Scary ... if it's true

[Hadrian]

I hope it's the Real McCoy. A little house cleaning worldwide is needed.

So cause you wink it's supposed to be funny? Ok how's this I can do some house cleaning right here in this country...

 

[Cycleguy007]

I see you have run out of reasonable things to say, and therefore, instead of pounding on the facts, you've switched to pounding on the table. You have been told that I have no connection whatsoever to any drug companies and yet you persist in this inane slur. Give it up.

No Fuji... you cast all "reason" aside when you dismissed a drug and disease free, fit and active, properly eating and healthy lifestyle that does not subscribe to your pill popping drug taking way of life as being "part of the problem".

On the other hand, in your own way, thank you for conceding the debate. The moment you walked away from reasonable responses and started in with this a fair number of people realized that you knew you were wrong, but that you didn't know how to admit it.

I conceded nothing... Apparently sarcasm is lost on you.

I look at it this way- this flu shot that you are so fond of has been rushed through "clinical testing" and is now being given (real world "testing") to the young, old and feeble members of our society first. They already discovered one chemical that was found to be harmful to pregnant women! God knows what else further testing will unveil. The "new" version has just been cleared for distribution and yet they've been using it for a number of weeks already.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...a-clears-h1n1-vaccine-for-pregnant-women?bn=1

I myself on the other hand have been testing MY lifestyle for quite a number of years now, and has been working very well for me and my family. And yet, "I" am still dismissed as being "part of the problem". At least nolabel had the courtesy to say that my lifestyle wasn't necessarily wrong and has many additional benefits beyond this discussion. He also conceded the fact that the medical industry is not entirely without fault. "witness your general practitioner mindlessly dispensing anti-biotics. So you're right to be suspicious in that sense."

The people on this board are well aware of my lifestyle since I talk about it on a daily basis. Live fit LIVESTRONG. I promote healthy living- proper eating habits, and an active lifestyle as well as good hygiene. THAT is my lifestyle... They are also well aware of your's now as well. That is your choice, and I hope it works for you.

The Ukrainians are over-reacting......
For whatever reason they are simply more panicked.

The reasonable, cool, collected, responsible approach to this pandemic is to educate people and vaccinate people to try and limit transmission...

Hopefully in this way those who still get sick can find a bed in the ICU, in which case, survival odds are high.

Thank you for making the point I've been trying to make all along! FINALLY! But it is NOT just the media with regards to The Ukraine, it is the entire frenzy that is going on with regards to this issue. And last year with the bird flu, or the spanish flu, and any of the other strains that have been discovered. I have even heard and read news reports that have suggested that H1N1 is now "less virulent" than previous strains. It's "the flu" people... that's all. In the grand scheme of things- not THAT big a deal, unless you are prone to illness to begin with. News flash- people get sick and die. While very unfortunate when it happens to a loved one, it is reality and that as they say is life.

I am by no means suggesting that people put their head in the sand (as one Terbie said), but I do not agree with the level of hype that the media, the government and people like you Fuji are PROMOTING it. Let us deal with it in the way we feel comfortable. If you wanna get a flu shot- get one... but don't be forcing anything down our throats.

 

[blackrock13]

CG;

The H1N1 shot was not rushed through. It was fast tracked and that's different. It went through all the trials designed to test a new drug here and elsewhere in the world. The fast tracking meant that every pile it was put in, it was put on top and got first look. It's status as a safe drug to use is no more compromised than any other drug marketed because of this fast tracking. The same steps are taken just the timeline is telescoped inward. The one thing that can be compromised is the making of the drug in volume.

 

[Cycleguy007]

Rushed vs fast tracked...

CG;

The H1N1 shot was not rushed through. It was fast tracked and that's different. It went through all the trials designed to test a new drug here and elsewhere in the world. The fast tracking meant that every pile it was put in, it was put on top and got first look. It's status as a safe drug to use is no more compromised than any other drug marketed because of this fast tracking. The same steps are taken just the timeline is telescoped inward. The one thing that can be compromised is the making of the drug in volume.

YIKES!!!!!

Fair enough, and thanks for making my point for me... The list of recalls that the FDA and Health Canada have done on previously "approved" drugs is rather lengthy!

http://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls/default.htm
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/index-eng.php

In their defense, (did I just say that?) I concede that the drug companies were under EXTREME pressure due to the hysteria caused by the media (and the government) in this particular case.

Disclaimer- I am not a chemist or microbiologist and can only form opinion based on what I've read.

 

[blackrock13]

YIKES!!!!!

Fair enough, and thanks for making my point for me... The list of recalls that the FDA and Health Canada have done on previously "approved" drugs is rather lengthy!

http://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls/default.htm
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/index-eng.php

In their defense, (did I just say that?) I concede that the drug companies were under EXTREME pressure due to the hysteria caused by the media (and the government) in this particular case.

Disclaimer- I am not a chemist or microbiologist and can only form opinion based on what I've read.

Pressure also comes from the public and if they had not done this they would have been crucified. It's not all media/government hype, which I have agreed does exit.

The list of all the drugs that don't have recalls is much much longer, so the system does work.

 

[Cycleguy007]

Pressure also comes from the public and if they had not done this they would have been crucified. It's not all media/government hype, which I have agreed does exit.

The list of all the drugs that don't have recalls is much much longer, so the system does work.

VERY true, but I think it is pretty clear where the fuel for this hype is coming from. The media sensationalizes everything. And the government actively promotes this.

 

[blackrock13]

VERY true, but I think it is pretty clear where the fuel for this hype is coming from. The media sensationalizes everything. And the government actively promotes this.

Careful not to get too involved in hyperbole now, not everything, but the 15 second sound bit 'is' the flavour de jour and I hate that.

One flaw the government people like to invoke is the easy fix, not the best one and that's wrong.

 

[Cycleguy007]

Careful not to get too involved in hyperbole now, not everything, but the 15 second sound bit 'is' the flavour de jour and I hate that.

Oh... "I" don't. I think I have made that abundantly clear in this thread... for most of the general public though... THAT is the news. And the media knows this and actively promotes and caters to it. Why do you think they have catchy headlines, NEWS FLASHES, and endless "coming up nexts".

 

[red]

you know, its kind of weird.....I came into the office this morning and everyone was

























DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[blackrock13]

you know, its kind of weird.....I came into the office this morning and everyone was


DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you sure they weren't just ignoring you?

 

[Malibook]

CG;

The H1N1 shot was not rushed through. It was fast tracked and that's different. It went through all the trials designed to test a new drug here and elsewhere in the world. The fast tracking meant that every pile it was put in, it was put on top and got first look. It's status as a safe drug to use is no more compromised than any other drug marketed because of this fast tracking. The same steps are taken just the timeline is telescoped inward. The one thing that can be compromised is the making of the drug in volume.

Why did the government have to guarantee to accept all liability in order to get the company to release the vaccine?

 

[blackrock13]

Why did the government have to guarantee to accept all liability in order to get the company to release the vaccine?

You're asking the wrong person. Call up the government and let us know.

 

[Malibook]

You're asking the wrong person. Call up the government and let us know.

If you are in fact in a position to claim that all of the proper procedures were followed, I figured you must be the right person to ask.

 

[Cycleguy007]

I missed this tidbit earlier...

This:

One flaw the government people like to invoke is the easy fix, not the best one and that's wrong.

In a nut shell is the basis for my reasoning!

And we all know that the "quick fix" is rarely the right one.

And THAT is why I'm not getting a flu shot.

 

[blackrock13]

This:


In a nut shell is the basis for my reasoning!

And we all know that the "quick fix" is rarely the right one.

And THAT is why I'm not getting a flu shot.

We all know no such thing.

I wasn't inferring that this was one of those quick fixes mentioned for reason I've outlined; fast tracked, yes, a quick fix for expediency, no.

I've done enough 'McGivering' in my life to know that's not true.

 

[fuji]

I conceded nothing... Apparently sarcasm is lost on you.

You conceded the debate hwen you switched to slurring me on 5-10 different threads rather than responding intelligently.

You may not realize that amounts to conceding, but it does.

I look at it this way- this flu shot that you are so fond of has been rushed through "clinical testing" and is now being given (real world "testing") to the young, old and feeble members of our society first.

Dude, it's a flu shot. Similar shots have been given to hundreds of millions of people. At this point this one has been given to tens of millions of people. Had they rolled it into the ordinary seasonal flu shot would you be making these big noise? I don't think so.

You are hyping up non-existent problems.

They already discovered one chemical that was found to be harmful to pregnant women!

You haven't got the foggiest clue what you are talking about.

Or let me put it this way: Citation please.

The reason why the adjuvanted version is not given to pregnant women is because it has not yet been proven safe. Nobody has any reason to believe it is harmful. However, as it has not been proven safe it is not given.

Your claim that there is some harmful chemical in it, that this chemical was recently discovered, etc., is all just made up by you, as is most of the rest of what you write on this topic.

Or, to put it another way, again: Citation please.

What checmical is that?

I have even heard and read news reports that have suggested that H1N1 is now "less virulent" than previous strains.

That claim is false, and has been debunked repeatedly by me on this board, with citations to peer reviewed medical journals which I have posted to you in particular many times. If you persist with making this quack claim, at this point, with the amount of evidence I've given you, directly quoted in the words of the researchers themselves, many times, well... I'd have to say you are lying intentionally.

It's "the flu" people... that's all. In the grand scheme of things- not THAT big a deal, unless you are prone to illness to begin with.[/qoute]

You are wrong. You have been shown that you are wrong, you have been provided proof on many different threads. You persist in your anti-scientific, voodoo beliefs, and you persist in trying to propagate them to others.

You most certainly are part of the problem.

Let us deal with it in the way we feel comfortable.

This isn't a new age religion, this is a question of medical fact. The flu shot lowers your risk of death and serious illness. Period.

No-one can force you to get the shot, but we are certainly going to mock your anti-scientific luddite explanations as to why you don't.

 

[blackrock13]

If you are in fact in a position to claim that all of the proper procedures were followed, I figured you must be the right person to ask.

No, because I didn't make that decision or know anyone who did.

I have been part of many field trails and applications of well documented procedures of many things and although I'm no biochemist or microbiologist, I have stood, watched and listened to many who are and learn a great deal from doing so. I've seen people on death door, with nothing to lose be given a cocktail of drugs, thought out in short order asa possible solution, and the person lives. Knowledge, blind luck, serendipity, who knows, but it worked and who am I to second guess those people. I know the recipient doesn't care. Even voodoo has some science behind it.

 

[Malibook]

No, because I didn't make that decision or know anyone who did.

Perhaps I misread your previous post.

The H1N1 shot was not rushed through. It was fast tracked and that's different. It went through all the trials designed to test a new drug here and elsewhere in the world. The fast tracking meant that every pile it was put in, it was put on top and got first look. It's status as a safe drug to use is no more compromised than any other drug marketed because of this fast tracking. The same steps are taken just the timeline is telescoped inward. The one thing that can be compromised is the making of the drug in volume.

 

[blackrock13]

Perhaps I misread your previous post.

You didn't misread anything, as what I said has been cited numerous times by medical officials, biochemists and read by me in a few different industry journals.

 

[Cycleguy007]

(With apologies to the board due to long windedness...)

You conceded the debate hwen you switched to slurring me on 5-10 different threads rather than responding intelligently.

You may not realize that amounts to conceding, but it does.

Says you… and it wasn’t so much as “slurring” you Fuji, as I said before it was more a case of sarcasm, and I wasn’t the only one. Your thoughts on the matter are well known and I was just havin some fun with you. (Since when did TERB become so fucking serious???)

Dude, it's a flu shot. Similar shots have been given to hundreds of millions of people. At this point this one has been given to tens of millions of people. Had they rolled it into the ordinary seasonal flu shot would you be making these big noise? I don't think so.

Yes, I would… I have never had a flu shot in my life, and can’t honestly remember ever having the flu. So IMHO- they are a waste of time, effort and resources to me. I never told anyone else not to get it… In fact I said if you wanna get it go ahead.

You are hyping up non-existent problems.

Says the pot calling the kettle black…

You haven't got the foggiest clue what you are talking about.

Or let me put it this way: Citation please.

The reason why the adjuvanted version is not given to pregnant women is because it has not yet been proven safe. Nobody has any reason to believe it is harmful. However, as it has not been proven safe it is not given.

Your claim that there is some harmful chemical in it, that this chemical was recently discovered, etc., is all just made up by you, as is most of the rest of what you write on this topic.

Or, to put it another way, again: Citation please.

What chemical is that?

OK, so maybe I used the wrong word. I never claimed to be a microbiologist or chemist, and perhaps I confused the word “agent” with “chemical”… (I thought the words were somewhat interchangeable, but then again, is been many years since I took grade 13 chemistry…) Regardless, they have made a new vaccine without this “adjuvant” stuff which is unproven to be safe for pregnant women. Stop splitting hairs to try and confuse people Fuji. Oh and I gave the citation in my last post…. Unless the reporters at the Toronto Star are wacko’s (which is actually debatable come to think of it… LOL) But they were getting their information from Health Canada & Chief Public Health Officer Dr. David Butler-Jones so if that is not good enough for you, well then I don’t know what is.

Canada ordered 1.8 million doses of a version of the H1N1 influenza vaccine that does not contain adjuvant – an additive that stretches supply and boosts immunity – from domestic manufacturer GlaxoSmithKline Inc. because there was a lack of data on the effects the adjuvant could have on a pregnancy.

That claim is false, and has been debunked repeatedly by me on this board, with citations to peer reviewed medical journals which I have posted to you in particular many times. If you persist with making this quack claim, at this point, with the amount of evidence I've given you, directly quoted in the words of the researchers themselves, many times, well... I'd have to say you are lying intentionally.

I heard it on the radio the other day, along with a report that said that the 13 yr old hockey player (RIP) that died had a pre-existing lung condition. I have not taken the time however to investigate further.

You are wrong. You have been shown that you are wrong, you have been provided proof on many different threads. You persist in your anti-scientific, voodoo beliefs, and you persist in trying to propagate them to others.

You most certainly are part of the problem.

This isn't a new age religion, this is a question of medical fact. The flu shot lowers your risk of death and serious illness. Period.

No-one can force you to get the shot, but we are certainly going to mock your anti-scientific luddite explanations as to why you don't.

I’m not trying to propagate “my voodoo beliefs” on anyone. I am simply providing an opinion that a healthy lifestyle is the very best defense against getting sick. I am NOT anti scientific, but I am "anti chemical". That is my opinion and just like you, I am entitled to that. I have never told anyone NOT to get the shot. I said get it if you feel it is necessary, but in my case, and in my opinion, it is a waste of time, effort and money.

And I just love how you are always asking me for citations and yet have still not provided any document stating that 20,000 deaths (in Canada) would be the cost of not having a vaccine. A claim you have made on a few occasions now.

And while you’re at it, since you claim that my lifestyle is part of the problem, can you find one report that claims that:

• eating properly is bad for ones health,
• daily exercise is discouraged for a healthy lifestyle
• 2-3 showers daily, regular hand washing and overall good personal hygiene is unhealthy.

Another tumbleweed blows by…

Until you do, I really don't see the point of carrying on with this discussion.