny, but simple math would tell you that Toronto alone should have a couple hundred thousand by now.

If this many girls were being abducted, Toronto, which has one of the bigger MP scenes, would be absolutely flooded with such girls. Is that the case? Believe me, I think I can make a credible claim for knowing the EE gals available in our fair city, and if you think they fit the profile given in this story you are REALLY off base. In the MP scene alone I'd say the average age of the girls has to be well over 25, hell it's probably over 35.

As I said, I don't doubt the problems described exist to some degree, and I would fully support drastic action to combat it. But when was the last time a Torontian hobbiest was offered a 12 year old east european girl? When was the last time any of us got a "sense" that the ee MP or SP we saw was being coerced into making $1000.00 a week? C'mon.

Do any of you recall reading stories about the raids on SCs and MPs? How truthfully do those tally with our experience? The media always exaggerates stories about this topic and drug seizures.

Saying that you shouldn't see an EE provider here in Toronto because of this story is like saying you should not buy a Hyundai because of starvation in North Korea.

Excellent points.

Where are these girls if they are here??

There could be "some", but I have never come across it. Most of the MPA's i have ever met are well over 25.

6 years old. Any man, any where, who wants a 6 year old should be shot. Same goes for anyone trafficing in 6 year olds. I can not imagine that people ANYWHERE, even in the most depressed areas of eastern europe would tolerate the abduction of a 6 year old. Human nature tends to go ape when a kid goes missing.

The article seeme to imply that a lot of the girls ended up in Israel. Do the Israelis turn a blind eye to this sort of thing??

If there is any kiddie prostitution rings in town, they are deeply underground. Furthermore, I could see how there will always be some pervert who would want a six year old, but in real numbers, how many are there?? I mean really, I would think that this sort of thing is a very small number. 99.9 percent of the adult male population would not want to have sex with a six year old.

 

[seven]

Re: Re: Re: Incorrect.....

I stand corrected. I do NOT agree with seven. Yes, prostitution needs to be decriminalized and brought under the rule of law. But, not legalized in the sense that seven indicates. Where is the need for commissions? His solution is a massive over-reaction with scant empirical data to back it up. What's necessary is this: woman or men should have the legal right to provide sexual services for a fee. Once that's recognized tort law could be used for all sorts of situations. Seven is falling into regulatory overkill, the equivalent of using a wrecking ball to kill a house fly.

WFS

Commissions don't need to be that overt and intrusive. If people know that they are there, then trafficking and human rights violations can be reported, and the commissions can investigate the situations if need be. The commissions could also take it upon themselves to investigate any red flag situations. I don't think that is regulatory overkill.

Haywood && bbking

Whether or not decriminalization would cause prices in the industry to go down would depend on what effect you think it would have on supply since demand would probably remain constant. Exploitation/pimps cause downward pressure on price (by forcing girls to set prices lower than market equilibrium and increasing supply). If 120,000 girls annually (on a global level) are being forced into prostitution, then that causes a HUGE increase in supply along with a decrease in price worldwide. The numbers that come to NA/Canada are unknown (and it costs more so there would be less proportionately) but I would suspect a percentage end up here. If only 1/8 of a percent of the trafficked girls came to TO (and TO is a big market) that would be 150 girls a year.

Now you have to ask yourself what are the barriers to entry for most Canadian girls with regards to prostitution. Is it moral objections/social stigmas or safety/legal ramifications? I would say it is the first, so therefore I would suspect you would see a decrease in supply (not enough to offset the exploitation effect) and an increase in price with decriminalization.

 

[twinkle]

Excellent points.

Where are these girls if they are here??

There could be "some", but I have never come across it. Most of the MPA's i have ever met are well over 25.

6 years old. Any man, any where, who wants a 6 year old should be shot. Same goes for anyone trafficing in 6 year olds. I can not imagine that people ANYWHERE, even in the most depressed areas of eastern europe would tolerate the abduction of a 6 year old. Human nature tends to go ape when a kid goes missing.

The article seeme to imply that a lot of the girls ended up in Israel. Do the Israelis turn a blind eye to this sort of thing??

If there is any kiddie prostitution rings in town, they are deeply underground. Furthermore, I could see how there will always be some pervert who would want a six year old, but in real numbers, how many are there?? I mean really, I would think that this sort of thing is a very small number. 99.9 percent of the adult male population would not want to have sex with a six year old.

I have met a lot of 15 yr old Canadian kids who look older than I do. Yes after talking to them their true age becomes apparent. And a HARD LIFE ages people!!!!!!!!! But...........with many of these EE sps as I understand they have very limited English so unless you speak their mother tongue and can have a detailed conversation........ how can one really access the level of ones maturity/age through conversation with some of these ladies??

I was wondering if these little girls as young as 6 years old are the victims that we here about that are used in child pornography on the INTERNET and videos and pictures.

I always wondered where ALL the children who ae used in INTERNET child pornography come from????And I understand that some children in North America are abducted but very very few of these children are used in child porno, as these pictures are often viewed by officials in hopes of finding pictures of missing and abducted children. So where are ALL these children coming from and why are not their identities recognized/discovered? Every child in NA comes in contact with neighbours/friends/family/teachers/doctors/etc. They seem to be nameless faces as one official said

Something to think about!

 

[twinkle]

Keep in mind..........

WFS

Exploitation/pimps cause downward pressure on price (by forcing girls to set prices lower than market equilibrium and increasing supply). If 120,000 girls annually (on a global level) are being forced into prostitution, then that causes a HUGE increase in supply along with a decrease in price worldwide.

Yes there may be an increase in SUPPLY/ESCORTS
BUT............
I have been in the biz before the internet advertising ad review boards and I would say because of the world wide web the sex industry has been opened up and exposed to a whole NEW sector of CLIENTS who NEVER would have ventured into this industry (due to lack of opportunity or lack of knowledge where to look, fear of what a lady looks like with only print advertising, and the unknown of an encounter/ fear that the lady could be a cop, etc.). How many men on this board only started seeing sps/or see a lot more and on a more regular basis.... due to the tantilizing pics and reviews they say on the internet. You men are very VISUAL people!!!!! When I moved from print advertising and put my pics on the net my biz DOUBLED and more!!!!

So the DEMAND has increased as well, trust me!!!!!!

 

[twinkle]

Re: Re: Effect of decriminalization on prices

The very moment CDN law is changed, an added number of women would enter the ranks and prices for services would fall.

Sorry, but you guys kill me with all this misinformation about the escort industry. lol

BTW I have worked in Canada and the US. Look how many Canadian ladies are touring and working in the USA as of late.

REMEMBER.........
"Customers" (clients) are never experts in an ANY industry its the 'workers'(escorts and agency owners). Sorry its just the truth.
I would never tell an account how his industry works, even though I am dating an accountant and know a bit about the industry. Of course, naturally, he knows HIS own industry more than I can ever know. And to suggest or think I do would be just arrogant. My knowledge is not hands on and based on practical REAL experience!

So.............. let me explain some things to some of you hobbyists, things that you are obviously not aware of and dont know or have thought about.........

If the industry becomes regulated/legalized I see a BIG DECREASE in ladies staying and entering the BIZ....TRUST ME!!!! I and many of my friends would only continue seeing regular clients.

WHY you may ask??????

Lets talk about how REGULATION/government involvement would affect this biz. Escorts would be FORCED and REQUIRED to REGISTER thier REAL NAMES and ADDRESSES with some governing body. WTF how many of the especially upscale escorts who have "ANOTHER LIFE" i.e. straight JOB/ CHILDREN/FAMILY?FRIENDS would do that??????? The price would be too high for women who do this part time and/or have something to loose if it was discovered that they were in the sex industy.
If I or many ladies had to give this type of info upon entering the biz we WOULD NOT BE IN THE BIZ. To me that ould be as discreet as hooking on the street in public, advertising that I am a prostitute for all the world to see. Trust me! We like PRIVACY and DISCRETION as much you guys do!!!!

So MUCH MUCH less ladies would ENTER or STAY the biz.

Therefore fewer ladies would equal higher prices as the demand for these fewer ladies would increase.

 

[twinkle]

Who said bbbj is the norm??????

To those who don't think economics effect the SP industry, I just have to remind everyone that it was only a few years ago that BB anything was unheard of, then a couple of SPs start the practice to make their service diffrent and to make more money and with the help of Boards like this can you say the practice is now more the norm. There is always a limited amount of money that person in biz chases, so you either lower price for similar services or improve the service.

More misinformation........
EXCUSE ME......you say that BBBJ is NOW the NORM???

Look bbbj and and at one time bb sex, was common place in the industry before AIDS. Women have always provided bbbj in this industry. Often in secret (I was told that on high track if it was discovered that a girl was providing BBBJ she would have gotten a beating from the other streetgirls to discourage the activity) and there were no PUBLIC internet review boards to identify the ladies who were doing it. Thats the only reason it SEEMS like it is happening more often than before, because it is talked about more thatn before. And for some women as we have discovered in this biz do not have a choice they HAVE to perform bbbj and more or else????? In the past where would you have read about what happens in a private session unless it was a friend of yours?

FYI.............
I and most of my friends do not perform BBBJ and we do just fine.
ACTUALLY there are MANY men, even on this board, who EXCLUSIVELY and SPECIFICALLY SELECT and see...... only women who provided covered ORAL and safe sex... as they are concerned with their health and dont want to take higher RISKS in this little 'hobby' and out of fear of spreading someting to their S.O.. (as we have seen in a recent thread by a hobbyist) . As we have seen MANY men on this board state that they are actually turned off if they know that a woman indiscrimantely provides BBBJ to every single client(s) she comes in contact with and then they want to kiss her, etc. . A lot of guys like/prfer to see as sp who is a little more selective. (there words not mine)

Yes it may seem more common or accessible because of this free and public review board where clients can now discuss the details of an encounter.

 

[HaywoodJabloemy]

I'm not pretending to know more about your business than you do. I just know that the relevant concrete examples in Australia seem to disprove your theory that further decriminalization would cause prices to go up. I looked at the rates listed on a few more of the legal bordello websites listed in the "Australia" thread from a couple of months ago, and they all have similar rates - the same or slightly lower than incall rates here. It looks like the outcall rates they list could be a little higher than here though.

BTW, we're getting off the original thread topic, so maybe someone should start a new one if we want to continue on this particular topic.

 

[twinkle]

BTW, we're getting off the original thread topic, so maybe someone should start a new one if we want to continue on this particular topic.

Good idea!!!!!

 

[Wired For Sound]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Incorrect.....

If you don`t agree with Seven he is probably right. He never went into any detail about the commissions, so how can you claim (very stupidly like usual) that they are over reactions. For your info they already exist. there is a big difference between codified law and how it is actually enforced. Stick with what you know Wired, talking shit, polishing your GED, and making up stories about escorts.

BBLACK

The unnamed SP Bigblackhead makes reference to is Cathy. Thanks for bringing this up -- again -- so I can put this canard to rest.

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=9488&highlight=Cathy

Check out my post that responds to 601.

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=11752&perpage=9&highlight=cathy&pagenumber=3

Here`s some irony for Bigblackhead. The fellow terbite at the top of thew page has no love for my politics and look at his views on Cathy.

As for the commission. Explain to me why it`s needed? Explain why the current laws can`t address decriminalized prostitution? A commission would be redundant -- and the legalization, as explained by Seven, would be destructive -- as Twinkle makes clear.

 

[seven]

Give me a break.

As for the commission. Explain to me why it's needed? Explain why the current laws can't address decriminalized prostitution?

Did you read the article? How can you get a handle on the situation if you don't force the girls to register?

WFS
A commission would be redundant -- and the legalization, as explained by Seven, would be destructive -- as Twinkle makes clear.

How would a commission be "as discreet as hooking on the street in public, advertising that I am a prostitute for all the world to see"? The registered list wouldn't even be made public.