Who remembers agencies, like Pink Kitty, Guilty Pleasures, and Mirage? Are there any agencies currently operating in Ottawa at all?
Remember Agencies?
- Thread starter flipmatic
- Start date
I prefer independents as I like knowing they are getting paid, but for some reason they are more expensive and demand deposits. I guess an agency offers security for both provider and client? I don't know. Tough call. I was a regular with an independent who once worked for a reputable agency and she did not speak to well of that experience. But then again, I was paying at least $100 more for the hour so of course bring independent was more rewarding
Pink Kitty was great, I used them before they got a set location. I enjoyed knowing that I'd be seeing a legit and good looking SP in a safe location for a decent donation. You called the main number and they set you up. I also enjoyed the two Asian agencies for the same reasons. Im always hopeful that Toronto or Montreal interests will set up a few agencies here, theres a lot of money being left on the table.
Agencies have a high failure rate in Ottawa.
Too many people willing to settle for a handy here?
Ahhh Pink Kitty, good memories 
No, agencies usually offer less security unfortunately, since they don't actually care about the girls who work for them, they only care about the money. They put my life and the other girls who worked there lives at risk basically every day, and would get angry at us if we expressed feeling unsafe.
My first client with Pink Kitty was a blacklisted client that they knew couldn't see any of the regular girls there, so they always sent him to new girls since they didn't know he was blacklisted or dangerous.
If anyone ever wants any fun behind the scenes stories from PK I'm always happy to spill, they definitely ran themselves to the ground that agency did
Though I still have so much love for all the girls I worked with back then, they were a wonderful crew; Karmin, April, Paige.. We used to have so much fun!
The Ottawa market is actually the perfect spot for agencies, but the only issue is that most who run them usually don't care about their workers at all, and when that's the case you end up with a high turnover rate, unreliable reputation and overall a business model that's guaranteed to die out.
At the time when I worked at PK Lisa was running it, and she either had no idea what she was doing or didn't care and refused to take any business help from the girls, so eventually we all went independent when it was clear they couldn't advertise us properly, would bait and switch or have us no show clients often, and wouldn't even answer the phones most days.
An agency run by and for sex workers would be a huge difference, but with the legalities and all the start up necessary, most don't want to take the risk of starting one up.
A lot of independents will speak badly of agencies, and as someone who worked at one I completely understand why, but the fact is that agencies can actually serve a purpose in this industry, if done as ethically as possible.
I sometimes miss the days when I could just clock in, never have to worry about phones or texting or time wasters, just show up, work, then clock out and go home at the end of your shift like a regular job
No, agencies usually offer less security unfortunately, since they don't actually care about the girls who work for them, they only care about the money. They put my life and the other girls who worked there lives at risk basically every day, and would get angry at us if we expressed feeling unsafe.
My first client with Pink Kitty was a blacklisted client that they knew couldn't see any of the regular girls there, so they always sent him to new girls since they didn't know he was blacklisted or dangerous.
If anyone ever wants any fun behind the scenes stories from PK I'm always happy to spill, they definitely ran themselves to the ground that agency did
Though I still have so much love for all the girls I worked with back then, they were a wonderful crew; Karmin, April, Paige.. We used to have so much fun!
The Ottawa market is actually the perfect spot for agencies, but the only issue is that most who run them usually don't care about their workers at all, and when that's the case you end up with a high turnover rate, unreliable reputation and overall a business model that's guaranteed to die out.
At the time when I worked at PK Lisa was running it, and she either had no idea what she was doing or didn't care and refused to take any business help from the girls, so eventually we all went independent when it was clear they couldn't advertise us properly, would bait and switch or have us no show clients often, and wouldn't even answer the phones most days.
An agency run by and for sex workers would be a huge difference, but with the legalities and all the start up necessary, most don't want to take the risk of starting one up.
A lot of independents will speak badly of agencies, and as someone who worked at one I completely understand why, but the fact is that agencies can actually serve a purpose in this industry, if done as ethically as possible.
I sometimes miss the days when I could just clock in, never have to worry about phones or texting or time wasters, just show up, work, then clock out and go home at the end of your shift like a regular job
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The first 2 are faaaaaar from being full time agencies.
The 3rd one is TBD on many levels. Let us pray and hope.
Amber, while strictly an agency as I see it, what about organizations like OIC?Ahhh Pink Kitty, good memories
No, agencies usually offer less security unfortunately, since they don't actually care about the girls who work for them, they only care about the money. They put my life and the other girls who worked there lives at risk basically every day, and would get angry at us if we expressed feeling unsafe.
My first client with Pink Kitty was a blacklisted client that they knew couldn't see any of the regular girls there, so they always sent him to new girls since they didn't know he was blacklisted or dangerous.
If anyone ever wants any fun behind the scenes stories from PK I'm always happy to spill, they definitely ran themselves to the ground that agency did
Though I still have so much love for all the girls I worked with back then, they were a wonderful crew; Karmin, April, Paige.. We used to have so much fun!
The Ottawa market is actually the perfect spot for agencies, but the only issue is that most who run them usually don't care about their workers at all, and when that's the case you end up with a high turnover rate, unreliable reputation and overall a business model that's guaranteed to die out.
At the time when I worked at PK Lisa was running it, and she either had no idea what she was doing or didn't care and refused to take any business help from the girls, so eventually we all went independent when it was clear they couldn't advertise us properly, would bait and switch or have us no show clients often, and wouldn't even answer the phones most days.
An agency run by and for sex workers would be a huge difference, but with the legalities and all the start up necessary, most don't want to take the risk of starting one up.
A lot of independents will speak badly of agencies, and as someone who worked at one I completely understand why, but the fact is that agencies can actually serve a purpose in this industry, if done as ethically as possible.
I sometimes miss the days when I could just clock in, never have to worry about phones or texting or time wasters, just show up, work, then clock out and go home at the end of your shift like a regular job
Sorry, meant to say while NOT strictly...Ahhh Pink Kitty, good memories
No, agencies usually offer less security unfortunately, since they don't actually care about the girls who work for them, they only care about the money. They put my life and the other girls who worked there lives at risk basically every day, and would get angry at us if we expressed feeling unsafe.
My first client with Pink Kitty was a blacklisted client that they knew couldn't see any of the regular girls there, so they always sent him to new girls since they didn't know he was blacklisted or dangerous.
If anyone ever wants any fun behind the scenes stories from PK I'm always happy to spill, they definitely ran themselves to the ground that agency did
Though I still have so much love for all the girls I worked with back then, they were a wonderful crew; Karmin, April, Paige.. We used to have so much fun!
The Ottawa market is actually the perfect spot for agencies, but the only issue is that most who run them usually don't care about their workers at all, and when that's the case you end up with a high turnover rate, unreliable reputation and overall a business model that's guaranteed to die out.
At the time when I worked at PK Lisa was running it, and she either had no idea what she was doing or didn't care and refused to take any business help from the girls, so eventually we all went independent when it was clear they couldn't advertise us properly, would bait and switch or have us no show clients often, and wouldn't even answer the phones most days.
An agency run by and for sex workers would be a huge difference, but with the legalities and all the start up necessary, most don't want to take the risk of starting one up.
A lot of independents will speak badly of agencies, and as someone who worked at one I completely understand why, but the fact is that agencies can actually serve a purpose in this industry, if done as ethically as possible.
I sometimes miss the days when I could just clock in, never have to worry about phones or texting or time wasters, just show up, work, then clock out and go home at the end of your shift like a regular job
I think everyone knows what I think about OIC at this point
For background: I helped manage and eventually build up the Indycompanion collective from 2015-2018(we built it from 20 members to 120+ within those years, it was amazing!), and also was one of the starting members alongside a handful of others who created the slack and group that would eventually become OIC(though I left before it had a name yet).
I voluntarily left both groups in 2017/2018 and tried to reapply years after and was refused with no reasoning why from both groups.
Overall, I have a solid amount of experience at this point from both being a member of a collective, running a collective and eventually being an ostracized outsider of them also.
With all that in mind, collectives are actually a vitally important and very much needed resource in different cities and communities - if run properly, they provide community, shared warnings lists, advertising, and safety to members of the sex worker community in ways that is so necessary to not just survive, but also thrive in this industry.
However, the issues that we end up having with collectives like OIC and Indycompanion(and some in the US are like this as well), is that they ultimately become like cliques in high school - run by the popular folks, usually those with more power and privilege and their friends.
Collectives like OIC and Indycompanion have a rich history of gatekeeping their safety resources and access to community to members only, which might not sound too bad until you realize that they have no due process for adding or removing members, sex workers can be kicked out or refused access purely because someone in the collective have a personal issue with them, and there is many instances of members being bullied out of the collectives if they speak up or fight with any members at the top, meaning they get to decide who has access to safety and who doesn't, usually on personal biases.
This is immensely dangerous given that isolation in this industry ultimately puts us in vulnerable and sometimes life-threatening positions.
(Indycompanion and OIC have since made their blacklists more accessible in the last two years since this issue started being talked about more openly, so will give them credit there)
The collectives we have locally right now aren't run in a way that's actually a community collective, but instead exclusive cliques that end up benefitting some while harming or isolating many, many others within the sex worker community.
So yes, collectives are very important IF done ethically, same as with agencies in my opinion.
We're seeing exactly what happens when collectives like OIC allow already privileged sex workers to have too much unchecked power in a big group like that: they end up putting their community at risk in the end and ultimately do the opposite of what they're supposed to achieve, especially when members become too afraid to speak up when they see wrong happening within.
(For those who missed the drama on twitter and since OIC kept things tight-lipped: OIC protected a known predator and rapist, Romulus, and allowed him to be a respected member of their collective for well over a year, despite being told about what he's done and that he was on blacklists for his assaults. Because of this, he was able to prey on and assault many more within and outside of the collective for the whole year after they knew about the warnings with the respected reputation of OIC behind him. Why did they throw out the warnings about him? Because they came from me and friends of mine and they deemed their accounts of rape and assault as untrustworthy because of this. Nathalie, who was the show-runner of OIC, has had a personal grudge against me since 2017 and because of this she refused to let anyone act on the warnings of Romulus because they came from me and my friends, and ended up causing great harm within the community because of her personal issues with me. And since there's no form of accountability within the collective, everything got swept under the rug, no one within the collective would have even found out if myself and others hadn't started making noise publicly about the issue.)
And that's only one example of the many issues that come up when collectives are run exclusively instead of for the community, there could be a whole expose written on the harms local collectives have done to community members honestly
(and I will be the first to admit that I took part in some harmful actions to individual members when I was managing Indycompanion also, so when I'm casting the stone at these groups, I'm also aware of exactly when I need to be pointing the finger back at myself for my part as well. I speak up to also keep myself accountable for my past mistakes that harmed others and to make sure I don't repeat them.)
At the end of the day, it all boils down to this: none of the collectives that currently exist in our communities locally are actually collectives at all, they are just a community group. A collective would mean that every single member holds equal weight within the space, because it's a *collective* of individuals working together(a co-op if you will)..
When you have members who have no idea what decisions are being made, have little or no say in collective matters, there's no transparency or process for any actions the collective take and there's people at the top in charge with nothing in place to keep them accountable and in check, you end up with just a clique-y club instead of an actual collective.
Sorry for the huge ramble I just went on with this question, but boy oh boy do I have thoughts on this topic and I'm glad it came up!
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That's an interesting perspective on sex worker agencies and collectives. I know in the local MA scene several of the spas are run by sex workers, and there are still accusations of unethical and dangerous business practices.
I wonder if there are better examples in Montreal or Toronto. I remember reading about an agency in Montreal run by sex workers which had a good reputation, but that was a long time ago (I can't remember the name).
I wonder if there are better examples in Montreal or Toronto. I remember reading about an agency in Montreal run by sex workers which had a good reputation, but that was a long time ago (I can't remember the name).
Amber.........WOW!I think everyone knows what I think about OIC at this point
For background: I helped manage and eventually build up the Indycompanion collective from 2015-2018(we built it from 20 members to 120+ within those years, it was amazing!), and also was one of the starting members alongside a handful of others who created the slack and group that would eventually become OIC(though I left before it had a name yet).
I voluntarily left both groups in 2017/2018 and tried to reapply years after and was refused with no reasoning why from both groups.
Overall, I have a solid amount of experience at this point from both being a member of a collective, running a collective and eventually being an ostracized outsider of them also.
With all that in mind, collectives are actually a vitally important and very much needed resource in different cities and communities - if run properly, they provide community, shared warnings lists, advertising, and safety to members of the sex worker community in ways that is so necessary to not just survive, but also thrive in this industry.
However, the issues that we end up having with collectives like OIC and Indycompanion(and some in the US are like this as well), is that they ultimately become like cliques in high school - run by the popular folks, usually those with more power and privilege and their friends.
Collectives like OIC and Indycompanion have a rich history of gatekeeping their safety resources and access to community to members only, which might not sound too bad until you realize that they have no due process for adding or removing members, sex workers can be kicked out or refused access purely because someone in the collective have a personal issue with them, and there is many instances of members being bullied out of the collectives if they speak up or fight with any members at the top, meaning they get to decide who has access to safety and who doesn't, usually on personal biases.
This is immensely dangerous given that isolation in this industry ultimately puts us in vulnerable and sometimes life-threatening positions.
(Indycompanion and OIC have since made their blacklists more accessible in the last two years since this issue started being talked about more openly, so will give them credit there)
The collectives we have locally right now aren't run in a way that's actually a community collective, but instead exclusive cliques that end up benefitting some while harming or isolating many, many others within the sex worker community.
So yes, collectives are very important IF done ethically, same as with agencies in my opinion.
We're seeing exactly what happens when collectives like OIC allow already privileged sex workers to have too much unchecked power in a big group like that: they end up putting their community at risk in the end and ultimately do the opposite of what they're supposed to achieve, especially when members become too afraid to speak up when they see wrong happening within.
(For those who missed the drama on twitter and since OIC kept things tight-lipped: OIC protected a known predator and rapist, Romulus, and allowed him to be a respected member of their collective for well over a year, despite being told about what he's done and that he was on blacklists for his assaults. Because of this, he was able to prey on and assault many more within and outside of the collective for the whole year after they knew about the warnings with the respected reputation of OIC behind him. Why did they throw out the warnings about him? Because they came from me and friends of mine and they deemed their accounts of rape and assault as untrustworthy because of this. Nathalie, who was the show-runner of OIC, has had a personal grudge against me since 2017 and because of this she refused to let anyone act on the warnings of Romulus because they came from me and my friends, and ended up causing great harm within the community because of her personal issues with me. And since there's no form of accountability within the collective, everything got swept under the rug, no one within the collective would have even found out if myself and others hadn't started making noise publicly about the issue.)
And that's only one example of the many issues that come up when collectives are run exclusively instead of for the community, there could be a whole expose written on the harms local collectives have done to community members honestly
(and I will be the first to admit that I took part in some harmful actions to individual members when I was managing Indycompanion also, so when I'm casting the stone at these groups, I'm also aware of exactly when I need to be pointing the finger back at myself for my part as well. I speak up to also keep myself accountable for my past mistakes that harmed others and to make sure I don't repeat them.)
At the end of the day, it all boils down to this: none of the collectives that currently exist in our communities locally are actually collectives at all, they are just a community group. A collective would mean that every single member holds equal weight within the space, because it's a *collective* of individuals working together(a co-op if you will)..
When you have members who have no idea what decisions are being made, have little or no say in collective matters, there's no transparency or process for any actions the collective take and there's people at the top in charge with nothing in place to keep them accountable and in check, you end up with just a clique-y club instead of an actual collective.
Sorry for the huge ramble I just went on with this question, but boy oh boy do I have thoughts on this topic and I'm glad it came up!
First, I had been unaware of your involvement with collectives and your history with OIC, so my query was definitely NOT meant as baiting. I just threw in OIC as an example. So, my apologies - I’ve either been living under a rock or simply not paying adequate attention and that’s my bad. I’ve certainly been around long enough to know better.
Second, once again thank you for opening up and revealing your experience and feelings. Again, that takes guts and you have my admiration.
Third, I found your post thought provoking and very well written. I’m older and a traditionalist when it comes to proper communications - well done.
I wish you all the best.
Thanks for your perspective Amber! I for one would love the behind the scenes stories on Pink Kitty. On the surface, they seemed to be a pretty well-run agency, and I was under the mistaken impression that they were more supportive of their workers as I seem to remember the owner (PK Jason?) arguing with clients on the boards when there was a dispute. Would like to hear the story on how it all ended!
Couple of threads on the final incarnations of Pink Kitty. Here's one
Everything I said in 2017 still goes along with what I said in this thread as well.Amber I have no dogs in this race but why did you post this on TERB in 2017?
“I'll send them off with my well wishes!
Lisa and I may have had our differences, but that agency got me started in the industry and I met so many lovely women, some of whom I'm still close friends with!
I'm grateful for the experiences I had working there for the short summer years ago!”
I am grateful for my experiences working there - I never would have learned exactly what NOT to do if I hadn't worked at an agency first. And the fact that they were the only agency willing to hire plus size workers, which meant giving me a chance to get started in the biz in the first place.
You can be grateful for the experiences you have in life and what they gave you, while also not wanting to repeat those same experiences or bringing awareness to them so they aren't repeated.
As much as Pink Kitty treated its workers terribly, they did teach me a lot and I wouldn't have learned the ins and outs of the industry as quickly as I had(which ultimately gave me a good leg up when going independent) if I haven't started with PK and met the providers and clients there that I had.
I still see some of those same clients almost eight years later, and I might never have met those people if it weren't for PK, I never would have met April or Karmin who stayed my good friends for years after, so I am grateful for that.
Also, at the time when I made the post in 2017, Pink Kitty was not fully finished yet.
Lisa had tracked me down and threatened me in the past when I worked independently, so truthfully my 2017 response would be more along the lines of trying to say how I really feel, while also putting a PR spin on it so it doesn't make the agency sound bad and give them cause to come after me.
I did my best to speak up about what happened with the agency when able to, but I did not feel safe being truly honest in public about it until I was fully sure the agency was done.
And under no circumstances do I want to tarnish the fond memories any guys have with their interactions with Pink Kitty - the girls I worked with were lovely and so much fun!
The best way to think of it is like a store you go to visit all the time, the employees are always so amazing and caring and you love going there because of that, but then you find out the company was actually not a great one, it mistreated its employees, and tried to take advantage of customers whenever possible.. You wouldn't think badly of the employees who always make your shopping experiences so pleasant right?
We all had a blast working there when I was there, the girls were always great, it just sort of sucks that management wasn't great, but that doesn't mean we need to bash PK, more just have a critical eye on the management and their actions.
Celebrate the women who made that agency a great one!
I'll do a little write up on some of the goods and bads of my time with Pink Kitty later today, I'll throw some fun stuff in there too so it's not all bad
The best way to think of it is like a store you go to visit all the time, the employees are always so amazing and caring and you love going there because of that, but then you find out the company was actually not a great one, it mistreated its employees, and tried to take advantage of customers whenever possible.. You wouldn't think badly of the employees who always make your shopping experiences so pleasant right?
We all had a blast working there when I was there, the girls were always great, it just sort of sucks that management wasn't great, but that doesn't mean we need to bash PK, more just have a critical eye on the management and their actions.
Celebrate the women who made that agency a great one!
I'll do a little write up on some of the goods and bads of my time with Pink Kitty later today, I'll throw some fun stuff in there too so it's not all bad
