REOPENING AT STAGE 2, with recommendations for Coordinated Toronto Reopening Strategy

[squeezer]

As some have said this thread has probably outlived its usefulness - but I've got more time on my hands than usual, so ...

Sorry that you find my comments fear mongering. Not my intent at all. I'm not a medical professional, but my work brings me into contact with a variety of medical professionals, some of whom I've come to know well and some of whom have become friends. I know both doctors and nurses who are working in hospital settings and have become sadly very familiar with COVID. I also have some contact with pharmacists and folks who work with medical insurance. To be honest, I trust them more than I trust politicians or even public health officials. If they were offering advice or information contrary to what we hear from politicians or public health officials, I'd listen to them. Generally speaking, though, they're not. I write a lot of case reports in my work, so I'll provide a short report-style summary of basically what I've picked up from them. Some of it is basic common sense, but it's a summary; not scare mongering. Whether you listen or not - well, I don't really give a shit.

This is not influenza. Some of the symptoms are similar (some of the milder symptoms are also similar to the common cold) but the flu virus and SARS-CoV-2 are completely different viruses and are not related. As I was told by a doctor a collapsed lung can cause symptoms very similar to a heart attack - but they're not at all the same thing. This virus doesn't seem to have infected as many people as was feared would happen and health care systems have been worked hard but have not been overwhelmed. That does not mean that the lockdown was unnecessary or that it was an over-reaction. It's probably because of the lockdown that infection rates are as low as they seem to be - with the caveat that there still aren't enough tests being done to know the infection rate for sure - especially testing of asymptomatic people, who could have a devastating impact if the lockdown were just ended and everyone was sent back to work. One made this comparison: "It's like going scuba diving and after a few minutes in the water deciding that you're breathing well enough so you don't need an oxygen tank." The virus is extremely contagious - and, as with most viruses, it's most contagious inside, in a closed environment with recirculated air - which, again, is why a lot of work places are potentially big breeding grounds for it. It's why nursing homes are so vulnerable to the disease. It's why places like gyms and churches, etc. have some big challenges in terms of re-opening safely. I've heard concerns about the city not being able to safely provide cooling centres for people in the event of a major heat wave. The smaller the workplace the likelier the odds of virus transmission. So a Costco warehouse with limited numbers allowed in is potentially safer than an office with only a few people working in it. There's uncertainty about the effectiveness of social distancing indoors because of air being circulated through cooling or heating systems. There doesn't seem to be enough information about how easily the virus spreads outside. On Trinity-Bellwoods for example the medical folks I've talked to have literally ranged from "It's no big deal because they were outside and it won't spread that well outside," to "This is a disaster in the making." Everyone agrees that the older you are the more likely you are to die or become seriously ill - but that's the case with most diseases. I have been told that in spite of what we're hearing there is a surprising (but still admittedly small in terms of percentages) number of young people who are starting to get more seriously ill, and they're not too sure why. Is it an anomaly or a trend? Time will tell. In general, symptoms seem worse than were originally expected once a person needs hospitalization. It's as if the symptoms "cascade" is how one person put it to me - although that again isn't unlike some other diseases. The insurance industry isn't getting much notice in this but they're running scared. A huge surge of COVID could have a devastating effect on health insurance providers - who play a big role in the Canadian economy even though we have public health insurance. There's still a lot that private insurance companies cover and the potential payouts are enormous if things turn bad. This pandemic could lead to higher health insurance premiums. They will be advocating for a longer lockdown, but basically, most medical people seem to support a gradual re-opening of things over the rest of the year - with apprehension about the expected second wave and what its impact will be.

Like I say - a summary of conversations I've had over the weeks since this has started. Take it or leave it. Makes no difference to me.

Exactly the same as what I've been hearing from real folks in the medical field.

 

[Saskatchewan]

Firstly, this thread has drifted so far off of its original moorings, I am surprised the mods have not pulled out their scalpel and moved several posts into it's own thread, which could be called something like "Differing Opinions on Ending The Lockdown" or something like this. I am saddened that very good posts by the owner of Allegra have been completely swamped by the thread drift.

Dentists and RMT's are now allowed to resume service I read today in the local paper. That should be a topic of discussion actually related to the intended topic of this thread.

Having said that, and considering we are rudderless and in the middle of the Atlantic, I'll reluctantly engage in the thread drift myself

This virus doesn't seem to have infected as many people as was feared would happen and health care systems have been worked hard but have not been overwhelmed. That does not mean that the lockdown was unnecessary or that it was an over-reaction. It's probably because of the lockdown that infection rates are as low as they seem to be -

No argument here. Initially the lockdown seemed necessary. Italy put on a really good show with all those wooden coffins. I thought to myself 'Oh shit, this could be bad'. After about a month though, with more information at hand, I started questioning the value of the lockdown. The purpose of the lockdown was to limit the spread and death rate rate, to control it's pace. Not to eliminate it, as that would be impossible.

Exactly the same as what I've been hearing from real folks in the medical field.

Okay, and out of curiosity, do you have a Medical Doctor degree or a Bachelors of Surgery and Medicine? If not, how is it you are in contact with folks in the medical community?

 

[whitewaterguy]

Allegra’s rollout process, in the view of many readers , seems to have scored a bit high on the bullshit meter, thus a divergence of opinions propelled the the drift.

 

[fifthgrader]

Will the dental service, physiotherapy and hair services be the same in comparison to before the pandemic? The answer is a clear no. Personnel in the industry are taking extra precaution procedures and extra personal protective equipment to compensate the risk of contacting multiple individuals a day. These industries are able to maintain operations under these circumstance. I don't believe the sex industry can match the same level of precautions and protective equipment while maintaining the same level of service; however, I am opened to have my mind changed.

The government is currently pushing the limit of 'how far we can reopen without collapsing our healthcare system?'. As grown adults, it is up to yourself to determine whether your surrounding is high-risk.

Daily confirmed cases is important. It indicates the presence of virus and the degree of likely hood. However, the percentage of confirm cases is less credible depending on the context. Depending on the testing strategy of the government, whether it is to test 'people with symptoms' or 'front line workers' or 'whoever' or 'whoever, every week', it might change the meaning. But whether the curve is a positive or negative derivative or equilibrium is more important.

I won't continue this hobby until the virus is gone completely.

 

[Rako3]

Again, numbers game. If I'm locked in an airplane for a thirteen hour flight with 150 strangers, even with recirculated air being scrubbed by HEPA filters, I'm going to be a little nervous. If I'm in a crowded entertainment plaza with thousands of people milling about, that's a lot of potential contact even wearing a mask (and a lot of people don't wear the masks.) Whereas sharing air with ONE person, who I happen to be boning repeatedly and enthusiastically for an hour, not so much. I know she's seen a few clients today, and over the past two weeks, and she may have encountered someone with covid, and she may have caught it and be contageous herself. But statistically the odds are still very low. A nurse, a grocery checkout worker, an Uber driver are all encountering a lot more people and running higher risks. And if I'm going to roll the dice, at least I'm doing it with someone cute and naked.

 

[Allegra Escorts]

UPDATE: Doug Ford has a press conference scheduled for 1pm today, to announce the details of Ontario's reopening plan for Stage 2. We will update our own reopening plan later this afternoon.

 

[canada-man]

Again, numbers game. If I'm locked in an airplane for a thirteen hour flight with 150 strangers, even with recirculated air being scrubbed by HEPA filters, I'm going to be a little nervous. If I'm in a crowded entertainment plaza with thousands of people milling about, that's a lot of potential contact even wearing a mask (and a lot of people don't wear the masks.) Whereas sharing air with ONE person, who I happen to be boning repeatedly and enthusiastically for an hour, not so much. I know she's seen a few clients today, and over the past two weeks, and she may have encountered someone with covid, and she may have caught it and be contageous herself. But statistically the odds are still very low. A nurse, a grocery checkout worker, an Uber driver are all encountering a lot more people and running higher risks. And if I'm going to roll the dice, at least I'm doing it with someone cute and naked.

living in fear is not good way to live your life

 

[bebe]

UPDATE: Doug Ford has a press conference scheduled for 1pm today, to announce the details of Ontario's reopening plan for Stage 2. We will update our own reopening plan later this afternoon.

Hope he has a date but all morning the news has been reporting no date will be given. More of an outline of what he plans to allow to reopen. He ought to give a date.

All morning CBC is reporting Montreal is reopening and that Ontario is lagging behind. Makes Ford look weak since the powerhouse of Ontario appears to be stalling.

 

[farquhar]

UPDATE: Doug Ford has a press conference scheduled for 1pm today, to announce the details of Ontario's reopening plan for Stage 2. We will update our own reopening plan later this afternoon.

Well, Sassy Angels decided to upstage you and open as of today; and if guys want to know what their Health & Safety protocols are, they have to send an e-mail

 

[Allegra Escorts]

As noted, Premier Ford has not announced a date for the GTA moving into Stage 2 as of yet, so we will hold off on further announcements until then. Other parts of Ontario are opening on Friday June 12th, but Toronto and the surrounding municipalities will not be.

Premier Ford has indicated that each region will be assessed on a weekly basis, and if there is reasonable progress, then things will be allowed to open on the following Friday; accordingly, we will assess things on a weekly basis as well. Based on that, the GTA will not be reopening until June 19th at the earliest, so our reopening will not be any earlier than that.

Please stay safe.

 

[canada-man]

 

[canada-man]

 

[xmontrealer]

In a tiny bit of encouragement one of the businesses mentioned in the announcement today as being allowed to open in Stage 2, whenever that does happen in Toronto, is "day spas". I assume that will include semi-legits and holistics, and hopefully even rub & tugs!

 

[bebe]

Opening of the daycares, with restrictions, is a fantastic sign this BS is coming to an end.

Starting Stage 2 in the Golden Horse cannot be far behind. Why reopen daycares if you have no plans to send hundreds of thousands of people back to work.

Hope the agencies are ready for the stampede.

 

[squeezer]

Opening of the daycares, with restrictions, is a fantastic sign this BS is coming to an end.

Starting Stage 2 in the Golden Horse cannot be far behind. Why reopen daycares if you have no plans to send hundreds of thousands of people back to work.

Hope the agencies are ready for the stampede.

It is only 10 people in a daycare. That is 8 kids and 2 workers. Does that sound like hundreds of thousand of people heading back to work? LMAO

Now ask yourself this, how is this even feasible for a daycare to open its doors?

https://globalnews.ca/news/7043162/ontario-child-care-centres-reopening-plan/

Lecce is banking on most parents working from home and not wanting to send their children to a daycare.

 

[bebe]

How did Lecce become a Minister?

Can’t really say what I think of him, I might bet banned.

But every time I see his face on TV I want to puke

 

[squeezer]

How did Lecce become a Minister?

Can’t really say what I think of him, I might bet banned.

But every time I see his face on TV I want to puke

Come on BEBE, he's a well-dressed dude. That blue suit today was a very nice suit. I have one just like it. I didn't like his tie at all.

Here, take a look and see if you can control yourself from not puking please.

The LECCE "ooooooooh, so these are the amigos Squeezer is telling me about" look.

 

[craig_hoxton]

I think there'll be a HUGE rush for services such as haircuts and SP visits. I might have to wait just a few more weeks after re-opening for those services.

 

[Allegra Escorts]

Hopefully the second-to-last update! All regions of Ontario except Toronto, Windsor, and Peel region are moving to Stage 2 on Friday, June 19th, and the hope is that the remaining three regions will move to Stage 2 on Friday, June 26th.

I personally think it's the right move, we've been seeing a downward trend for a few weeks now, and testing seems to be running at capacity. Might as well give it one more week to make sure the Toronto numbers are down to stay, before opening everything up.

We're going to prepare for an opening on June 26, and we'll keep following the news ahead of Ontario's next reopening announcement on Monday, June 22nd.

 

[hedo rick]

Well, Sassy Angels decided to upstage you and open as of today; and if guys want to know what their Health & Safety protocols are, they have to send an e-mail

Shockingly irresponsible.

Here’s one gem from their website:

if one of our Angels does test positive to COVID-19, we do not intend to contact Public Health