Discreet Dolls

Report: Five members of Canada’s 2018 WJC team told to surrender to London Police

ez$$$

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Lying on a bed masturbating is NOT consent…that is not an invitation for anybody to do anything…she can tease all she wants….and actually, she was lying on a bed sheet that was placed on the floor by the players and was asked to masturbate to put on a show.

She has NO responsibility to say NO…it is up to the players to ensure it is YES, that is legal consent

As far as your example goes, I’ve never heard a case where a guy gets drunk and says he was sexually assaulted that is a ridiculous example
How about if she is asking the players if they are going to fuck her and one of them takes her up on the offer? Is that not valid consent for the fucking?

If she claims she is down to blow them and feeling thirsty, would that not be sufficient consent for the blow jobs?

Would her overtures not be sufficient consent or do the players have to ask each time? From what I have read about the case, seems like the players side is that they thought they had a standing invitation to her based on how she was acting and what she was saying to them.
 
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Fun For All

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How about if she is asking the players if they are going to fuck her and one of them takes her up on the offer? Is that valid consent for the fucking at least?

If she claims she is down to blow them, would that not be sufficient consent for the blow jobs?

Would her overtures not be sufficient consent or do the players have to ask each time?
You’d have to be there… I can definitely see where the players were misled about consent

You tell me what you think…

 
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ez$$$

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You’d have to be there… I can definitely see where the players were misled about consent

You tell me what you think…

Unless she said she did not consent or acted in a way that would imply that she was not consenting, the players relied on her invitation as consent.

Understandable that the group dynamics adds a layer of complexity to this case, but based on the players statement that she was sexually liberal and adventurous that night, they interpreted that as consent.

As you said, unless we are there, we all have no idea of what really went down, which has to benefit the defendants.
 

Fun For All

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Unless she said she did not consent or acted in a way that would imply that she was not consenting, the players relied on her statements as consent.

Understandable that the group dynamics adds a layer of complexity to this case, but based on the players statement that she was sexually liberal and adventurous that night, they interpreted that as consent.

As you said, unless we are there, we all have no idea of what really went down, which has to benefit the defendants.
Here are some thoughts…

-if the players are using intoxication, such as the phrase “really drunk” a couple of them used to not remember does that mean they were too drunk to recognize that she might not have been consenting
-were they acting recklessly in their way such as back to back to back blowjobs to recognize consent was being given
-did she consent to Cal Foote doing the splits over her face rubbing his bag in her face
-did they take proper steps if any steps at all to ensure that she was consenting all throughout
-can Brett Howden consent for her and tell Alex Formenton that it’s OK to go into the bathroom and fuck her
-did she consent to Dillon Dube smacking her ass from behind so hard that Brett Howden left the room because he felt uncomfortable

She doesn’t have to say no just acting passive should be enough that consent is not there according to law.

If you believe her testimony, they’re all guilty. If you believe the players then it may be a different story and the players got caught lying a lot more than she has in fact she hasn’t been caught lying. They suggested she’s lying, but she hasn’t been caught with proof, credibility can be an issue there. Dube McLeod lied to the cops, lying to the cops usually don’t fare well at trial. Carter Hart on the stand was disgrace, he lied almost every time he spoke.
 
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squeezer

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"Hockey Canada's audited financial report shows it paid out nearly $3 million in multiple settlements in 2021-22. After this information was first reported by TSN, London police relaunched its criminal investigation, leading to the charges against the five former players, who all at one time had NHL careers."

She claims she got a fraction but will not say how much. So, who got most of it if it wasn't her? Lawyers?? Even with a 30% fee, she would still get a good chunk of the 3M no?
 

Fun For All

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"Hockey Canada's audited financial report shows it paid out nearly $3 million in multiple settlements in 2021-22. After this information was first reported by TSN, London police relaunched its criminal investigation, leading to the charges against the five former players, who all at one time had NHL careers."

She claims she got a fraction but will not say how much. So, who got most of it if it wasn't her? Lawyers?? Even with a 30% fee, she would still get a good chunk of the 3M no?
She didn’t claim she got a fraction her civil lawyer claimed it, I don’t know how the money got divided up that information has never been released as far as I know.

She was 25 when she got her cut of the money a couple million dollars doesn’t last long in today’s world, I don’t think that you’d be able to retire on that.
 
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ez$$$

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Here are some thoughts…

-if the players are using intoxication, such as the phrase “really drunk” a couple of them used to not remember does that mean they were too drunk to recognize that she might not have been consenting
-were they acting recklessly in their way such as back to back to back blowjobs to recognize consent was being given
-did she consent to Cal Foote doing the splits over her face rubbing his bag in her face
-did they take proper steps if any steps at all to ensure that she was consenting all throughout
-can Brett Howden consent for her and tell Alex Formenton that it’s OK to go into the bathroom and fuck her
-did she consent to Dillon Dube smacking her ass from behind so hard that Brett Howden left the room because he felt uncomfortable

She doesn’t have to say no just acting passive should be enough that consent is not there according to law.

If you believe her testimony, they’re all guilty. If you believe the players then it may be a different story and the players got caught lying a lot more than she has in fact she hasn’t been caught lying. They suggested she’s lying, but she hasn’t been caught with proof, credibility can be an issue there. Dube McLeod lied to the cops, lying to the cops usually don’t fare well at trial. Carter Hart on the stand was disgrace, he lied almost every time he spoke.
From what I have read of the case:-

- some players said they were drunk, others said they had a nice buzz bit were not drunk. Also, some of the players stated that they felt that the complainant was not too drunk to consent and consented freely.

- not sure if they were acting recklessly as the players seem to claim the complainant was consenting and demanding to essentially have a train ran on her.

- I do not think she consented to the teabagging but the players claim she was cool with it and laughing

- pretty sure they did not get consent for each and every activity but she also testified that she went into auto pilot and porn star persona mode. If she is acting like a porn star, would that not imply a certain degree of consent?

- No Brett Howden cannot provide consent on behalf of the complainant but according to the players, she was demanding cock from everyone in the room at one point

- Also, do not think she consented to the Dillon Dube smack and he was probably pretty aggressive with it, but can't say for sure. She may have been okay with the slap but was not expecting something that hard. Also, I am not sure if Brett Howden testified that the slap made him uncomfortable or he just decided to call it a wrap for the evening, but either way, it a was a good decision for him to leave.

The fact that the complainant said that she went into auto pilot and porn star mode would imply that she was acting enthusiastically at least for some of the activities so I could see the players were under at least a mistaken belief of consent.

Given all these factors along with the level intoxication and time that has elapsed (7 years exactly as of today as this occurred between June 18 to 19th, 2018), the benefit should go to the defendants.
 
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Fun For All

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From what I have read of the case:-

- some players said they were drunk, others said they had a nice buzz bit were not drunk. Also, some of the players stated that they felt that the complainant was not too drunk to consent and consented freely.

- not sure if they were acting recklessly as the players seem to claim the complainant was consenting and demanding to essentially have a train ran on her.

- I do not think she consented to the teabagging but the players claim she was cool with it and laughing

- pretty sure they did not get consent for each and every activity but she also testified that she went into auto pilot and porn star persona mode. If she is acting like a porn star, would that not imply a certain degree of consent?

- No Brett Howden cannot provide consent on behalf of the complainant but according to the players, she was demanding cock from everyone in the room at one point

- Also, do not think she consented to the Dillon Dube smack and he was probably pretty aggressive with it, but can't say for sure. She may have been okay with the slap but was not expecting something that hard. Also, I not sure if the slap made Brett Howden uncomfortable or he just decided to call it a wrap for the evening.

Given all these factors along with the level intoxication and time that has elapsed (7 years exactly as of today as this occurred between June 18 to 19th, 2018), the benefit should go to the defendants.
-how could some of the players claim they were really drunk, but insisted she wasn’t when they were all drinking together at the bar she probably was drunker than most of them
-of course the players say she was consenting, the aftermath with Hockey Canada and the Police show the players covering up by lying
-Carter Hart, in one of his numerous lies, said she was laughing when Cal Foote did the splits over her torso with his shorts on…I doubt it happened like that
-you say “according to the players”…c’mon, they’ve lied repeatedly
-Howden did say he was uncomfortable with it
-“demanding cock” as you say is what the players say and that is not consent, again, she can tease all day long
-I doubt she was consenting to a train

So…you believe the players over the girl? I believe the girls testimony is more accurate…. The players started cover-up mode early and got caught lying numerous times.

They also threw out some pretty damaging evidence that would’ve went against the players as I said before I think they’re guilty but they might get off
 

ez$$$

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-how could some of the players claim they were really drunk, but insisted she wasn’t when they were all drinking together at the bar she probably was drunker than most of them
-of course the players say she was consenting, the aftermath with Hockey Canada and the Police show the players covering up by lying
-Carter Hart, in one of his numerous lies, said she was laughing when Cal Foote did the splits over her torso with his shorts on…I doubt it happened like that
-you say “according to the players”…c’mon, they’ve lied repeatedly
-Howden did say he was uncomfortable with it
-“demanding cock” as you say is what the players say and that is not consent, again, she can tease all day long
-I doubt she was consenting to a train

So…you believe the players over the girl? I believe the girls testimony is more accurate…. The players started cover-up mode early and got caught lying numerous times.

They also threw out some pretty damaging evidence that would’ve went against the players as I said before I think they’re guilty but they might get off
Some of the players either testified or said during the police interviews that they were drunk earlier during the night but were fine at that point and the complainant seemed to give consent freely.

If as the players claim, she was demanding sex from them and they merely obliged, is that not consent, especially if her body language and demeanor was in porn star mode?

I think when you look at things objectively, there is an element of not really knowing who to believe. On balance of probability, I might side with the complainant as her side seems more believable and her testimony is under oath, but I do not think that overcomes the higher standard required for a criminal conviction.
 

Valcazar

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As far as your example goes, I’ve never heard a case where a guy gets drunk and says he was sexually assaulted that is a ridiculous example
I have.
And yes, he can claim sexual assault (in both Canada and most of the US.)

Cops are very likely not to pursue it, though.
 

Fun For All

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Some of the players either testified or said during the police interviews that they were drunk earlier during the night but were fine at that point and the complainant seemed to give consent freely.

If as the players claim, she was demanding sex from them and they merely obliged, is that not consent, especially if her body language and demeanor was in porn star mode?

I think when you look at things objectively, there is an element of not really knowing who to believe. On balance of probability, I might side with the complainant as her side seems more believable and her testimony is under oath, but I do not think that overcomes the higher standard required for a criminal conviction.
The players are saying during interviews/statements/testimony that they were drunk "really drunk" which is why they have this "memory loss" about events of that night but claim the girl wasn't...you can't have it both ways, if they can use "really drunk" as an excuse she should be able to too...

She didn't demand sex from them...she can chirp, flirt and tease and that is not consent.

I believe the girl...she is at a disadvantage, none of her friends are there and no one in the hotel is speaking up for her...the players are all speaking up and in some cases lying to protect one another...I don't trust those guys at all.
 

ez$$$

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The players are saying during interviews/statements/testimony that they were drunk "really drunk" which is why they have this "memory loss" about events of that night but claim the girl wasn't...you can't have it both ways, if they can use "really drunk" as an excuse she should be able to too...

She didn't demand sex from them...she can chirp, flirt and tease and that is not consent.

I believe the girl...she is at a disadvantage, none of her friends are there and no one in the hotel is speaking up for her...the players are all speaking up and in some cases lying to protect one another...I don't trust those guys at all.
Fair enough.

Still do not think the Crown has met their burden as this is a real challenging case for them.
 

Fun For All

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Fair enough.

Still do not think the Crown has met their burden as this is a real challenging case for them.
The girl could have behaved differently for sure, she makes a conviction tough.

I think the players acted recklessly, didn't care about consent, didn't take any appropriate steps to ensure continuous consent, some of the activity I don't see her saying was OK....that and the players with their sudden "memory loss" on issues that implicate the players but remember things that help them is a little fishy, and lying to the Police and in Hockey Canada statements, Carter Hart lying on the stand, Foote and Dube calling players to tell them "don't say that you saw what I did"...I don't trust the players at all.
 
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Fun For All

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I came across this article from the Athletic as I was reading more about the trial
I couldn’t get at the article it’s behind a wall.

I was surprised at the trial that nobody from hockey Canada came to testify. I think that they got some explaining to do and wondered why nobody from the Crown or the defence called anyone from them to the stand
 

JimmyG

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I found this part interesting.


She arrived at Jack’s that night with a group of friends. As a student at Western University, she was familiar with the popular Monday night scene and the bar’s famous dollar beer nights — but she wasn’t a regular. Beyond the handful of friends she arrived with, she didn’t know anyone else inside the bar.

She was only 18, but she used a fake ID to get inside, joining the sweaty crush of young people, the World Juniors champions among them. (The Athletic, which is not naming the woman at her request, as she fears reprisal, reviewed photos and videos confirming the woman’s presence that night and spoke to one of her friends to corroborate details of her story).

The young man she met that night was, initially to her, just a cute stranger in a bar. He told her that he played junior hockey, but she didn’t realize at the time that he was among the hockey royalty that had come to town for the gala and golf.

She drank. He drank. Then they kissed several times. He added her on Snapchat. What began as benign, however, turned more aggressive, the young woman says. He urged some friends he was with to kiss her, too. She refused. He asked her to come back to their hotel room. Not to come back to the hotel with him. To come back with them. She felt uncomfortable and declined. She had to work the next morning, she told him. Again, he asked her to come back to their hotel room. Again, she declined.

As she left a short time later, she felt discomforted. The night started fun. The drinks, the attractive young man, the kissing. But the insistence she kiss others, that she come back to their room. It felt wrong.

It seems, according to this article, that one of the players met another girl , started drinking together and kissing her. Then tried to get her to kiss his friends. Also tried to get her to come back to their room too. Luckily she refused and went back to her friends.
She didn't want to be identified because she was afraid of what would happen to her.
From this it makes it seem as though this is a pattern of behaviour , of something these guys do.
 

JimmyG

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The article doesn't paint a good picture of the players that night, how they were allowed to drink at the gala because it was a night to celebrate, they were treated like royalty etc
 

JimmyG

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Sunday evening, June 17, featured a team dinner. It was a private event limited to players and staff. This was the first time the group had been reunited since winning gold in Buffalo, and the atmosphere was convivial. At some point, a handful of players headed out to join local revelers and to bask in their adulation.

“They were on a tear,” said one person who saw them that evening.

At one point that night, a group of five players gathered to take a picture, set against a blank, sterile wall. They’re huddled together, arms around each other, subtly grinning. The photo, which was posted on social media from one player’s account, according to the person who took a screenshot of the picture, has London, Ontario, tagged as its location. Above that are two emojis: a Canadian flag and a gold medal.

The players’ Monday schedule was filled with commitments — media appearances after the announcement of the Order of Hockey in Canada, a press conference about the international sledge hockey event heading to London in December, and the ring ceremony done during a VIP cocktail hour, culminating with the Hockey Canada Foundation Gala that night.

The gala was staged at RBC Place London, the former London Convention Centre, and included the largest attendance garnered to date — roughly 1,000 people. Tickets were sold out well in advance and over $1 million was raised. It kicked off around 7 p.m. Jennifer Botterill emceed the event along with sports broadcaster Rod Black. An itinerary for the evening was superimposed upon a team picture of the World Juniors team. There would be a Local Londoners’ Hot Stove, a live auction and recognition of the Order of Hockey in Canada inductees, which included Olympic gold medal-winning coach Mike Babcock, Hall of Famer Danielle Goyette, and Ryan Smyth, who earned the nickname Captain Canada for his bevvy of gold medal finishes representing Canada on the international stage.

Attendees took red-carpet photos and posed in front of banners festooned with some of Hockey Canada’s biggest partners; one backdrop showed the logo for BFL, Hockey Canada’s insurance broker. One picture taken was of four players from the World Juniors team, posing with their fists outstretched, championship rings on their right hands.

RBC Place was filled with tables covered in cloth and beset with candles and hydrangea-filled centerpieces. A player or staff member was stationed at some tables so attendees could capture a detail from that World Juniors — a funny anecdote about the bus ride in Buffalo, an unknown detail about the power play scheme, a bit of trash-talking exchanged with the Swedes.

Wine was available to the whole table, and it is unlikely anyone would have looked askance if one of the players, who ranged in age from 18 to 20, had indulged in a glass of red to go along with his steak. It was a celebratory event; this was not the environment for teetotaling. (The legal drinking age in Ontario is 19.) One woman in attendance said some players were drinking heavily at the dinner, and that one player commented that she “had a tight a–” in her dress.

The gala concluded around 10 p.m. Many staff members retired early, exhausted from a long day. Some women’s hockey players went back to the hotel bar at the London Armouries to catch up over drinks. Some Hockey Canada and London Knights staff members and other gala attendees broke off to go to Joe Kool’s, a well-known hockey pub on Richmond Street where Knights team photos and NHL memorabilia cover the walls. Some members of the World Juniors team were there as well, gathered in a back room. One person at Joe Kool’s watched as several players in the back room became increasingly inebriated.
 

JimmyG

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It was carte blanche,” the person said.

Several players left Joe Kool’s, walking down Richmond Street and arriving at Jack’s, a multi-level establishment with security out front, a patio and smoking pen out back and a throbbing mob of college students and young locals inside. Even in June — when many students are away and it’s the offseason for the CHL — Jack’s signature Dollar Beer Mondays draws a crowd.

“That’s the big place (you go),” said one local server.

On a recent Monday night, one woman almost fell down the staircase because the ground was slick with spilled beer. There was vomit in the corner of the landing where she tried to steady herself.

That evening in 2018, the players that were let in — at least one was turned away for being too young to drink, according to multiple people who saw the player return to Joe Kool’s — would’ve immediately been met with a sweaty crush of bodies and the smell of sour beer and cheap lip gloss. Clear cups of beer and shots poured into neon pink ramekins cluttered tables and ledges throughout the bar’s crowded first floor.

As packed as it was, they quickly owned the place, and the players kept the rounds flowing through the night, spending freely and handing out drinks to those around them.
 
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