My question is directed to those who have left their employment with a severance package. Essentially I am in a situation where my employer has told me that we can mutually agree to end our relationship and that I should propose a package.......in other words I can negotiate a goodbye deal. My immediate thoughts are 24 months lump sum payout, 1 year of additional pension credit, bridiging for 16 months until early CPP. Continuation of health and dental until retiree benefit kicks in. Immediate pension commencement with out penalty..........its a negotiation I know but I also know the lump sum is what I would get for severance without cause. This is reasonable so please add from your experience things I should consider. My first thoughts are things are cool and no need yet for a lawyer but that is something I can do if needed.
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reasoned advice needed
- Thread starter brocko
- Start date
I have a couple of questions:
1) That's one HELL of a package. Typically one can expect one week of severance for every year of employment and NO continuation of benefits. My question is: how long have you been with this company?
2) How old are you? (this benefits until retirement would scare the hell out of me as an employer)
3) What position are you currently in? (board member,executive, manager, supervisor...)
1) That's one HELL of a package. Typically one can expect one week of severance for every year of employment and NO continuation of benefits. My question is: how long have you been with this company?
2) How old are you? (this benefits until retirement would scare the hell out of me as an employer)
3) What position are you currently in? (board member,executive, manager, supervisor...)
tboy said:I have a couple of questions:
1) That's one HELL of a package. Typically one can expect one week of severance for every year of employment and NO continuation of benefits...
tboy, I assume you are a US based employee and brocko is a Canada based employee. I am not an expert but from a casual viewpoint Canadian employment laws are more similar to European than to USA. Severance and retirement packages are much more fitting towards an employee as a person.
The only thing I would add is reinforce danmand's and Moraff's statements that you should consult professional advice while time is on your side. Oh and see if you can work in a SP clause until you are fully severed.
thank you for your responses. I have met with an actuary, have the name of a lawyer to call but thus far reluctant. I am just an employee but with many years of service. It is a negotiation and my wish list although some of it is easy to get. Here is what someone recently told me and that is one's job is that persons biggest asset on a go forward basis and to lose that job is a significant event both financially and also in so many personal ways. I know from others how difficult it is to replace one's job and for someone in their fifties it could be ........"would you like fries with that drink?" Thanks again.
For one, I am Canadian and every time I parted ways with a company (one of them a HUGE corporation...well, by canada's standards lol) the basic severance package was 1 week per year of service. I think there are some rules on the ministry of labour website. By law, that is only what they have to offer. Now many corporations will give you more than the minimum and some even triple the minimum to avoid any legal messes because NO one wins in those cases....well, you may get more than they offer but you'll spend lots in legal fees and lawyers are THE best at taking your money.
I take it from your post above that a) you're not management and b) you're in or close to your fifties? As for "many years of service" that is ambiguous. Many to some is 5 yrs, many to others is 25 yrs. Now if you've been there for 25 yrs, you've got some bargaining power. If you've been there for 5 or 10, hmmm not so much.
Here's a page with more info:
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/selfhelp/shk_w-severance.html
and another good page in regards to notice of severance
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/factsheets/fs_termination.html
Many companies will give a person payment in lieu of notice. For eg: instead of keeping you on for 8 weeks (if you've worked for them for 10 yrs +) they will let you finish the week and pay you 7 weeks wages and have you leave immediately.
Now if you're simply being replaced because the boss wants to hire his nephew, you may have a leg to stand on for wrongful dismissal or if the position has changed so dramatically that you are no longer qualified and there are other positions available that you ARE qualified for.
Anyhow, talk to a labour attorny, they will best advise you (hopefully)......
I take it from your post above that a) you're not management and b) you're in or close to your fifties? As for "many years of service" that is ambiguous. Many to some is 5 yrs, many to others is 25 yrs. Now if you've been there for 25 yrs, you've got some bargaining power. If you've been there for 5 or 10, hmmm not so much.
Here's a page with more info:
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/selfhelp/shk_w-severance.html
and another good page in regards to notice of severance
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/factsheets/fs_termination.html
Many companies will give a person payment in lieu of notice. For eg: instead of keeping you on for 8 weeks (if you've worked for them for 10 yrs +) they will let you finish the week and pay you 7 weeks wages and have you leave immediately.
Now if you're simply being replaced because the boss wants to hire his nephew, you may have a leg to stand on for wrongful dismissal or if the position has changed so dramatically that you are no longer qualified and there are other positions available that you ARE qualified for.
Anyhow, talk to a labour attorny, they will best advise you (hopefully)......
I agree with Tboy...
...more details are needed.
Every time I left a company I was offered a package. In most cases I negotiated something better.
The 1 week per month guideline Tboy gave is a good one - I've never received less than that, and frequently negotiated more. In one instances I was with the company a year...and negotiated a eight month package...but only after being paid to negotiate for 2+ months. n another instances I was given 2 months after being on board for a little over three months...plus i was given the signing bonus I negotiated in the original offer.
One of the things you will want to ask for is outplacement assistance - even if you never plan to go back to work. Often these consultants can help with retirement planning. Ask for a very robust package...at minimum one that last for the same "period" as your severance (even if you take lump sum).
Speaking of which, I'd be careful about taking a lump sum...the tax implications are ENORMOUS. You can negotiate that your pension payments and other pension benefits begin immediately. You can also negotiate that your termination be handled in such away that your EI can begin ASAP (it all comes down to the terminology used for the financial consideration you are given. If you do not call it salary...then you are eligable for EI right away. People...usually higher management...negotiate to have their pension plans altered to reflect a severance all the time...more years added, higher base salary calculation, etc.).
I would also ask for job skills training to either be provided by the company via direct payment to a 3rd party, or that they cover the cost of training to research and secure on your own. I have received that in a severance package as well.
Final suggestion....if you are here then you know how to use the internet. Research, research, research. Research until you are blue in the face, so that you can discover what other things to ask for. Determine what it is you want, then talk to a GOOD lawyer (most are hacks, who will just piss off your employer). Do not be afraid to spend 1500 - 2000 dollars on just a couple hours of good advice from a TOP NOTCH law firm...if I read you correctly, you are talking about a package possibly worth a few hundred thousand dollars, so be smart. Discuss with your lawyer if their negotiating on your behalf would be better....it has pros and cons (pros...company knows you mean business...con...things are no longer "friendly") so you will have to really give this some thought. In either event though you want to TALK to a lawyer so you know your rights, and so that you can say "my lawyer thinks", even if they never become engaged.
...more details are needed.
Every time I left a company I was offered a package. In most cases I negotiated something better.
The 1 week per month guideline Tboy gave is a good one - I've never received less than that, and frequently negotiated more. In one instances I was with the company a year...and negotiated a eight month package...but only after being paid to negotiate for 2+ months. n another instances I was given 2 months after being on board for a little over three months...plus i was given the signing bonus I negotiated in the original offer.
One of the things you will want to ask for is outplacement assistance - even if you never plan to go back to work. Often these consultants can help with retirement planning. Ask for a very robust package...at minimum one that last for the same "period" as your severance (even if you take lump sum).
Speaking of which, I'd be careful about taking a lump sum...the tax implications are ENORMOUS. You can negotiate that your pension payments and other pension benefits begin immediately. You can also negotiate that your termination be handled in such away that your EI can begin ASAP (it all comes down to the terminology used for the financial consideration you are given. If you do not call it salary...then you are eligable for EI right away. People...usually higher management...negotiate to have their pension plans altered to reflect a severance all the time...more years added, higher base salary calculation, etc.).
I would also ask for job skills training to either be provided by the company via direct payment to a 3rd party, or that they cover the cost of training to research and secure on your own. I have received that in a severance package as well.
Final suggestion....if you are here then you know how to use the internet. Research, research, research. Research until you are blue in the face, so that you can discover what other things to ask for. Determine what it is you want, then talk to a GOOD lawyer (most are hacks, who will just piss off your employer). Do not be afraid to spend 1500 - 2000 dollars on just a couple hours of good advice from a TOP NOTCH law firm...if I read you correctly, you are talking about a package possibly worth a few hundred thousand dollars, so be smart. Discuss with your lawyer if their negotiating on your behalf would be better....it has pros and cons (pros...company knows you mean business...con...things are no longer "friendly") so you will have to really give this some thought. In either event though you want to TALK to a lawyer so you know your rights, and so that you can say "my lawyer thinks", even if they never become engaged.
