Save GM with bold trade stroke

WoodPeckr

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Interesting angle.
Here's a story the anti-Big 3 Auto crowd chooses to ignore....;)


Save GM with bold trade stroke

Jerry Kroth | Friday, April 17, 2009


We hear about General Motors' struggling, bailouts and bankruptcy, and we hear about how Toyota, Honda and Nissan will fill the vacuum created by any GM or Chrysler bankruptcy.

But what we don't hear ought to pique your interest: Last year Japan imported a whopping 8,000 Fords. That's right, 8,000 Fords were sold in Japan while Toyota alone sold 2 million automobiles here in America. Honda sold a million. According to Frank Fillipo of Autoblog, poor GM only sold 2,000 cars in Japan last year.

Why? The average GM car in the United States costs about $25,000, but in Japan the same car costs $50,000. A big mark up, plus tons of other obstacles and restrictions. No one calls that protectionism, but that is exactly what it is.

There is an overwhelming pressure to keep foreign imports out of Japan, whether its so-called "inferior" American cars, "infected" Washington apples or "tainted" American meat. Eleven Saturn vehicles were sold in Japan -- a car made jointly by the U.S. and Japan -- and a piddling 12 Rolls Royces. I guess Rolls Royce is considered inferior as well.

Peter Mandelson, the European Union's external trade commissioner, said last week that Japan was "the most closed developed market in the world and that imbalances ... were truly staggering." The social pressures within Japan and the complex layer-cake of bureaucratic restrictions keep all imports marginalized, not just our cars.

To be specific: The Japanese car market of 4.5 million vehicles begrudgingly allowed 6 percent of their car market to be made up of non-Japanese manufactured vehicles. In South Korea, the situation is even worse. It imported 9,000 U.S. cars but sold 800,000 cars in ours. If you think a Kia outperforms a Malibu, good luck.

Imagine a refreshing change -- a new law requiring that Japanese and Korean car manufacturers only allowed to sell the same number of cars in the United States that they reluctantly import into their countries. In other words, the playing field would finally be leveled.

GM, Ford and Chrysler would start filling the vacuum created by the sudden absence of Toyotas, Nissans and Hondas from American showrooms. If Japan could only sell to us what it purchased from us, it would be limited to 5.5 percent of the U.S. car market and not a fraction more, and Korea would be limited to a mere 2 percent.

Thousands of American jobs would be saved; thousands more created. The Rust Belt would experience a renaissance.

Instead of Detroit, let's have Toyota City take it on the chin for a change.

Sure, the Japanese would protest that they had to start letting their showroom dealers start selling Fords and Chevys at competitive prices. Maybe a trade war would start; maybe they'd cash in their T-bills, but it is just as likely that the bigwigs of Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Kia would hurriedly ask parliamentarians to open markets to allow more American cars to be sold there so more of their cars could be sold here.

Maybe Congress and the media are opposed, but in the days of Jimmy Hoffa and Walter Reuther, a healthy strike by autoworkers and sympathetic truckers could shut our country down until we saw some real action. Maybe its time to clog the turnpikes, slow interstate commerce to a crawl, and demand that fairness in trade finally be implemented. If now is not the time, well, just how close does the patient have to get to death before we decide to stop the bleeding?

Jerry Kroth is an associate professor of psychology at Santa Clara University in California and a former Detroiter.
 

WoodPeckr

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Mcluhan said:
Interesting for sure...do you think that protest would involve cashing US Treasuries?
Who know what may happen.
But it is interesting to see how Japan, Korea, etc 'protect' their Auto Industry while the USA is not allowed to do the same....;)
 

oldjones

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I suppose that driving on the left thing is all part of their dastardly protectionism. You guys sound a lot like ol' Buzz Hargrove, who used to say exactly the same stuff.

Thing is GM and FOrd couldn't compete at home in their own market. Not when the Japanese cars wre shipped over, and not when they were built this side. American and Canadian consumers looked, compared and decide the imports were better cars for the money. If the Wagoners and LaSordas don't know their own markets as well as the Japanese however are they going to compete an ocean away?

But there'll always be a tiny percentage, in any market, who will think it's cool to drive a Hummer or a Durango. And there's your coupla thousand sales, I'd bet.

Bad managers made bad decisions, and bad cars. EOM
 

onthebottom

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Japan is a very closed society, corrupt and xenophobic, but I don't think protectionist policies in the US will have any effect on that. Are there unfair taxes on US imports, or do the Japanese just prefer their own product?

I think you'd find that Japanese goods are more expensive in Japan then they are here, I know that's true of Nikons.... I bet it's true of Toyotas....

Careful when taking economic advice from a psychology prof.

OTB
 

wiggely

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let em go bankrupt and let these workers feel what it is like to work for 9.50 and hour with no benefits..they are idiots.
 

wantoplay

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wiggely said:
let em go bankrupt and let these workers feel what it is like to work for 9.50 and hour with no benefits..they are idiots.
Bankrupt does NOT mean gone. It is business as usual, BUT the CBA is dead, and a bankruptcy Judge decides how much they get.

I say fuck the greedy cocksuckers because bankruptcy is the cure for the CAW/UAW!!
 

Mcluhan

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wiggely said:
let em go bankrupt and let these workers feel what it is like to work for 9.50 and hour with no benefits..they are idiots.
Well, i'm no expert for sure in auto company wages here in Canada, but having said that i know a couple of things. I have a nephew that works for one of the Japanese companies, as an 'associate' and we discuss it at family dinners.

Honda for example originally employed 'associates' and today they are working for wages that are approximately something above $40 to $44 per hour. Honda stopped employing 'associates' quite some time ago and now hires ' contractors' who start at about $18.00/hr. Associates are encouraged to retire whenever the opportunity presents itself. (this is an over-simplified synopsis, there is complexity beyond these remarks of course) Toyota has a similar operational method. (about the same)
 

Don

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onthebottom said:
Japan is a very closed society, corrupt and xenophobic, but I don't think protectionist policies in the US will have any effect on that.
Youth is king and the Japanese youth will buy what they perceive as cool. In the land of electronic giants, it is Apple that is making waves and beating companies like Sony on their own turf.
 

JohnLarue

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As I predicted several weeks ago, Woodpeker would soon be touting tariffs and trade protectionism in order to preserve an outdated union driven economic model

Its best if you wake up and realize the world has changed & your left wing economics just will not work.

You of course will respond with your "Race to the bottom" routine, which is a poor excuse for not recognizing you have to be competitive in a global economy & the status quo is no longer acceptable
 

Mcluhan

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JohnLarue said:
As I predicted several weeks ago, Woodpeker would soon be touting tariffs and trade protectionism in order to preserve an outdated union driven economic model

Its best if you wake up and realize the world has changed & your left wing economics just will not work.

You of course will respond with your "Race to the bottom" routine, which is a poor excuse for not recognizing you have to be competitive in a global economy & the status quo is no longer acceptable
John, this is an honest question. What do you think should be done here? Give Chrysler more money? They already have 750 mil of our dough.

My feeling is they should be cut off yesterday. Make the deal or fold. In which case, let fiat buy the assets off the block, if they truly want them.

My 2 cents
 

WoodPeckr

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JohnLarue said:
As I predicted several weeks ago, Woodpeker would soon be touting tariffs and trade protectionism in order to preserve an outdated union driven economic model
LOL!
Yet that outdated model seems to be working quite fine in Japan and Korea, no?...
It's OK for them but not for the US?...:rolleyes:
 

someone

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WoodPeckr said:
LOL!
Yet that outdated model seems to be working quite fine in Japan and Korea, no?...
It's OK for them but not for the US?...:rolleyes:
Actually, it is not OK for them but if they want to screw themselves that is their business. Stupidity knows no borders. It amasses me that people like yourself go for years and years without ever tiring to learn even the basics about the issues they post about (OK, I would likely have been less brutally honest if I had had my morning caffeine fix before posting). You should note that you are making an extreme understatement when you refer to it as an “outdated model” as it was discredited about 200 years ago.

Next time, before you talk about things "working quite fine" for Japan, you might want to actually see how they are doing. Lol. If they are doing "quite fine", we are doing fantastic! You are about 20 years out of date with this claim.

BTW, I have provided a link here to the classical example of your outdated idea taken to its logical conclusion: http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html
 

oldjones

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wiggely said:
let em go bankrupt and let these workers feel what it is like to work for 9.50 and hour with no benefits..they are idiots.
Now there's a receipe for a prosperous society! Presumably these guys at $9.50 are the cream of the crop, and parts makers and other suppliers get even less? So the entire income stream of "the engine of our economy" now has 2/3 less to spend on houses, groceries, schoolbooks, hockey sticks, education for their kids…? How do you make your money wigg? How much of it do you suppose started its latest round as a car company paycheque? Are you really gonna be that happy to see 2/3 less of it coming in the door?

'Beggar thy neighbour' is not just mean and nasty, it has always been a stupid strategy. But idiots abound.
 
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WoodPeckr

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someone said:
You should note that you are making an extreme understatement when you refer to it as an “outdated model” as it was discredited about 200 years ago.
LOL!
Perhaps you should have your java before posting professor....:D
I was just passing along that .... extreme understatement referred to it as an “outdated model” .... that JohnnyLarue had first mentioned in his 'blame it all on the Unions' post, with some embellishment...
 

wileyc

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I just loved this comment

Quote

If you think a Kia outperforms a Malibu, good luck.

End Quote


A Kia isn't designed to outperform a Malibu. However you can pretty much guarantee that the Kia will be on the road long after the Malibu has been sold for scrap and it will cost a lot less to maintain.

I own a Hyundai, The new Genesis just won Car of the year in GM, Ford and Chrysler's back yard after only 30 years of being in Canada/USA. Hyundai has superseded the Quality of all of the North American manufacturers. I'm not sure if they are building it in Alabama or not (Hyundai has a few plants in the states). BTW The Genesis Coupe is designed to compete with the Mustangs etc.

I don't feel Guilty at all for buying a quality vehicle that will last long after an equivalent North American brand car is turned in for scrap. It will cost a hell of a lot less to maintain as well.

I'll sleep well at night should GM and Chrysler go under due to Management's inability to design/build a car I could trust to be reliable and last.

I almost feel for the assembly line workers who's only responsibility is to do the best they can to put this stuff together. However they are vastly overpaid for what they do. I've worked as a skilled trades person in an auto plant (as a Contractor) so I know the difference between the skill sets of someone on an assembly line and the skilled trades, there's no comparison at all. Yet they make nearly the same on an hourly basis.

I doubt the assembly line workers realize what a good gig they have. They would be lucky to make half as much outside considering the skills that they have.

As for Quality, take a look at cars of the same vintage in a parking lot (Go-Transit etc). You will see GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles with paint falling off the hood, rust along the trunk and wheel wells etc. Foreign made cars (Hyundai, Toyota, Honda etc). will be in much better condition.
 

JohnLarue

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Mcluhan said:
John, this is an honest question. What do you think should be done here? Give Chrysler more money? They already have 750 mil of our dough.

My feeling is they should be cut off yesterday. Make the deal or fold. In which case, let fiat buy the assets off the block, if they truly want them.

My 2 cents
What do I think should be done?

1. Not one more cent of government money
2 Bankruptcy proceedings initiated (the bond holders and the UAW pension gets screwed- any money in the union strike war chest goes to the pensioners). All efforts to pay suppliers are explored
3. The entire board of directors and all senior management at both Chrysler and GM should be replaced
4. 20% of the board should be former UAW / CAW members (but not the morons currently running that circus they call a union)
5. The entire CAW / UAW leadership team is replaced with a more realistic group- 20% of which are former auto middle management types
6. All director compensation should be in the form of post bankruptcy stock
7. Management salaries are capped at $200 to $250 K per year with any excess in the form of post bankruptcy stock
8. The UAW and CAW agree to total compensation 20% below the import competition. The difference could be paid in the form of post bankruptcy stock
9. The union agrees to no strikes for 5 years or two years after the companies show a cash flow profit. The constant threat of a strike must be eliminated
10. The union agrees that collective bargaining is not Dependant upon agreements with then other two companies. ie get rid of the blackmail process that lead to this mess
11. Total employment (white & blue collar) is slashed to a bear minimum level
12. Both companies and the union agree they will never again seek government assistance & agree to work together for their own security
13. All parties realize it is futile to try & control what others (ie Japan) are doing and concentrate on what they can do / offer to become more competitive. They also realize that the industry (look at India with its $2500 / car) will only become more competitive & the past is the past


I suspect it may be too late, however, this plan (so something similar) has a fighting chance
The alternative is teaching thousands of CAW / UAW members to properly flip burgers at MacDonald's
 

someone

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WoodPeckr said:
LOL!
Perhaps you should have your java before posting professor....:D
I was just passing along that .... extreme understatement referred to it as an “outdated model” .... that JohnnyLarue had first mentioned in his 'blame it all on the Unions' post, with some embellishment...
Sorry if I missread your post.
 

Gyaos

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onthebottom said:
Japan is a very closed society, corrupt and xenophobic. I think you'd find that Japanese goods are more expensive in Japan then they are here, I know that's true of Nikons.... I bet it's true of Toyotas....
Their chicks have nice pussies, though......and they (the women) want out of that country. We all know why it's more expensive in Japan, the result of 1986 super inflation and Reagan's valuation of their yen from 332 to 100 per USD.....they have a cash economy and they require that cash to be burned just to stay afloat. If all of a sudden, say 50% of their exports collapse because their people hoard what's left of their cash.......oh guess what, we have February 2009. If Japan was on Cuba, rather than off Korea, I'll betcha they'd petition to be the 51st state of The United States.

Don said:
Youth is king and the Japanese youth will buy what they perceive as cool.
Not anymore. This recession is a bad one in Japan.

Gyaos.
 

Mcluhan

New member
JohnLarue said:
What do I think should be done?

1. Not one more cent of government money
2 Bankruptcy proceedings initiated (the bond holders and the UAW pension gets screwed- any money in the union strike war chest goes to the pensioners). All efforts to pay suppliers are explored
3. The entire board of directors and all senior management at both Chrysler and GM should be replaced
4. 20% of the board should be former UAW / CAW members (but not the morons currently running that circus they call a union)
5. The entire CAW / UAW leadership team is replaced with a more realistic group- 20% of which are former auto middle management types
6. All director compensation should be in the form of post bankruptcy stock
7. Management salaries are capped at $200 to $250 K per year with any excess in the form of post bankruptcy stock
8. The UAW and CAW agree to total compensation 20% below the import competition. The difference could be paid in the form of post bankruptcy stock
9. The union agrees to no strikes for 5 years or two years after the companies show a cash flow profit. The constant threat of a strike must be eliminated
10. The union agrees that collective bargaining is not Dependant upon agreements with then other two companies. ie get rid of the blackmail process that lead to this mess
11. Total employment (white & blue collar) is slashed to a bear minimum level
12. Both companies and the union agree they will never again seek government assistance & agree to work together for their own security
13. All parties realize it is futile to try & control what others (ie Japan) are doing and concentrate on what they can do / offer to become more competitive. They also realize that the industry (look at India with its $2500 / car) will only become more competitive & the past is the past


I suspect it may be too late, however, this plan (so something similar) has a fighting chance
The alternative is teaching thousands of CAW / UAW members to properly flip burgers at MacDonald's
Thank you for this very thoughtful answer. It paints a very clear picture for me.
 
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